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    • Hi LFI, Your knowledge in this area is greater than I could possibly hope to have and as such I appreciate your feedback. I'm not sure that I agree the reason why a barrister would say that, only to get new customers, I'm sure he must have had professional experience in this area that qualifies him to make that point. 🙂 In your point 1 you mention: 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver. I understand the point you are making but I was referring to when the keeper is also the driver and admits it later and only in this circumstance, but I understand what you are saying. I take on board the issues you raise in point 2. Is it possible that a PPC (claimant) could refer back to the case above as proof that the motorist should have appealed, like they refer back to other cases? Thanks once again for the feedback.
    • Well barristers would say that in the hope that motorists would go to them for advice -obviously paid advice.  The problem with appealing is at least twofold. 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver.  And in a lot of cases the last thing the keeper wants when they are also the driver is that the parking company knows that. It makes it so much easier for them as the majority  of Judges do not accept that the keeper and the driver are the same person for obvious reasons. Often they are not the same person especially when it is a family car where the husband, wife and children are all insured to drive the same car. On top of that  just about every person who has a valid insurance policy is able to drive another person's vehicle. So there are many possibilities and it should be up to the parking company to prove it to some extent.  Most parking company's do not accept appeals under virtually any circumstances. But insist that you carry on and appeal to their so called impartial jury who are often anything but impartial. By turning down that second appeal, many motorists pay up because they don't know enough about PoFA to argue with those decisions which brings us to the second problem. 2] the major parking companies are mostly unscrupulous, lying cheating scrotes. So when you appeal and your reasons look as if they would have merit in Court, they then go about  concocting a Witness Statement to debunk that challenge. We feel that by leaving what we think are the strongest arguments to our Member's Witness Statements, it leaves insufficient time to be thwarted with their lies etc. And when the motorists defence is good enough to win, it should win regardless of when it is first produced.   
    • S13 (2)The creditor may not exercise the right under paragraph 4 to recover from the keeper any unpaid parking charges specified in the notice to keeper if, within the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which that notice was given, the creditor is given— (a)a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement; (b)a copy of the hire agreement; and (c)a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement. As  Arval has complied with the above they cannot be pursued by EC----- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- S14 [1]   the creditor may recover those charges (so far as they remain unpaid) from the hirer. (2)The conditions are that— (a)the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper; (b)a period of 21 days beginning with the day on which the notice to hirer was given has elapsed;  As ECP did not send copies of the documents to your company and they have given 28 days instead of 21 days they have failed to comply with  the Act so you and your Company are absolved from paying. That is not to say that they won't continue asking to be paid as they do not have the faintest idea how PoFA works. 
    • Euro have got a lot wrong and have failed to comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4.  According to Section 13 after ECP have written to Arval they should then send a NTH to the Hirer  which they have done.This eliminates Arval from any further pursuit by ECP. When they wrote to your company they should have sent copies of everything that they asked Arval for. This is to prove that your company agree what happened on the day of the breach. If ECP then comply with the Act they are allowed to pursue the hirer. If they fail, to comply they cannot make the hirer pay. They can pursue until they are blue in the face but the Hirer is not lawfully required to pay them and if it went to Court ECP would lose. Your company could say who was driving but the only person that can be pursued is the Hirer, there does not appear to be an extension for a driver to be pursued. Even if there was, because ECP have failed miserably to comply with the Act  they still have no chance of winning in Court. Here are the relevant Hire sections from the Act below.
    • Thank-you FTMDave for your feedback. May I take this opportunity to say that after reading numerous threads to which you are a contributor, I have great admiration for you. You really do go above and beyond in your efforts to help other people. The time you put in to help, in particular with witness statements is incredible. I am also impressed by the way in which you will defer to others with more experience should there be a particular point that you are not 100% clear on and return with answers or advice that you have sought. I wish I had the ability to help others as you do. There is another forum expert that I must also thank for his time and patience answering my questions and allowing me to come to a “penny drops” moment on one particular issue. I believe he has helped me immensely to understand and to strengthen my own case. I shall not mention who it is here at the moment just in case he would rather I didn't but I greatly appreciate the time he took working through that issue with me. I spent 20+ years of working in an industry that rules and regulations had to be strictly adhered to, indeed, exams had to be taken in order that one had to become qualified in those rules and regulations in order to carry out the duties of the post. In a way, such things as PoFA 2012 are rules and regulations that are not completely alien to me. It has been very enjoyable for me to learn these regulations and the law surrounding them. I wish I had found this forum years ago. I admit that perhaps I had been too keen to express my opinions given that I am still in the learning process. After a suitable period in this industry I became Qualified to teach the rules and regulations and I always said to those I taught that there is no such thing as a stupid question. If opinions, theories and observations are put forward, discussion can take place and as long as the result is that the student is able to clearly see where they went wrong and got to that moment where the penny drops then that is a valuable learning experience. No matter how experienced one is, there is always something to learn and if I did not know the answer to a question, I would say, I don't know the answer to that question but I will go and find out what the answer is. In any posts I have made, I have stated, “unless I am wrong” or “as far as I can see” awaiting a response telling me what I got wrong, if it was wrong. If I am wrong I am only too happy to admit it and take it as a valuable learning experience. I take the point that perhaps I should not post on other peoples threads and I shall refrain from doing so going forward. 🤐 As alluded to, circumstances can change, FTMDave made the following point that it had been boasted that no Caggers, over two years, who had sent a PPC the wrong registration snotty letter, had even been taken to court, let alone lost a court hearing .... but now they have. I too used the word "seemed" because it is true, we haven't had all the details. After perusing this forum I believe certain advice changed here after the Beavis case, I could be wrong but that is what I seem to remember reading. Could it be that after winning the above case in question, a claimant could refer back to this case and claim that a defendant had not made use of the appeal process, therefore allowing the claimant to win? Again, in this instance only, I do not know what is to be gained by not making an appeal or concealing the identity of the driver, especially if it is later admitted that the defendant was the driver and was the one to input the incorrect VRN in error. So far no one has educated me as to the reason why. But, of course, when making an appeal, it should be worded carefully so that an error in the appeal process cannot be referred back to. I thought long and hard about whether or not to post here but I wanted to bring up this point for discussion. Yes, I admit I have limited knowledge, but does that mean I should have kept silent? After I posted that I moved away from this forum slightly to find other avenues to increase my knowledge. I bought a law book and am now following certain lawyers on Youtube in the hope of arming myself with enough ammunition to use in my own case. In one video titled “7 Reasons You Will LOSE Your Court Case (and how to avoid them)” by Black Belt Barrister I believe he makes my point by saying the following, and I quote: “If you ignore the complaint in the first instance and it does eventually end up in court then it's going to look bad that you didn't co-operate in the first place. The court is not going to look kindly on you simply ignoring the company and not, let's say, availing yourself of any kind of appeal opportunities, particularly if we are talking about parking charge notices and things like that.” This point makes me think that, it is not such a bizarre judgement in the end. Only in the case of having proof of payment and inputting an incorrect VRN .... could it be worthwhile making a carefully worded appeal in the first instance? .... If the appeal fails, depending on the reason, surely this could only help if it went to court? As always, any feedback gratefully received.
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

