Hi DX, I have just tried to upload the agreements etc but they have been saved to my computer as pdf's and photobucket doesn't like that! I won't have access to a computer until Monday to redo them as gif's/jpegs I'm afraid. However in short, the card was taken out in 2005. I queried the agreement in 2008 and played letter tennis with HFC until I got a letter from Restons around this time last year. They ignored me saying that the account was in dispute as John Lewis had not supplied me with a properly executed CCA and started legal action. I defended all charges based on the following 1. The alleged agreement is improperly executed under the CCA 1974 sec61 (1) and that further this court is excluded from making an enforcement order under the CCA 1974 sec 127(3). 2. That the Claimant has failed to comply with the Defendants request for information under the CCA sec 78(1) and that the Claimant is in default of that request. 3. That the Claimant has failed to comply in full with a Subject Access Request made pursuant to section 7(1) of the Data Protection Act 1998. 4. That the Default Notice issued on this date in 2008 was not issued in compliance with the CCA sec 88 (1)(b) in that the amount stated to remedy any breach of contract by the Defendant was incorrectly stated. 5. That the Claimant commenced legal action, contrary to the overriding objectives of the Civil Procedure Rules, having failed to acknowledge or respond to a request made on two separate occasions under CPR 31.14. The Defendant further avers that this claim was commenced while the account was clearly in dispute, contrary to debt collection guidelines issued by the Office of Fair Trading. 6. That the Claimant knowingly processed and passed personal information regarding the Defendant to a third party, without any implied or explicit consent to process data about the Defendant. 7. In the event that the Court does make the order requested in 17(1) above, that the court also make an order that any and all personal data held by the Claimant in respect of the Defendant be destroyed by both the Claimant and any third party that the Claimant may have passed that data to, and that the Claimant confirms to the Court and the Defendant when the destruction process has been completed. The Defendant makes this request on the basis that any express or implied consent given by the Defendant in the alleged agreement is also irredeemably unenforceable At the time, I had missed the PPI and did add it into a further document but it was not inlcuded in my original POC/defence as you can see. I have double checked all the paperwork that has been supplied as part of my SAR request and there is no refence to PPI being asked for, agreed to or them avising me about it etc but they had been applying a monthly premium from the moment a balance was applied to the agreement. I can email or attach the agreements in a PM which I think I will do anyway so let me know what you think Cheers, Bel

Hi DX, Thanks for this and the PM and yes you are right in what you said! This post is actually relating back to a partial win that we had with Restons with HFC/HSBC/JLFS which I posted here on CAG. They had ignored previous SAR and CPR requests to provide the properly executed CCA and took me to court. The Judge agreed with me and awarded me costs and gave them 40 days to produce it. 40 days came and went and I sent them a letter avisiing them to produce it or I would go back to court to get the Judge to rule it as unenforceable. The agreement turned up in the post today. I need to know how is the best way to approach this. 1. As they have given me 7 days to contact them with my suggestions for settlement, my intial response will be to advise them that I am still awaiting a response to my request for the PPI + interest or proof that I requested it. Good idea? 2. If they continue with the court route, can I add a counter-sue to take the PPI amount into consideration? 3. Does the fact that the initial default and subsequent calculations include the PPI amount have any bearing on the overall agreement. In effect, my payments to the account have been going to pay off PPI at a higher rate of interest instead of paying off the principal. 4. Am open to any other offers/suggestions that you brilliant foke may have that I in my innocence may have missed! Cheers, bel

Hi Dx, The monthly statements showed a premium for PPI. For the last 8 or 9 months where I didn't make a payment each months statement was made up monthly payment, interest and PPI payment. The amount on the final statement made up of the outstanding amount including interest and PPI is the amount plus legal fees that has been shown on the default notice. So yes, in my view the default is inclusive of PPI. Bel

Hi, A company has finally supplied a copy of the signed application form to me. It is in two halves with one half headed up 'Application for Credit' and the other form headed up as 'Consumer Credit Agreement' which has my signature on and that of the bank. They have now said start talking to them or cough up or it's court. Both documents do refer to each other. My question is, they had issued a default notice for £xxxxxx which included PPI cover. I never asked for it, can't quite believe that I didn't spot it before and happily paid my monthly amounts without question and didn't need it as I already had pretty comprehensive ASU cover with another company. I had asked the bank in question to supply proof that I had asked for it or that they had advised me of and checked to see if I need it and so far, they have not responded to my question. I have double checked the application/agreement form that they sent to me and no where on it, does it refer to PPI or show me ticking or agreeing to receive it. In addition, where they show how payments to the card will be applied, PPI is the first one in the list. Am I right in assuming that as it is included within the default amount, they should have supplied that information within the agreement becasue surely it makes up part of the agreement if they have charged it to me, charged interest on that and included it within a default amount?? I have already written to the bank asking for them to refund the amount but so far, silence. Your advice guys? Cheers, Bel

SB. Well done my man!! Now it will soon be my turn with Restons.

