Still working on letter, but this morning got a call from Westcott on behalf of RBS re Lombard credit card. I said they had sent a totally unenforceable agreement as they would see from my letter. Under CCA 1974, etc........ I said I had taken legal advice on it. This horrible girl said it was a blanket agreement for all their customers so if I was saying my agreement was unenforceable then it would be the same for all their other customers. (That would be good news for all their other customers, wouldn't it? I said it wasn't a blanket agreement, it was a copy of MY agreement (if we are calling it that) that had been sent, and it had no prescribed terms on it at all, and she accused me of misquoting her, and that she hadn't said a blanket agreement. I asked her to repeat what she had said, and she refused, and accused me of interrupting her, misquoting her, etc. I said I am asking you very politely again to repeat what you have said, and she refused again, said I should leave it to my solicitors - I didn't mention solicitors! - and hung up on me!!!! She was very cross. She may have said 'blank' agreement I realized afterwards, so maybe they are currently sending out lots of those. DD

Hi Tosh, This morning I received my "copy of your original Barclaycard Credit Agreement at the time you opened your account." Except I didnt. I received one sheet of photcopied "Barclaycard Conditions of Use (copy for you to retain)". There is nothing about me at all, no name, address, signature, nothing. They tell me they have completed their obligation to me under Section 78 of the CCA 1974. I don't think so. Will start my own thread. DD

Nasty, wicked people. They are absolute bullies who frightened the life out of me - before I found CAG, of course. They wanted an extra £1000 on top of the amount they said I owed Amex. I got rid of them by contacting CCCS who immediately gave me a reference number and when I gave this to AIC they shut up immediately. They don't like being monitored by third parties. Then CCA'd Amex who sent questionable agreement which I am still trying to work out. Last week I got a letter from RMA Resolve, saying they wanted to work with me on behalf of Amex. The £1000 had disappeared from what they are now saying they are claiming. AIC are in it to make extortionate amounts of money for themselves. They scream, threaten and deliberately frighten people with bankruptcy, the lot, and as SH has said it's all a load of wind. I offered £840 which was all I could scrape together by not paying the mortgage, child allowance, everything, and they refused it - saying it was the lot or they would start court proceedings. A month later, after I'd sent in the CCA request they phoned saying they would like that £840. "Too late," I said. "I've paid someone else." and I am so glad they got absolutely zilch from me. Be strong with them. DD

That is such good news, GM. Well done. DDxx

Actually I just threatened Debitas this evening. I said if they ever called me again while the account was in dispute I would report them to FOS, OFT, the world, etc. Got told again they had sent the agreement two months ago. "No - that was just my name and address under the words 'Application form' and a signature box referring to 23 overleaf". Could I ring Capone? She would give me the number. "No, I can't. I've already spoken to dozens of people at Capone, Debitas, sent letters, and so on." She's going to ask someone to send the agreement. What gets me here is that there must be dozens, if not hundreds, of us all having these conversations with Capone and saying we're not going to pay, account in dispute, etc., and clearly we are all being quite firm with them, and quoting CCA 1974, etc., so why on earth are they still calling? Can they seriously expect us to say anything different? "Okay, I've told you 15 times already that this account is in dispute but, Hey, why don't I pay you something on my debit card after all?" Absolutely barking. DD

Blimey! If I get one like that I'm going to ask for the personal inspection. DD

The second page does look like it's two different bits badly stuck together. I'm very new here, so I'm sure you'll get a lot of ideas about this. Waiting for my MS 'agreement'. DD

Thank you all SOOOO much guys. I'll draft the letter and stick up here before I send it. DDxxx:)

Thank you too, Steven. We crossed in the ether!! As you'll see by what I've just posted there is absolute none of that at all!! DD

