Hi All, Have been away for a while and come back to cool looking CAG website. Who ever did the work - well done! Anyway I hope that all is well with you all? Just got back in to receive another letter from Restons. In short, they have said that they hold the true agreement and have supplied another copy for me. They confirm that it was double sided and that it includes the T&C's after which the signature box is situated.. It also states that as the bank did not ask me to sign a prospective credit agreement and hence Sec 59 of the act has no application. It also states the following "Below the signature box (0n the doc that you signed) appears the following wording: 'This agreement is also subject to the Card Conditions of Use, which accompany it and the reference to conditions in this agreement are references to conditions in the card conditions of use'. There is no requirement for the card conditions of use to be physically contained in the document which you signed - reference to them satisfies the requirements under the act. A proforma of these t&c's is included in this letter and as you will see, clause 2.6 of the card conditions of use, sets the assumptions involved in the calculation of the total charge for credit. The enclosures to this letter demonstrate the credit agreement was properly executed within the meaning if the act and the purpose of this letter is to formally request you to withdraw your defence and concede the claim. Continuation of these proceedings will increase legal costs which our client will seek full recovery of (in accordance with its contractual rights) in the event it succeeds" Firstly, there is no response to my last letter in which I pointed out that PPI is included in the amounts that they are attempting to recover and neither has the OC responded so far to my request for a transcript of the alleged conversation. Secondly, they have not responded to my 'res judicata' letter. Guys, I would appreciate your thoughts as to the best and most effective way to respond. many thanks, Bel

Hi Dicky, I know! What they also haven't answered or thought of, is if I knew I had it at the time, when I was made redundant, why didn't I use it instead of getting into the mess that I did? Still waiting to hear back from them but I don't suppose that they are going to make it easy for me even at this stage. Bel

Hi Guys, Just received a letter from the court with the Judge replying 'No direction is needed' and that the letter has been placed on the court file. If you remember I had sent her a copy of the Res Judicata letter that was sent to Restons. What exactly does that all mean? Cheers, Bel

Hi Guys, Already done even though they said that they won't respond as they believe the matter to be closed. I'll just make sure that I enclose a copy with my complaint to the FOS. Anyway, thanks again - have a great weekend. No doubt the forums will be like a ghost town on Sunday at 3!

Hi DD, That's what I thought. In my letter I had asked for proof that they had been this thorough and they have not supplied it. The computer printout supplied does not contain the details of the alleged conversation as if it had taken place and they had asked me the right questions it would have been apparant that the policy would not pay out as I knew I was about to be made redundant. Also, there is nothing to confirm when and if the Welcome Pack was actually received. What are you thoughts on the DN's? Cheers, Bel

Hi Guys, Have just heard back from the OC re the PPI and they have not (surprisingly) upheald my complaint. They say that their records show that it was applied following a conversation I had with their customer services on XX August 1999. Apparently a welcome pack was sent to me setting out the benefits etc and giving me a cooling off period and the option to cancel. I have looked through th einformation from their Ceasar system and there is an entry there for the date in August headed up PPI but no details of any allegded conversation. They say that when I fell into arrears with the card, surely wouldn't I have noticed the premiums coming out? Anyway, I had asked for proof that they had done their due dilligence and they haven't supplied it. They have said that they will not respond further and that I should now complain to FOS. Obvioulsy I will, but are there any other pointers that you can give? Also looking at the first DN, it states that I have to pay the arrears by a certain date, if I don't, on that date they will terminate the agreement and that I will need to pay £xxxx being the outstanding balance at that time on that date. Interest and charges were still added up the next DN received 7 months later. Noting the court papers, the amount shown as the default amount is the amount shown on the second DN notice not the first. Where exactly does that leave me as I'm sure Restons will come back ASAP after the OC's PPI response? Can they restart court action using the first DN if my complain to the FOS re the PPI isn't upheld? Obviously I also have proof with envelopes etc that both DN's are defective but I'm looking at the worst case scenario. Cheers, Bel

