Hi CB, I kind of got the impression that they were waiting on Santander. Do they not give them a time limit with which to respond in? Bel

Got another letter from FOS saying that they are still waiting for paperwork from Santander so I believe that's about 4 or 5 weeks over the 12 that they had originally stated. Is that the norm? Bel

Thanks Andy. I'll let them continue adding interest to the unfair interest that they have already added on the unfair fees then shall I ;o) Have a great weekend! Bel

Hi All, Hope you all had a good summer - don't quite know where the time has gone! Anyway, the FOS wrote to us in August that they would need at least 12 weeks to investigate our complaint and write back to us with their decision and we haven't heard anything else since from either them or Santander. However today, we received from Santander a Notice of Arrears sums showing the balloon payment for the car. Does this mean the FOS have given them a heads up on their decision? As we instigated the complaint, should we be the first to be notified of their decision? Is this a computer generated letter? Thanks guys, Bel

Hi DX, Have written to the FOS and also sent a copy of the letter to SCF. In it I have pointed out the interest on the duplicated late payment fees that were never refunded and the implications on the overall balance, the adding of the late payment fees including them as arrears (double checked and went boss eyed on the calculator - they 110% have added everything together, put it on the DN and called it arrears!). I mentioned the ICO's pdf that you referred me to as well as the CCA 1978 and Woodchester & Swain I also stated that SCF should have done more to ensure my rights were properly protected if they felt the agreement was to continue by formalising something in writing or advisiing me to get additional legal advice, something which they obviously didn't. I finished off by asking for the return of the interest on the duplicated payments +8% Having just received a letter giving me 5 days to pay up or else, I have also asked the FOS to get SCF to halt any legal action whilst this is being investigated. So we will see what comes out in the wash! I am more than happy for this to go to court as I know I am right and that if keep on digging, I'll uncover the cock ups that I believe SCF to be trying to cover up. Thank you for your help and advice as well as 42man and CitizenB - I'll keep you posted. Bel

Thanks DX, Could you just clarify the following for me? As I have been refunded the duplicated late payment fees how/why should I claim back all the fees? Or do you mean the interest that wasn't refunded on the overpayment? What are your thoughts on my contention that as the interest charged on the duplicated late payment fees wasn't refunded, on its own make any DN incorrect? Many thanks, Bel

Will do! Thanks again CB, Bel

Just had a brainwave. SCF have agreed that on numerous occassions they duplicated late payment fees on more than one occassion. Having checked our paperwork, including the last time it's been at least 3 times. They refunded the over charged amount but it dawned on me that they had calculated interest on the whole amount which included the fees. They have never refunded me the interest that was charged on the late payment fees. Therefore, the amounts quoted on the DN and TN include incorrect fees so as far as I can see, there is no issue as to the fact the original DN is defective. What do you think? Bel

One quick one - is there a specific part of the CCA that relates to what can and can't be included in the calculations when creating a DN notice? As my whole argument rests on this, I would like to quote the act specifically if I can. Cheers, Bel

Hi CB, No we wouldn't agree to re-formalise the agreement! As I see it, we have absolutely nothing to lose so might as well go for it - just want to make sure that we have everything stacked up to go in our favour as much as possible. Thanks again for you and 42man's help. Will write tomorrow and keep you posted with the outcome. Bel

Have just taken a quick read and it is very interesting. My main question though is this. In paying the arrears as requested by SCF after termination have I agreed to it's reinstatement? Or is my argumentat that we paid them to stretngthen our position as we paid the arrears at termination sufficient? Hope that makes sense?? Also should re-instatement be formal - ie letter in writing etc to say 'this agreement has now been reinstatement. Did you know that Mr Customer, and are you aware of the ramifications of such?' or the like? Thanks Bel

My thoughts and contention exactly. Logically, it doesn't stack up. Even if they did try to un-terminate, to do so would need our agreement/signature on a new credit agreement surely??? But hard cold facts are what will win this so I will await your response! Thanks again CB Bel

To clarify, the arrears were paid AFTER the agreement was terminated

Thanks CB, In writing to both bodies, do I ask them to get SCF to answer all my points fully and completely and leave it at that or do I ask them to confirm my belief that that as they terminated on a defective DN, as we paid the arrears and fees at the time of the TN, they have no recourse to claim any further payment for the car? They said that if we paid the arrears, they would let the agreement continue however, we had nothing in writing to confirm that the agreement was un-terminated or that it was running again. But they still haven't answered my question as to how a terminated agreement can be un-terminated. If they could do that willy nilly, everyone would surely be shafted all the time. Further, the new DN that they have sent includes late payment fees as does the TN. I think the main point that I need to be sure on is the re-instatement of the agreement after a dodgy DN and TN and see if there are already any legal cases that can be used as an example. Do you know of any!??! Thanks, bel

