Have you spoken to the Legal Complaints Service ? If not the number is 0845 6086565. They are really really helpful, & will tell you exactly what to do. Debs

did that 7 months ago, weve had confirmation, they are handling our complaint.problem is they are overwhelmed by complaints and can't cope. Debs

Hi, Even if you did manage to get a mortgage....don't. These debts will have been passed to somebody, they will be checking the land registry office, watching if your name comes up....then you'll get the letter. You've managed to get along for the past 4 years with these CCJ's. Depending on when they were issued, ONLY 2 years to go, the CCJ's will disappear off your credit file, & aslong as you have no contact with them, the debts become statute barred. I can understand your worry, wondering if today is the day you get that letter. But everyday you don't is a day closer to it being over. And IF the letters do arrive, atleast you've found this site. The next step for them would be a charging order, if you don't own your own home.....theres not alot they can do. Only my opinion. Good luck Debs

not entirely sure, but if it was a business to business loan, & the business is nolonger trading.....how can they force you to pay without an agreement. did you make any personal guarantees to this company ? Debs

AHA....but only to be disclosed when you go cap in hand to the government & you need your balance sheet to look better then it actually is.

Paul, You keep getting it wrong, there not "SECRET ACCOUNTS", they are "INTERNAL ACCOUNTS", sorry, "HISTORIC INTERNAL ACCOUNTS" don't you know the difference.:D:D Debs

In our original SAR to Joyce E Tudor, there was no mention of router accounts. But in our "Diary event history" from CMS it mentions router accounts, & even the account numbers. It was from this that we specifically asked for data .....& got it. Oh, & the banks Solicitor also had our router account numbers.Not so internal then. Debs

So basically, router accounts are set up to prevent THEM making mistakes. Just in case theres another Paul Walton, with the same account numbers, & same address, also gets into debt with the RBS. So why the secrecy. Debs

Hi You can send RBS a CCA request for your agreements. There response is standard & well documented on the forum, " the CCJ is now our agreement with you, & we do not have to comply with your request". Do it anyway, but don't hold your breath. I totally agree. Our CCJ's are 10 years old, weve only just discovered that the RBS have lied to us, misled there solicitor & the courts inorder to get judgement.We need a a high profile case to set a president. Watch out RBS, I know your watching...... Debs

When I origonally looked at reasons for set a side, it stated quite clearly, that if you discovered that the CCJ was made up of interest & charges that you now believe are "unlawful", you could apply to have the judgement set a side. I still don't understand why TIME should be an issue. Whether it was last month or [in our case] 10 years. If the CCJ is INCORRECT, then you should have the right to challenge it. New legislation [the data protection act was not around for us] & the internet are making it possible to challenge the banks, just like the advancement of DNA is helping the police.I recently saw a case, a crime had been committed 30 years ago. At the hearing, the Judge didn't say to the police "You should have caught him sooner, I'm rejecting your evidence". The problem seems to be, that we "The litigant in person", are becoming more Knowledgable. The banks don't like it, & neither do the courts, they've got too used to just rubber stamping every CCJ. Debs

Hi, You really need to do the SAR asap. They should send you all the statements from day 1 [accounts opened], on both your loan account & your current account. This way you can calculate exactly all the charges & interest prior to judgement. It should also show to what account your payments are being credited. It will also show if they are adding interest after judgement. They cannot do this unless your agreements allows for Post-Judgement interest. 1. Send your DSAR to Joyce E Tudor, Edinburgh & £10 payment. 2. Send a copy of this to The Customer Services Manager, CMS, Telford. Ask them specifically for a copy of your "Diary Event History". This is a log of all phonecalls/letters between the bank, you & the Solicitor. 3. If data held on you is incorrect, challenge them. If data sent to Sol's is incorrect, DSAR the solicitor. When we did our DSAR back in April, it was to calculate the interest & charges, our aim initially was to use this to negotiate a settlement with the RBS. What we actually discovered has been ....well.... just down right criminal. Don't trust the RBS. They WILL lie to you. From now on you need to be 1 step ahead of them. IF they refuse to supply a true signed copy of your agreement, showing that they can add interest Post Judgement.Challenge there right to do this. MAKE them send documents supporting there claim. If they refuse...use CPR 31.16. Speak to the courts on monday, yes it should be a full transcript. Don't be frightened to say you were concerned with the Judge's comments. Even ask about what steps to take if they have been mislead by the banks Sol's. Debs

Hi YM I had exactly the same problem at my charging order in June. The judge was completely ignorant of consumer law. I will be applying for a set a side, but thought it best to clarify a few issues raised by this judge. When I spoke to the courts 2 weeks ago, they informed me that she had been removed from her position. You can apply to the courts for a copy of the transcript. Also my problem is with the RBS, they also refused to comply with my CCA request as they already have judgement. As I am indending to take this back to court I am going to use CPR part 31.16, A Formal request for information. We also admitted the debt on the CCJ, like you,we didn't agree with the amount but were bullied into it. Have you done a SAR ? Debs

We did a CCA request, but the RBS refused to provide any documents in relation to any of the accounts held in our name, because the [CCJ] Judgement was now our agreement. Can we use CPR 31.16 ? Debs

HH, If they are adding post judgement interest, you must CCA them. If they fail to provide the agreement, you can challenge the interest. I've also read threads were Set a sides have been won, where an agreement has not been provided after the CCJ was granted. Its very difficult for a Litigant in Person to say to a judge..."Your Wrong". Debs

Hi MJ Don't worry about the charging order. Concentrate on getting the CCJ set a side, the charging order will be automatically removed when you are successsful. They have had there moment of glory, it won't last long. Debs