Thank you Dave and CitizenB for coming on here. The very top says: AGREEMENT FORM Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (no CARD) This agreement is made between us Lombard Bank Limited (Lombard Direct) of Lombard House, etc., EN1 1TW and you the customer. Your details are shown in part 1 below. Agreement No. xxxxxxxxxxxx Then, as above. 1-8. No mention of CARD in the signature box either. The only thing is the specified credit limit. There is no reference anywhere to the prescribed terms: a) number of repayments b) amount of repayments c) frequency and timing of repayments d) dates of repayments e) the manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable. I can only assume that if it is anywhere it is on the leaflet they keep referring to. Everything is on the one page and I have checked and double-checked that there is no reference to anything overleaf. I can't quite remember why I got this card, but I think I had a personal loan with Lombard at the time and they offered the credit card. It came with my name, address and dob typed in and I just had to tick the other bits, or not, complete mother's maiden name, and sign it and send back. It seems to be such a bad example of an agreement. I am very surprised there isn't another reference to this card anywhere on CAG. I'm thinking of just sending a letter back saying something along the lines of thanks for sending this, and confirming that this is my original agreement, etc., I am sure you are aware that it doesn't ..... prescribed terms. Obviously I'll post the letter here before I send it, but I can't think of anything else I need to do right now. They have sent what they say is the agreement so I have to go back to them, otherwise they'll probably try to sell it on. Daniella

Sorry I don't think my link works. Trying again Lombard Direct (RBS) Unenforceable Agreement DD

I'd be grateful to know if anyone thinks my 'agreement' is enforceable. I haven't got a scanner but have typed it up on my thread Lombard Direct (RBS) Unenforceable Agreement? There are no prescribed terms at all, but I have signed it. Thank you. DD

That is outrageous and I am sure one of the legal people will help you here. The signature doesn't necessarily have to be on the same page as the prescribed terms but it must be within the four corners of the agreement - it's quite clear that it can't be on a separate sheet headed terms and conditions. What a stupid judge. He has clearly ignored the evidence you gave him. Good luck with this. DD

Sam, Sorry to come in on your thread, but I have a quick question for 42man who referred me to the letter on post 47 here which I hope to adapt and use. On my thread (Lombard Direct (RBS) Unenforceable Agreement?), he asked if I had signed the form, which I have, despite the fact that there are no prescribed terms to be seen and there are references to 'the leaflet' all the way through. It's headed Agreement Form, but it's clearly the original application. With no prescribed terms within the four corners of the agreement, can it be made enforceable just because I have signed it? DD

Hello Corbeta, Someone will help you here. There are so many experts who will tell you exactly what steps to take. It's coming out that Bcard are not producing enforceable agreements. Agreements must be legible, apart from anything else and they must contain the prescribed terms, and I've read here only today that the old ones don't. It's late so you may not get an answer tonight - but you will get one. DD

Clearly they have just taken on some new staff from CapOne, and this time they are allowing them to write letters, not just make telephone calls. DD

Well, if stuff goes to the wrong address, they can deny getting it, ask you to re-send, like me, and delay things as much as they can. It's not in their interests to come to the stage where they have to admit they don't actually have an enforceable agreement. Go to the recent postings on "Why you shouldn't use Section 77/78 if you want the signed agreement." and you will see that Barclaycard seems to be having problems coming up with the agreements, so if they know they haven't got the right agreements they are really going to be piling the pressure on.

Fuzzybobble has given you the letter to write. If you are really concerned they might turn up in the next day or so you can email them - they don't put their telephone number on the letter - have you noticed? Their email is [email protected] I sent this: Dear Sirs, Ref No. I am in receipt of your letter of 30th December auto-signed by K Hillyer. Barclaycard/Mercers are aware that this account is in dispute so I am surprised it has been passed to you. You have no right to call at my address without an appointment and I have no desire to make an appointment with you. Yours faithfully, Didn't get a response. They haven't turned up either. DD

Must let you all know. I just had a phone call from the most charming young man at Barclaycard (cashback), previously MS. He sounded an absolute sweetie and was very polite - I think he was a NewZealander, maybe South African - so I was very sweet back. He asked why I hadn't paid, and I said because they hadn't sent a copy of the CCA, and he asked if I would like the number to contact, and was sure they would send it, and understood why I hadn't been making the payments. It must be his first day!!!!! DD