Hi Guys, Finally have some movement and wanted to get your advice before we now right to the FOS. We decided to pay the outstanding arrears at the time as we thought that if we were correct in that the DN and subsequent TN were incorrect, we would be in a better position to argue our position if it goes to court. SCF still did not officially acknowledge or respond to our first complaint or confirmed in writing that the agreement was 'un-terminated' and we heard nothing until about a month ago, when we had another default notice for the balloon payment. We wrote saying we were still waiting for a response and acknowledgement to our original complaint but here's another complaint letter for you anyway. We again laid out our reasons as to why we believe the two DN's they sent were incorrect and the subsequent TN unenforceable. We made our payment for the SAR and also requested a CPR 31.14 as legal action was threatened. We got our acknowledgement and a week or so later got a response simply confirming the basics of what had logistically happened. There was no response to or evidence to back up why they were right and we were wrong on the defective DN's. Further, they wrote in their response that we had asked them if we could pay half the fees which is a downright lie. They did not state the letter was their final response so we wrote back asking them to answer our questions fully by investigating our concerns properly. We also stated that the agent who said we had made the offer was lying and we wanted that investigated in full too. We pointed out that the DCA was at pains to say that all calls are recorded and that any transcript will be able to confirm what actually was said. We have yet to receive a reply to that letter, but in the meantime, we have received another termination notice and today a letter saying we have 5 days to pay otherwise collection action will start. The letter received today broke the amount down as £10000 + £500 fees owing. yet the DN and TN both show a combined figure of £10,500 The SAR is not complete and does not include the information we asked for which was copies of the DN's and original TN. Nor does it include a copy of the communication between SCF and CSL as well as the requested recordings/ transcripts. The screen printout supplied only shows one DN, no subsequent DN or TN at all which I find most surprising as if neither were issued, why was the account passed to CSL. Again, transcripts of the phone calls and communication between SCF and CSL would show this. It also showed late payments of £20 and £25 - same description but different figures sometimes twice in a month. Having looked through our pile of documentation, there's nothing in there from SCF saying that they were upping/changing the fees. If I didn't know better, I'd think that information was being doctored! Is there something that I can ask for for them to double check and let me know? I am about to write to SCF again asking them to supply ALL the information that was asked for as per my SAR and will also enclose a copy of the letter to the FOS which is what is leading me to my question. From experience, I know that the FOS will only give you the answer that you want, if ask them to become involved to decide on a particular aspect of your complaint. I suppose a focussed request is the term I'm looking for. I believe that SCF has messed up on so many points that they have no legal right to take further action to take back the car. What should I be asking the FOS to strengthen my position so that they agree with me? SCF have also suggested that I refer my complaint to the Finance & Leasing Association. If I do, can I simply copy the letter I write to the FOS or will that need to be written from a different perspective? Would really welcome your insight to this as I feel they are doing their best to shaft me, trying to hide their mess ups and want to make sure that at the very least, I'm armed well enough to give them a good bop on the nose! many thanks, Bel

Hi Conniff, The charges are because I was OD and payments were bounced. This was on an authorised OD. In some cases they charged £25 for bouncing a £3 Paypal payment. My point is, if they are not keeping to the legal contract that we are both bound by, do I have a legal argument to reclaim the fees where they have not written to me within the timescale that their T&C's set out? BankFodder - again, if they get vindictive, is there action that I can take?? Thanks Guys, Bel

Hi Bankfodder, It's cahoot Have you found them to be vindictive? Thanks Bel

Just a quick question, Whilst checking my banks T&C's over various other cock ups that I feel they have done, I read that they would write to me within 2 workings days if they do not honour payments due to insufficient funds etc. My bank has not done this for about three years - all I get is a letter once a month or the other way I find out is by checking my account or the recipient sends me a letter to say that the payment has failed. As they have failed to keep to their own T&C's, is there any recourse for me to go back to them and claim the charges back? We have a legal agreement - the CCA of which their T&C's form part of that agreement. If they haven't kept to it, on that particular point would I have strong argument to ask for those charges to be refunded? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on that? many thanks, Bel