I take it Restons obviously have no respect for court orders SB as I am still waiting for my money from them and the court order they received was quite specific as to what they needed to do and when. When does this go back to court? Bel

Hi Guys, HSBC had previoulsy removed all data when I had sent them an S10 request as they admitted in writing that they coudln't find any agreement relating to the account. Prior to them doing so, I had written to the ICO to complain that they hadn't at the time complied with that, that they hadn't fulfilled my SAR in full in particular the CCA and finally that they were still processing my info. The ICO took an eternity to get back to me but finally did last week and advised that HSBC had the right to still process my info and that they had complied except for the 6th principal??? We then checked our credit file to note that HSBC had put the info back up with the CRA's having registered a default and are now chasing the debt again. After being threatened with a doorsetp visit, they were sent a letter saying bog off and subsequently confirmed in writing that our telephone numbers etc were being removed and that we would no longer be bothered, but today we have received another letter from them offing to settle at 60% of the original debt. What would you do in our situation? Bel

Hi SB, If the Judge was anything like mine, then no he won't. I'm sorry as I only got to page 17 that I am not fully up to date with everything that has gone on, but I get the impression that the courts do not look favourably on conduct such as this. My gut feeling would to be proactive and get the strike out or UO. Six weeks is a bit of mickey take and if a company the size of theirs, with the resources that they have cannot get their act together to get information that in theory, they should have to hand by a set date, then it's unlikely that they do have it and will supply it. Do you know what the costs are to do apply for the strike out? Bel

Hi Angel, The one bank appears to have crawled back under their stone and the other one got their knuckles rapped in court yesterday. The Judge stayed the proceedings and gave them 40 days to supply a properly executed CCA after giving them an earful for not attaching to the POC. He also rollocked them for ignoring my previous 2 CPR31.14 requests. I think it all boils down to how you choose to play things. I was advised to sit back and wait for them to take you to court giving them enough rope to hang themselves. I also made sure that the areas they had messed up on, I brought to the attention of the Judge and had already supplied the proof in my defence and at every suitable opportunity. What is happening to you? bel

Thanks Guys, SB am passing all my positive vibes up to you. You'll get more if you are from the blue side of town! Am still reading through your 22 pages....................... Bel

Hi SB100, It appears that Restons are on the war path. They are a little bruised however from today with me! Please keep me posted! Bel

Firstly, A HUGE thank you to a certain someone in accompanying me to court today. You were a great support and fountain of calm and knowledge and that helped me tremendously:D Anyway, a certain bank had supplied in response to my CCA request a partial copy of an appliaction form that did not have my signature or the prescribed terms on. Despite a SAR request and numerous CPR31.15 requests specifically asking for a copy of the properly executed CCA, I was ignored and was then served with court summons. The court gave both parties ample opportunity to come to a settlement but the claimant and their solicitors did not acknowledge or respond to any letters that I had sent to them. So today, I attened court with Tam for a directions hearing. The Judge had earlier directed that he may strike out the claimants case as well as my defence and that he would also like us to attempt a settlement. We were suprised when we arrived to find that a Barrister had been sent but took that as a good sign! The Judge was lovely! Having looked at my defence he asked their barrister where was the properly executed CCA as he could not fail to notice that there were no signatures on the paperwork supplied. I also chipped in that the blank application form also supplied was from 3 years after I had applied for the card. The Judge listened patiently as the barrister explained that in his opinion, th ebank had fulfilled their part of s77/78 as they had sent a copy of the application form, the T&Cs and confirmed the state of the account. The Judge sat their and waited and suggested that he get his book on the act and then read out s77/78 and asked the barrister if he felt that his client had still complied? Less confidently he stated yes and started rabbiting on about s65 of the act and s127 to which the Judge sat quietly and looked and sighed. He commented on my well laid out defence and advised the barrister as far as he was concerned, his client hadn't. The barrister said that they were still looking for the CCA and could they have more time, to which the Judge replied the clock 'had been running for the last 6 months and had now stopped' He also pointed out that the CCA should have been attached to court paperwork from the claimant and that they had wasted everyones time by not doing so. In short, he has now stayed the claim and given the bank 40 days to get a properly executed CCA to me and awarded me costs. The barrister tried to argue the level of costs - less than £100 for childcare - to which the Judge reminded him how much he thought costs would be if it was a solictor sitting on th eother side of the table instead of me. Silence from the barrister! What have I learnt from today? To be prepared in your court preparation - it was fun to see the barrister shuffling with all of his paperwork looking for a document to which I found in 2 seconds and sat patiently smiling at the Judge whilst he still looked for his! There is still confusion as to what constitutes fulling a s77/78 request having the ombudsman refuse a complaint from me with the bank in question supplying less than what this one did. If you are at court or about to go ensure that the CCA has been supplied by the claimant as apparantly not all Judges pick up on it. Believe in yourself and the law system. Ruond 1 to me, and I will keep you posted as to whether or not they find the agreement and what we will do next. In the meantime, I am off to enjoy Christmas, will supply a copy of the Judges findings to the FOS (as if it will help but miracles do happen!) and then will chase the claimant for my money! Good luck guys and Merry Christmas! Bel