Vint, I had used your advice in my letter especially with regards to seeing that they had advised or questioned me adequately about PPI. Maybe that's what they are taking instructions about as I pointed out that it is relevant to the agreement. Bel

Hi Guys, Just got a letter from Restons advising me that they are 'taking instruction' and will get back to me asap in response to my res judicata letter. I had sent a copy with a covering letter to the judge as well. The OC has finally responded to my PPI claim and advised that they will respond to me within 10 working days. Not too sure what it all means but lets see what comes out in the wash. Will keep you posted. Bel

Hi Guys, I'm sorry that I had not responded to the lats few posts - I didn't know that they were there as I hadn't got a 'reply to thread' message. Finally some movement! No response to my 'Res Judicata' letter however the following arrived in the post yesterday! Without prejudice save as to costs We refer to youe letter dated XXXXXX The question of PPI is not pleaded in your defence and on that basis there is no requirement for the claimant to refer to it when dealing with your CPR31.14 request With regard to your query regarding the default notice, a recreated copy of this enclosed. We are instructed that this was posted to ou on the date of issue. A termination notice was not isuused, such a notice is not required. Further it is sufficient for the claimant to show that a default notice was issued, it doe not have to prove service. Accordingly, we are instructed to consider Summary Judgment proceedings Notwithstanding theh above our client does not wish this matter to be prolonged further and accordingly we invite you to contact this office with your proposals for settlement. The recreated DN is very interesting to say the least! It is dated for eg 13th February 2008 yet the date to comply by is July 2009! One point at a time. 1. Yes I missed the PPI of my original defence but there is no law to state that it cannot be added at a later date especially if it has such an importablnt bearing on the ovearll case? As the Judge had been lenient with Restons, it would be unfair of her to be that unreasonable to me as to not allow it? 2. Having issued a CPR31.14 request for the information whether I mentioned it in my defence or not, they should still supply that information right? 3. Considering the dates of the recreated one are so messeed up, do I ignore it or not or just laugh my head off! I have the envelopes for every piece of mail that they have sent to me and it is all UKMail. They continued to add PPI and interest welll after the first DN until just after the second DN almost 8 months later. Can I have your thoughts? Thank you, Bel

Hi Supasnooper, Wow - I don't know that! I've just read the thread you linked to with great interest. So in short, even though they have supplied the agreement, because it was out of the time limit that the judge set for them to produce, their claim has more or less been thrown out and they would need to start again from scratch? I will draft a letter to send to Restons, but think I will also reference the other issues regarding the DN and PPI in the letter too. Would you suggest that I write to the court or sit and wait to see what comes in the post? Cheers, Bel

Sorry to confuse CB! I have got all the statements from the start and had made no payments on the account since well before the first DN and nothing since then. They were still adding the PPI premiums right up to the second DN was issued too. Thanks for the SOS's. I'll sit tight and see what advice comes my way. Thanks again, Bel

I should refresh before I press send! I haven't heard back from the court yet, just the letter from Restons with the agreement attached and saying contact us within 7 days to arrange payment. Because they had not provided the agreement originally, I based my argument primarily on that, which with hindsight, was not too clever as if I had gone through everything like I am doing now, we probably could have put this to bed a long time ago. I had intended to apply to the court to have the agreement ruled as unenforcable but am waiting to see what Restons do next. Seeing the hand that I have at the moment, what would you suggest I do next? Sit and wait or go for it? Cheers, bel

