I wasn't talking about the £16 charges (which were originally even higher than £16). I was talking about if you have ever been so late on payment that you have a big "D" for default on your credit file.

This is a sign that they think they will lose any claim you bring. It depends how quickly you need this sort of money, or whether you can hold out for more. I would be tempted to complain to the FOS anyway, but it could take a year by all accounts! You could also accept this money as part payment.... but knowing Egg they will want you to sign your rights away before they pay you anything. Oh yes, and don't forget to make sure that they agree to remove any defaults resulting from these PPI charges.

Great stuff and good luck. My friend did the same and she now feels in control of her own money, which is brilliant.

As a general comment - what is the point of going to court to ask a judge to rubber stamp what is already happening? (i.e. the credit cannot enforce the debt, and you both know it) What makes you think that your credit file would be amended? In what way is a default "inaccurate data"? I can understand how you might get your file sorted if they have lost the agreement, because then they have presumably also lost their evidence that you consented to any data sharing at all. But if the agreement is simply unenforceable, surely there is a powerful argument that it could still be accurate to describe your actions as a default on a credit agreement? By the way, I am not making a moral judgment here, I am just playing devils advocate and imagining how this situation could be interpreted. I am interested in the issue because it affects my friend's case. Actually it could affect me personally as well. I have a £5k credit limit with a probably unenforceable Egg Card agreement from about 2000. Can I now just go and max it out, with no fear of any repercussions, not even a default? A poor credit rating doesn't just prevent you from obtaining loans and credit cards you can't afford to pay back. It can prevent you from getting a competitive bank account, even if you never intend to use the overdraft facility. There is also the issue of not being able to get any joint financial products with a current or future partner without bringing their rating down as well.

Hi Lola Although a1b2c3 has a point, I would be very wary of simply stopping your payments. If you are disputing the payments, you really need to do this properly, sending them a dispute letter (by recorded or special delivery) and stating your reasons. The danger you are running is that, somewhere down the line, they will issue a court claim against you and suddenly produce a valid credit agreement to back it up. At that point it's very difficult to get back on a payment plan with them because they will rather get a court judgment against you so that any future payment plan is backed up by the court and cannot be stopped again. Having said that, if your debts are unenforceable, yes you can stop paying, but you need to be sure of your case.

You can definitely pay by standing order from your account. Egg have their own sort code plus the account number is, I think, your loan account number. My friend set this up for her loan when she did a DIY payment plan, and it's working fine.

I think you got the wrong end of the stick. That is very specifically for getting a copy of the original signed credit agreement from original creditors and DCAs. In that situation, you say your case is that you think the CCA is improperly executed and you are intend to apply to the court for a declaration of the rights of the parties. Or you are challenging their right to charge you PPI. Or whatever. And so you demand the agreement under CPR 31.16. With N Hunter it is just a normal SAR - like you send to the normal credit reference agencies. If I fire a CPR 31.16 off to them then they are going to (quite rightly) want to know what court action I am planning to bring against them. If I don't tell them they will ignore my request. If I then file the N244 they will seek costs against my due to unreasonable behaviour.

What template?

I'm gonna SAR them. I've never heard of these people and find it disgusting that financial institutions have potentially passed my details onto them. How do we know there aren't any other secret organisations like this that they are checking with? How can my contract with my bank be so vague? I am always hearing about the 3 credit referencing agencies, but not N Hunter Limited. Right, before I fire my letter off and line their pockets even more deeply, can anybody explain to me why they are entitled to a fee of £10 instead of only £2?

As I'm sure you have noticed from all the other threads, they have no idea what to do about this. Your main problem is the threat of a default and the damage that could cause you over the next 6 years.

We did receive a response to the original Subject Access Request and it took 52 days, including postage both ways - so only a fraction outside the limit. It finally arrived just before Christmas. Once we received the Subject Access Request and had a chance to look through it, we sent them some follow up questions - requesting recordings of sales calls, asking for an explanation of notes on our file, etc. This follow up letter has been ignored for nearly 3 months, despite a reminder being sent in the meantime.

Good Luck On Wednesday :D:D:D

Well, we've given them until mid-April to respond to letter 3. If they send the new template mentioned by DD then it will be necessary to send them a letter 4 as a new LBA. So it looks like, before we come to make our own N244 application, we'll get to see what happens with smt's case - in which the hearing is schedued for the end of April.