Just a word of warning for anyone who may be about to buy foreign currency with their debit card. Last year, I bought Euros at the Post Office using my cahoot debit card. The following day, I had a transaction decline and was suprised as I thought I had plenty of cash in the account. On checking the account, I worked out as well as seeing the Post Office transaction on my statement, there was an equal amount pending. I contacted cahoot who at first said it the Post Office's fault. The Post Office said it wasn't. I was then sent from pillar to post before it actually dawned on me that if I had only entered my PIN once, I have effectively only given permission once, so what was cahoot doing taking it twice and telling me that I had to wait until it dropped off. When I approached them with this fact, they went away and came back saying sometimes on currency transactions, the amount is duplicated to cover for currency fluctuations and this is what happened. They extended my overdraft to cover for the amount and I thought nothing of it. Until this week, when after buying currency last week again using my cahoot debit card, exactly the same thing happened. Except that it completely cleaned out our account when the systems updated on Saturday evening leaving us with no money over the weekend. To say I was spitting feathers is an understatement and a strongly worded email to them elicited an apology, a further extension of our overdraft and a further payment of £150 to say sorry. They gave exactly the same reasons as they did last year which would give me the impression last year wasn't a one off and that this is the norm. They have told me to double check my account the next time I do any transactions like this and if the same happens again, they will make the funds available so I am not out of pocket. I will be getting back to them to make sure that they don't charge me interest on the additional overdraft that I didn't ask for and will still write to the FOS as this seems bang out of order but thought I would flag this up to other CAGgers so that you don't find yourselves in the same situation as I did this week. I don't know if buying with a credit card gives you the same problems but buying currency with a credit card is effectively the same as taking cash out on it so you will probably be hammered with cash withdrawal charges as well as currency conversions. I suppose that this another way that the banks a making profits! Be warned!! Bel

CB what you say makes perfect sense - thank you. I've also noticed on the letter received today that they are stating that the arrears are now £250 less than that shown on the DN and verbally by Credit Style so something is not adding up here. Bel

Sorry CB, only just noticed your other post. I received the DN, wrote to them with a customer complaint, heard nothing and then got the Termination Notice. Credit Style then contacted us and said that they would get SCF to confirm in writing what he had just told me. We assumed that it would also respond to our complaint but it hasn't. SCF have another 4 weeks to respond to our complaint but the letter received today states that if we don't pay the amount now (arrears and fees), they will ask Credit Style to return the case to them and start legal action for the return of the car. My feeling is to write to them stating that from the statements we have received that we still feel that the discount they have given us (good will gesture or otherwise) is incorrect as there many months where more than one fee was levied. In the same letter ask for a response to our letter of complaint sent and received by them as well as enclose a SAR. If SCF were 100% sure of their position I find it hard to believe that they would happily waive 50% of fees that they feel are/were legitimate??? Bel

Ok, that's one down! My next point in my letter of complaint to them was that the figures stated in the DN were incorrect as they included late payment fees that shouldn't have been levied (they added 3 in one calender month for example). They have subsequently sent a statement that shows that they are still calculating the outstanding amount with these fees. Even though they have broken the fees and the payments down separately, they have added the money that we have paid and then taken the fees and payments that we missed away from that and called the balance outstanding from the calculation, the arrears. What can I/should I do to confirm that this is correct and if so, does this make the DN defective? Thanks CB, Bel

Not yet, we were about to send it and then got into the conversation with Credit Style and thought we would wait until SCF finally wrote to us. The letter doesn't even acknowledge our complaint of the defective DN or the incorrect charges that their statement clearly shows they have levied or the fact thay he said to Credit Safe that our argument has no basis Taking my posts of the 8th and 12th into consideration, what would your next steps be DX? Thanks, Bel

Hi, have just received a letter from SCF confirming the conversation with Credit Style. It states that if we clear the arrears as a gesture of goodwill, they will write off half the late payment fees and allow the agreement to continue. Am I missing something here or have SCF realised that they have messed up? What are my rights if I agree to this bearing in mind they have already terminated on the back of what I think is a defective DN? What are my rights if I don't agree to this? Thanks, Bel

Hi Again, I think that SCF have dropped a big one. received a statement this morning that clearly shows that the later payment charges are included in the arrears amount. They also show that in a number of months, that they charged multiple late payment charges in one month even though there was only one contractual payment due. As I see it, these are the facts of the situation 1. The original DN was defective due to the date of service and the incorrect amounts on it 2. They terminated the agreement even though they had not responded to our customer complaint which they have subsequently acknowledged receiving 3. They have never directly responded to my customer complaint re the incorrect late payment charges and defective DN 4. They then sent a letter asking for the arrears only after the TN 5. They have now sent another statement after acknowledging receipt of my complaint stating they have overcharged me, showing that they are still overcharging me We have yet to receive the letter from them as per the conversation with the DC - unless what we received in the post today was it! - but we intent to write on Monday with a SAR. As legal action has also been threatened, I would also like to send a CPR request. Knowing that there are many different types, in this situation, what would you suggest is the best one to send? My feeling is, is that having terminated on the back of a defective DN, I believe that they have no right to ask for the balance owing on the car, only the outstanding arrears up to the termination. Based on what I have put here, would you agree with that assumption? If so, what exactly should my course of action be to back that up? Many thanks, Bel