Hi cb, This is what I had sent to SB which kind of explains my thought process. Hope it helps, Bel I received two DN's from the OC - one dated 20th August 2008 and the other 10th March 2009 - and like you have the envelopes to both which clearly show they were posted by UKMail so not 1st RM. In addition, both state that my agreement date was 4th September 2005 but now that we have the signed agreement, we can clearly see that it was 25th July 2005. The amounts quoted on both DN's include PPI which I dispute as I knew that I was about to be made redundant therefore making the PPI null and void. On the rear of each DN, it states that if I don't do as the DN states that John Lewis WILL not may, but will terminate the agreement and issue proceedings if I don't pay the full amount owing. I have received a final notice dated 23rd February 2009 but no termination notice as such. I have sent by special delivery 3 CPR31.14 requests to the OC and 2 to Restons all of which have been ignored and included within that CPR request were original copies of the default notices and terminatation notices and how they were sent. So where I am coming from is this The DN's where not sent by 1st class mail therefore the dates to remedy the default were wrong The dates of the agreement were wrong The amounts are wrong as they include PPI that was not asked for and compound interest charges If the agreement was terminated on 6th September 2008 as per their DN to me, how can they continue to add charges and interest for a further 7 months until they issue another DN in March 2009? How can Restons justify collection charges of £1880? Should PPI not have been included on the agreement that I signed as there is nothing there at all for it - no tick box, no statement to say that I have asked for it etc So how is the best way to play it with Restons? I want to give them enough rope and feel that I have the right ammunition but need to make sure I lob these at them in the right way - and that's what I am scared of mucking up. My initial reaction is to write to them again saying that I will not be making any offer of any payment on the agreement, demanding for the 5th time that they comply with my CPR31.14 request to see what they cough up with the DN and TN. Also reminding them that I have written to both them and the OC requesting site of proof that I requested PPI or that they advised me adequately etc regarding it. The links to the relevant documents are here http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...9b0001-1-1.jpg http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...95090002-2.jpg http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...95090001-2.jpg http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...age001-1-1.jpg http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...age001-1-1.jpg http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...age001-1-1.jpg http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...no1part2-1.jpg http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...no1part1-1.jpg

Thanks citizenB, I had already written to Restons and the OC requesting the PPI info as well as the DN details as per many CPR31.14 requests whilst I was waiting for your advice. So far, no response. I have also put in another formal request to the OC to refund the PPI. Again, no response. I would really appreciate any advice here because as it has been before the judge once before and they hav ein part fulfilled part of my request, I do not want to waste the courts time further by not being able to nail them down because I didn't cover all of my bases. I'll post up the links to the other relevant documents that I had originally sent to SB. Thanks again, Bel

Hi Jude, Not too sure why it is asking for log in details as I get to it no problem. Anyway, here is the letter. Good luck Bel Letter sent when debt is statute barred (send recorded) 1 High Street, Newtown, Kent R21 4RH June 28, 2006 The Loan Company Company House, Church Street, Newtown, Kent, R1 7HG Dear Sir/Madam Acc/Ref No 4563210025897412 You have contacted us regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by ourselves. We would point out that under the Limitation Act 1980 Section 5 “an action founded on simple contract shall not be brought after the expiration of six years from the date on which the cause of action accrued.” We would also point out that the OFT say under their Debt Collection Guidance on statute barred debt that “it is unfair to pursue the debt if the debtor has heard nothing from the creditor during the relevant limitation period”. The last payment of this alleged debt was made over six years ago and no further acknowledgement or payment has been made since that time. Unless you can provide evidence of payment or written contact from us in the relevant period under Section 5 of the Limitation Act, we suggest that you are no longer able to take any court action against us to recover the alleged amount claimed. The OFT Debt Collection Guidance states further that “continuing to press for payment after a debtor has stated that they will not be paying a debt because it is statute barred could amount to harassment contrary to CPUTR2008 We await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed and that no further contact will be made concerning the above account after that last letter. We look forward to your reply. Yours faithfully Mr A N Other

Hi Jude, Please see the link to the templates here The Consumer Forums - Debt collectors Dx is right however in my case I got more peace of mind when I sent DCA's the statute barred letter and got replies back from them saying that they were no longer pursuing the matter because yes, it is statute barred. Your choice but at least you have the tools/info with which to decide. Good luck, Bel