Muffintop, I agree. Of course it's harassment. Until I found this site I didn't realise I could do anything about it. I wish I had kept a note of every call - there were hundreds. They are much quieter since I sent the CCAs - not completely quiet but quieter. Except that is for Capone who just carry on merrily, completely disregarding what they must not do when an account is in dispute. This is because they absolutely don't understand anything at all, as far as I can see. Thank heavens we are having a laugh about them on some of the sites. Slick. Yes, that's a good one. (Actually the top picture probably resembled me first thing this morning when the alarm rang - not a good look at all.) DD

Gosh you are lucky if they aren't chasing you every five minutes. I assume you have already told them the debt is unenforceable. Absolutely right - Goldfish was taken over by Barclays. Mercers and Calders are both part of Barclaycard. First of all you get handed over to Mercers and then Calders. They say they are working on behalf of Bcard. Actually they are both Bcard in-house. There are loads of us on this site who CCA'd Goldfish (Barclaycard) If we have had any response it's a letter containing the current Barclaycard Terms and Conditions. Then we write back and ask again for the original signed agreement and they say that under s78 they are only obliged to provide..... and imply we can't have a true copy of the original agreement. I hope they are not adding any interests or charges? While the account is in dispute they cannot do that. DD

Gosh you are lucky if they aren't chasing you every five minutes. I assume you have already told them the debt is unenforceable. Absolutely right - Goldfish was taken over by Barclays. Mercers and Calders are both part of Barclaycard. First of all you get handed over to Mercers and then Calders. They say they are working on behalf of Bcard. Actually they are both Bcard in-house. There are loads of us on this site who CCA'd Goldfish (Barclaycard) If we have had any response it's a letter containing the current Barclaycard Terms and Conditions. Then we write back and ask again for the original signed agreement and they say that under s78 they are only obliged to provide..... and imply we can't have a true copy of the original agreement. I hope they are not adding any interests or charges? While the account is in dispute they cannot do that. DD

Hello, Someone here will give you the right info about the bankruptcy side of things and how you must write to the DCAs. A lot of them threaten bankruptcy. It will depend on when your MS card was issued (like every card situation). However, you will see on the site that MS/Goldfish are now owned by Barclaycard, and a lot of us are waiting for CCAs on all of them. I have seen a copy of an MS Agreement, but that was posted about a year ago - before Barclaycard bought the lot. Go to the thread Morgan Stanley CCA -received Barclaycard terms in response. There was some very good news yesterday. I've also seen on the site that the MS applications have been destroyed - don't know whether this is true or not, but Barclaycard are not sending the GFish/MS agreements back and will try to fob you off with 'Under Section 78 ...... and say they don't have to provide a copy of the original agreement. There are updates every day so just go to search and type in Goldfish and you'll always see what has been happening in regard to responses to the CCAs, and what is happening after that.

Thanks Mikek, I applied at the beginning of November too, and obviously haven't got my CCA. Last time Calders called they said it was my fault as I had sent the second request to the wrong address (as though the BC offices in NN4 have no internal postal system!) and I had to write again. My first response was just he current T & Cs and I wrote back to the woman who had sent them at that address, but it should have been 1234 Pavilion Drive according to Calders and this is why they hadn't sent it. Yeah. They also helped themselves to a payment from my current account on the day my child allowance came in. I hadn't even paid the mortgage and they told me I had disposable income. I have just reported them to FOS, and their own complaints office, and told the woman there I was waiting for the agreement and I considered their action "spiteful". The guy at FOS was pretty appalled too. I think we need to watch this setting off. If they know they have no enforceable agreements they are going to grab what they can by whatever means they can. Glad they have been caught out here. DD

Thanks for posting the whole thing, Slick. Falling asleep. I think we need a smiley face for big yawn:) DD