Beaconsman, Other than the payment your wife made in 2008 of £110 when was the last time she made a payment to the credit card? Bel

Beaconsman, Start your own thread as it will be easier to give advice specific to you and your wife's problems. In short, it is never too late to do a SAR. That is your legal right and they are talking out of their bottoms. Do one straight away if only to give you a bit of breathing space as once you are waiting for that, you can tell DCA where to go albeit temporarily. Tell the DCA IN WRITING that you will not communicate with them about this until your legal request has been fulfilled in full. Send it Special Delivery to Goldfish and for good meausre, include a copy of it with your letter to the DCA. Goldfish was/is part of HFC/HSBC who have decided to put the size 10 Doc Martins on with their collections and the reaction that they got with your wife is exactly what they want. I take it you have probably spoken to Metropolitan? Is this the only credit card or are there other outstanding credit agreeements? Bel. PS. Start your own thread!

Beaconsman, Firstly, tell your wife there is no need to cry. When you are armed with all the facts it helps you to see the whole picture far more clearly. First things first, please start your own thread - you will see above this post how to do that. Then tell us the whole story. What type of agreement is it? Credit card, overdraft, unsecured or secured loan? When was it taken out? Has she spoken to the CAB or CCCS? Give us the details and someone will be able to advise you. Bel

Hi Martin, The thread had gone on a long time ago and I can't find it. Can I PM you so that I can speak more freely? Many thanks, Bel

Hi, I need some urgent advice re a pending court case. Who is the best person to PM the details to and to update you with what has been going on? Many thanks, Bel

I've still been around but just a little busy with a new baby! Need I say any more???

Hi Rigante, I'm about to PM you some info to throw back at them Bel

Hi Coactum, Can you give me the background to the Barclaycard issue? Have they removed the default or other information and have Barclaycard written to you about it? Cheers, Bel

Hi, I was speaking with someone yesterday about whether or not it's fair that defaults stay on your file for 6 years. She felt that 3 years was more appropriate and fair but doesn't know what can be done about it. We both know a lot of people who have defaulted on payments, mortgages, loans etc and if they take 6 years to clear, that will have a long term affect on peoples ability to borrow, which will have an effect on the economy. I see where she is coming from - interested to hear what you think? B

Hi Guys, Background information first. A credit card company supplied a copy of an express application that just had my name, address and my signature and some blurb about assessing the application with the CRA's and said that this was my certified properly executed copy of a CCA as they had alos supplied the t&c's that were applicable at the time. The application did not have their signature, did not have the prescribed terms and the t&c's are from the present day not those that were applicable in 2001 (I could tell from the amounts for bounced cheques etc). DCA's have come and have been suitably disatched over the years and I took the decision to complain about the said bank to the FOS. A guy from the FOS called me back today and said that the bank had fulfilled their obligation by sending me what they had and that I had weakend my case by complaining to the FOS?? I quoted sec 61(1) and various court cases to him and he said it doesn't matter, the bank have fulfilled their obligation regarding the CCA 1974 and that the only thing that the FOS can do is get involved if the bank is being unfair and so far, they haven't been unfair! Other than that, he doesn't feel the agreement is unenforceable He said that if I wanted to take it further I would need to go to court and that it was another government body that I would need to complain to (whose name escapes me) on the technicalities of law. He said he could write and ask them for the missing paperwork but that they would probably send what they already have done. 1. Is the guy from the FOS talking out of his behind or are the issues on the law being blurred by interpretation? 2. Shall I let them write to the bank or withdraw my complaint? 3. If the FOS find in favour of the bank, will this weaken my position should it go to court? After two years of doing nothing I can only assume they haven't gone to court for a reason Your thoughts? B

Hi LP, Thank you for such a full and concise response! Due to ongoing CCA issues I already have all the information such as statements going back 6 years. Do you have a link to the best spreadsheet to use? Cheers, Belstar

Hi Guys, I had PPI on a credit card and claimed on it when I was made redundant a number of years ago. The T&C's claim that you cannot claim for unemployment if you were out of work for x amount of months however, the credit card company is still taking the exact same payments as I paid for when I could claim even though I can't. I hope that that makes sense! Do I have any recourse or not and if so, what do I do next? Cheers, Belstar

Hi, I agree with DiddyDicky. I have had the same letters from Barclays about exactly the same going back to 2000 and they have finally got the message. As to have Aktiv Kapital and Moorhouse. Send the statute barred letter that you can find on here and they should confirm it in writing that they are no longer pursuing the debt as it is indeed statute barred. Suggest that they look up the recent ruling against Mackenzie Hall! If not, complain to the FOS Good luck, Belstar