Hi Jude, Go for the statute barred letter. It is for them to prve that it isn't and as you hadn't acknowledged the debt from what you say, you are pretty sound ground. If you go to the main body of CAG and you will see a section called Template Letters or something similar. Look in there or alternatively google 'statute barred letter' and you will get a lot if samples to use. Good luck, bel

wannabee, I'm impressed! you are a goddess. good luck next month and I am keeping everything crossed for you - not that you need it! Bel

Hi again, A bit bleary eyed from doing lots of reading of threads which has formed a plan. I believe the DN served is faulty due to the following reasons 1. Length/date of service to remedy 2. It includes PPI that was not asked for 3. The wording of the DN in that it is all the same case and underlined so the warning does not stand out Also garnered from reading other posts is that Restons have applied £2000 in collection charges as well as asking for a daily rate of interest on the POC which apparantly they are not allowed to do. I'm about to write to the OC one more time about refunding the PPI but in the meantime, as my defence has/will be changing quite significantly due to the agreement being made available what is the best thing for me to do as Restons have given me until Friday to respond? Do I throw the above back at them or do I write the court advising them of my wish to amend my defence or both? Cheers, Bel

Siteteam, Any suggestions please? Cheers, Bel

Hi Guys, I need some urgent advice as to how to play the next steps properly. Firstly, I had posted the bulk of the update here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/255228-query-ppi-new-post.html In short, last year a judge awarded me costs in my favour as Restons had instigated court action without the original agreement. He agreed in my favour and had given them 40 days to produce it. At 90 days, I wrote to them to produce it otherwise I would go back to the court to ask them to declare unenforcable. 120 days later, the agreement as attached at the above link turns up. Restons have now given me 7 days to make arrangements for settlement. At the same time as writing to Restons, I had also written to the OC asking them to refund my PPI as I had reaslised that they had been debiting monthly premiums but had not supplied any information to show that I had asked for it, that I needed it or that they had advised me of options etc. Indeed, when I applied for the card, I knew I was going to be made redundant so PPi would have been a waste of time. So far the OC has not responded. In my original court defence, I had missed the PPI so didn't include it however at the directions stage, I had included the fact that PPI had been missold however when we went to court, the Judge understandably concentrated on the agreement first of all. My questions are as follows You will see from the agreement attched to the above link that it makes reference to two pages which are now clearly shown yet the agreement does not show my acceptance or request to PPI. The default notice served includes premiums + interest for PPI as does the court action. As it isn't included on the agreement, how does this affect things? What is the best way to play this with the court? As I missed out including the PPI point in my initial defence, how do I go about changing it? Do I wait for Restons to apply to the court and for the wheels to be set in motion again? My initial thoughts with regards to Restons is to write to them saying please prove the PPI was asked for etc as I believe the balances etc are defective. However, I don't want to let them off the hook by not knowing what eactly my rights/the law is etc What other suggestions can you make? Many thanks, Bel

Ok, Shouldn't I have trie dto pm him?? I have had a quick scan of his post but It still doesn't help me specifically with mine. Is there a member of the site team that you can recommend to me so that I can get them to have a look? Cheers, Bel

Hi DX, Have justy tried PMing pete2002_2004 to look at this thread and it says he doesn't exist! Any chance that you can get him to have a look at this? Cheers, Bel

Hi DX, Just as I thought. What you would you suggest my next steps should be? Do I write to Restons reminding them that I am strill awaiting proof of the PPI as John Lewis have still not responded? Do I prempt them and apply to the court to change my POC? Best wishes, Bel

Hi, Managed to get this sorted. Please see the links below http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f181/BelstarBomb/Restons/RestonsDefence0001_page001-1-1.jpg http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f181/BelstarBomb/Restons94100001_page001-1.jpg http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f181/BelstarBomb/Restons94100001_page002-1.jpg