I will wait until we receive a copy of this latest template letter, and then decide on the next move. If they are simply putting forward further arguments as to why they are not obliged to provide a copy of the original signed agreement under CCA 1974 then fine - that is not what I am asking for. I am asking for a copy of the original agreement which bears my signature because I have lost mine, and I want to assess two aspects of a potential action against them:- 1. A declaration of the rights of parties under section 142 of CCA 1974 2. A reclaim of payment protection insurance policy premiums which were charged, and for which I believe there may not have been a contractual arrangement. That is why I want a copy of the document. It has nothing to do with section 78 of CCA 1974. My action is not about what I am entitled to under that section of the Act.

Thanks for scanning that up. It is hard to know what has gone on behind the scenes. All we know for certain is that Barclaycard have provided this extra data on your account to Experian. We don't even know if they provided it to Experian between 15 Feb to 7 March. What if they recently provided it for a whole load of customers, but Experian's "go live" date was during your 3 week period? What if the credit crisis has made credit card companies add all this extra detail onto people's credit files, and yours has suddenly got caught up in the migration process because it was already being pulled up for a manual update, and they thought - 'might as well give this one all the detail at the same time.' I do agree with you that the most likely explanation is that they updated your record but somehow screwed it up (maliciously or accidently). But you do want to be sure it isn't some kind of technical or timing mistake, potentially one caused by Experian, before you face Barclays in court. Maybe Barclays DID pass the data over to Experian on the normal date, but you have assumed that Experian immediately enter it into their database. Perhaps there is a period of several weeks during which the millions of accounts are updated gradually? Can you time things so you get another up-to-date credit report closer to the hearing date?

Right, I think we have run out of patience now. Egg have completely ignored us since 1st January. They seem content to just take £50 per month for the next 10 years but not make too much of a fuss about calling us or asking us to pay more. They have failed to respond to important questions such as: 1. Give us a copy of our loan statements so we can see what penalties we have been charged 2. Tell us how you calculated the top ups 3. Give us copies of the phone calls where you sold us the PPI 4. What the hell is "full 180pp auto accept"? I think we will start a generic PPI complaint with the FOS, mentioning that Egg have ignored our requests for information. That will lead to a letter from FOS to Egg, telling them (giving them a chance) to investigate. I think I am right in saying that this will put the account in dispute and we will be within our rights to stop paying for however long it takes FOS to make their decision. Egg have already defaulted the account, so they can hardly trash the credit file any further. Meanwhile, I follow other Egg cases with interest to see if and when we get a court decision on the section 18 multiple agreement arguments - either for the PPI elements of these loans, or for the restricted funds to pay off an Egg card elements.

Ok superg, Do you think you can remember how long you've had the Egg card? Because the type of Egg agreements changed over time. And there are a few important dates in consumer credit law that will change how you can defend yourself. Maybe you have some old bank statements that show where you paid off some of your balance? Maybe you remember where you lived when you took it out? Maybe you remember something you bought with it? Anyone you can ask? As a last resort, you could call them and ask. But, you'd have to be careful not to get into any conversations about paying the card off. (A lot of people would say absolutely NEVER speak to them on the phone.)

I am looking at an Experian credit file from last September. The Barclaycard entry is very similar to your first upload. What on earth is the 2nd upload? Do you have any other credit accounts on the report? Are they also in this ultra-expanded format? Is it possible that Barclaycard and Experian together have recently changed their credit report information to provide extra detail? (for everyone, not just you). It would seem to be an unfortunate coincidence if they have. I repeat, there is less than one month between the two credit files, they both show the same balance of £1,863, and they are both dated 4th January. That looks to me like the same entry. You have made an assumption that Barclaycard added the extra information but failed to change your balance. Maybe there is more to the story than you have assumed. If I were you I would be asking Experian why the credit report suddenly has loads more detail in it. Did they include an explanatory leaflet with the report?

I don't think we have established whether Moorcroft were acting for Egg, or whether Moorcroft bought the debt outright off Egg. If they bought it, they won't be able to pass it back. If they were just acting, and Egg use another "low life", texanbar can send the same letter to the new "low life". None of these "low lifes" want to deal with difficult cases, and texanbar will be able to collect 'give up' letters, and even frame them!