I've seen a similar thread, but from a couple who bought a property with a charge on it, the sellers Knew about the charge, but withheld this from there own solicitor. This couple had paid for this property, but because of the charge the land registry couldn't put the deeds in there name. They were suing all parties involved, there Solicitor for not doing proper checks, but especially the sellers for not disclosing this. Debs

Hi MJ, CAG has been great, unfortunately it wasn't around 10 years ago. Just a thought, we also did a SAR on the banks solicitor. You never know what they might have. Debs

Hi Mandyjane, Ours is a complex case, a huge big puzzle with loads of peices either lost or destroyed by the RBS. But I have learnt so much, & want to pass on what I know, & experienced. Couple stung by £100,000 ‘secret’ loan - Times Online Debs

Hi HH, I'm sorry if VG has taken offence it was not my intention to upset anyone. The information I'm giving is based on my own experience. I've been to 2 CO's, my own & my partners.[its a joint debt].Our cases are exactly the same & yet both court hearings were completely different, one judge was helpful & listened, the other was totally ignorant of consumer law & didn't listen at all, she spurted out the most ridiculous comments. According to her, the bank only needed to provide 2 years worth of data..... Your getting good advice, especially from VG, but it doesn't matter how much you know about consumer law. If you get a judge that contradicts you, even though you know there wrong. What do you do? The only way to prevent this happening is to go to court fully armed, & assume the judge knows nothing. I only wanted to help. As for the Post Judgement interest. You really need a copy of the agreement. As I said, this can only be applied if it is stipulated in the agreement, & even then it can be challenged if the rate is too high. Have you done a CCA request ? Debs

I have a judgment order which I am paying in instalments and have prove of these payments. The judgement order, tells you how much you have to pay each month. The amount you pay is determined by the judge. HH have you complied with the jugdement ruling ? If the answer is NO, then they CAN apply for a CO. It will be granted. If answer is YES, then Solicitors are scumbags & you must challenge this unfounded claim. As for the interest rate, again this seems incredibly high. And again from my own experience, THEY CANNOT ADD INTEREST POST JUDGEMENT UNLESS IT IS CONTAINED IN THE PRESCRIBED TERMS & CONDITIONS OF YOUR ORIGONAL AGREEMENT. Debs

Hi guys VG I will look at your thread, not fair to hijack hammyhound. Okay, HH you got a CCJ against you[ Wev'e all got one of those:)]. You have complied with the judgement ruling. You have proof that payments have been made in accordance with judgement. The judge cannot grant the CO. This is your defence. You'll be allocated 5 mins in court. Please speak to the LCS on monday, they are an indepedant body & really really helpful. Attack this company head on, they know the rules, they just choose not to play by them. Debs

I have been paying all my creditors on a DMP for 12 months, it has not stopped NR obtaining an iterim CO in fact I have a hearing listed in January to try and prevent them having the interim CO stamped and sealed. Hi VG, A CCJ, is a court agreement. Aslong as you don't default on the courts decision, they CANNOT apply for a CO. How do I know this ? Because I got a CCJ for £59k[£40k worth of interest & charges] 10years ago, I paid £300 p/m for 7 years [without missing a single payment] , as soon as I challenged the CCJ, stopped paying they went for a CO. At the CO, the judge accepted the defence that the origonal CCJ was made up of charges & interest, but had no choice but to grant the CO because I had defaulted on the Judgement. I'm sorry, I don't know how a DMP works, but unlike an IVA it obviously doesn't protect you from creditors who get greedy & want more money. But before they can go for a CO, they would have obtained a CCJ first. Debs

Hi Mandyjane You do have a strong case to setaside. Your problem seems to be, that you are relying on documents from them to prove your case. It shouldn't be that way, but your right to be concernced. From my own experience at my charging order, the Judge was totally ignorant of consumer law & totally refused to accept what I was saying. When I spoke to the courts last week, they told me she had been removed from her position. In our case, the RBS refused to comply with our CCA request, they said that the judgement was now the agreement. There maybe another way to force data from them. And in your case, the documents are vital to support your case. I've been looking at CPR 31.14 for our own case, & I think it will do no harm to use it. I also beleive, that failure to comply with a Court Procedures Rule, will add more weight to your case then non compliance to the SAR & CCA. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/159445-getting-them-reveal-their.html Debs

The document HAS to be legible. If you can't read it, then its not enforceable. Write back, until they provide a copy of the origonal agreement with your signiture that is cleary legible, then this debt is in dispute & cannot be enforced in court. Do not let these people bully you. From now on only correspond in writing, don't speak with them on the phone. Have they provided you with a statement, showing any charges or interest that they have added to the debt, & also proof that your payments are being used to reduce the debt. If not, you could SAR them aswell. If they did come up with the agreement, you may be able to dispute the amount. Good Luck Debs

Hi, CL Finance Solicitors CANNOT go for a charging order aslong as you are complying with the judgement. On monday morning speak to the Legal Complaints Services on 0845 6086565, they are really helpful, they'll give you the name of the person who handles complaints at this ****** company, they'll also tell you exactly what to say in your letter of complaint, & what action to take if they don't respond. Send your letter ASAP recorded delivery. Include a copy of the letter & proof of delivery in with your defence. CL finance have no legal right to do this to you. If they choose to proceed with this unfounded action, make it perfectly clear that YOU will claim costs against them [ keep a note of the time spent on this, letters written ,Phone calls , postage costs.Time off work to attend the hearing. Itemise it all ]. Companies like this rely on peoples ignorance. Do you have a copy of your credit agreement? They can ONLY add interest after judgement if it is contained within the origonal agreement that you signed. Can you also check the Particulars of Claim from your CCJ. Have they mentioned post jugement interest when applying to the courts. For them to do this, they are required to attach the agreement as proof that they can. You may be able to use this when applying to set a side. Good Luck Debs