Why does the later Experian report look so different? Why is it more detailed than the first report you uploaded? Other than that, closing balance looks the same - £1,863 - and both reports say they are for the period to 4th Jan 2009. I can't see what Barclays have updated. Is it possible that Experian are simply not giving you the most recent information. As there is less than one month between the two reports, surely that would be possible. Or am I missing something?

Noomill, I can't wait to hear it. This is compulsive reading. Your single minded persistence should be an inspiration to us all.

I think you could be right Eddie, but it would be nice if they wrote the debts off properly, instead of selling them onto those total chancers we call DCAs, who will then try and hound people for the original full amounts. Having said that, we know about the puritanical views of certain sections of the press when it comes to debt, and the idea that people with a mountain of credit card will be let off the hook, whereas the responsible savers are losing out, blah blah blah. But it is probably the case that many "sub-prime" credit card customers are the very 'spenders' who could get the economy going again but who, as you say, are now the people struggling to repay the 'horrendous' debt.

[To be sent by "signed for" recorded delivery] ------- Dear Ms Garrad LETTER BEFORE ACTION Thank you for your letter dated XX March 2009, which you state that you have sent in reply to my previous letters. I note with disappointment that the most recent letter that you have sent me appears to be a standard template letter that you have sent to numerous other customers, and which in no way addresses the letters I sent to your organisation on XX January 2009 and XX February 2009. Specifically, the letter which you have sent me on XX March 2009 appears to have been written as a response where a customer has expressed dissatisfaction with documents received in response to a request made under Section 77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act. It is true that I made such a request on XX January 2009. However, I have since learned that Barclays Bank PLC have decided not to provide customers with a copy of their original signed Barclaycard agreement in this situation, and I do not intend to challenge this decision at the present time. However, I would like to remind you that my letters of XX January 2009 and XX February 2009 were NOT made persuant to section 78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 but were made pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules (Pre action protocols and Part 31.16). I have attached a second copy of my previous letters dated XX January 2009 and XX February 2009, which clearly set out why I need a copy of the original signed contract in its original form. For the avoidance of doubt, I require this document for the following reasons:- 1. I require this as I have reason to believe that there may be discrepancies within the agreement which may leave it improperly executed. 2. Because I believe that you may have charged me for payment protection insurance without my permission. Obviously if the agreement is improperly executed I would be entitled to ask the court to consider the agreement and make a declaration of the rights of parties to the agreement. Please confirm if you still hold a copy of my signed agreement and that you will provide me with this document. I do not view this as an unreasonable request given that by supplying the document which I have asked for it will allow me to assess if my case has merit and will help to resolve matters possibly without the need to involve the court and will undoubtedly save costs on both sides. In view of the circumstances I do not feel it is unreasonable to ask for this document to be disclosed. It is not commercially sensitive, nor is it a restricted document, and it should be easily accessible for an organisation such as yours. Therefore I would ask that you provide me with a copy of the contract which bears my signature. I require the complete document with all its parts. Since this matter is likely to be subject to proceedings, and given that your organisation is likely to be a defendant in any action which would be brought by me, I must draw your attention to Civil Procedure Rules part 31.16(3)©&(D), which gives the court the power to order you to disclose this document to me. The disclosure of these documents will allow me to consider any claim I may have against your organisation and will allow for the matter to be dealt with possibly without the need for costly litigation. Therefore I again ask that you provide me with the documents which I have previously requested. I do not consider this request unreasonable and therefore if you fail to comply with my request I will be left no option but to make an application to XXXXXXXX County Court for an order made under the provisions of CPR 31.16 ordering you to disclose the documents which I have requested. Additionally I will ask the court to make an order for my costs in bringing this application and reserve the right to disclose all communications in this matter before the court should such an application become necessary. Please confirm by no later than 4pm on XX April 2009 [giving at least 21 days plus postage] that you will comply with my request or, if you will not comply, please provide your reasons in writing. Yours sincerely XXXXXXXXXX [printed not signed]

Think identity theft.

Hi superg, That's great, we still have a week to get something together. They are hoping you don't understand the court process so that they can just win by default. But now you have CAG on your side We are going to get an amazing defence together before the end of next week.