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      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Dealing with Mortgage / Secured Loan arrears


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Dealing with Mortgage & Secured Loan arrears.

 

 

 

There are several different types of mortgages available to the house buyer, we will begin by going through some of the popular types.

 

Repayment Mortgage

 

This is the traditional variant where the capital is repaid gradually over the period of the loan along with the interest.

 

Interest Only Mortgage

 

The borrower pays only the interest throughout the term of the mortgage. This means the capital never reduces, the borrower would need to make an arrangement to have this paid by the end of the term. It might be that the mortgage has a repayment vehicle for the capital, these include:

 

Endowment Policy

 

This would mature at the end of the mortgage term and should cover the outstanding balance. There have been many occasions where the borrower’s maturity proceeds haven’t been sufficient to pay the mortgage balance, specialist advice such be sought if this has happened to you. If you know that your endowment is underperforming you must consider alternative options to get your mortgage paid.

 

Pension or PEP/ISA mortgages

 

These are similar to the endowment mortgages except that the borrower pays into a different type of policy.

 

All monies charges

 

If you have a huge secured overdraft (usually these “One Account” type setups) they are known as All monies charges. These mortgages cover “all borrowing, past, present and future”. If you fall into difficulties with this type of mortgage there are not as many safety nets in place to help the consumer, you MUST seek specialist advice as soon as possible.

 

 

Dealing with arrears – Pre Court

 

 

If you fall into arrears it is important to be realistic, please consider the affordability of the mortgage and whether you can actually afford to remain in your property. It could be worth completing a financial statement to see exactly how things stand for you. Mortgage arrears are a priority debt, this means you should make arrangements to repay them prior to dealing with any of your non-priority credit debts. As soon as you realise you are having difficulties with your mortgage it is important to contact your lender, they may have a code of practice which outlines how they help people, ask for a copy! Mortgages taken out pre 31st Oct 2004 may have the protection of The Mortgage Code, find out if the lender subscribed. If your mortgage was taken out after the 31st Oct 2004 find out if the lender registered with The Financial Services Authority (FSA) You might be able to see if the lender has breached the rules, it may help with your negotiations.

 

 

Arrears options

 

 

 

Current Instalment + something towards the arrears

 

 

If, when you’ve completed you financial statement, you can afford to keep up with your current instalment and have a little bit of money left over, you may wish to offer a little extra to clear the arrears over a reasonable amount of time. You should only offer an amount that is affordable and realistic. Always gain confirmation in writing that your proposal has been accepted. A quick word of warning, some mortgage firms charge interest on the arrears, ensure that your proposal takes this into consideration.

 

 

Raising a lump sum

 

 

It might be a possibility that you could raise a lump sum to clear the arrears, you should always be cautious of borrowing more to do this, if in doubt seek financial advice. You should always take care if you’re considering cashing in any financial polices to raise the money.

 

 

Capitalising the arrears

 

 

This is where the lender adds your arrears to the mortgage, it’s a bit like a mini re-finance. It should be noted that the arrears might attract additional interest over a very long period of time so it could work out to be quite expensive. The lender is only going to consider this as an option if no new arrears are likely to accrue, they are likely to request a copy of your financial statement prior to making a decision.

 

 

Extending the term of the mortgage

 

 

This could reduce your monthly instalments on a repayment mortgage, it will be more expensive in the long term due to the additional interest costs.

 

 

Re-mortgaging

 

 

This involved taking out a new loan to repay the old, there may be additional setup fees to consider with this route. With the current economic climate you may find it difficult to get a rate as good as your old one.

 

 

Switching mortgage type

 

 

Seek financial advice if you decide to move from repayment to interest only. The instalments may be more affordable but you’ll never pay back the capital unless you set up a repayment vehicle.

 

 

Payment holiday

 

 

A temporary repayment holiday might provide a quick fix, please consider that your interest will still accrue whilst you’re not paying.

 

Income Support Mortgage Interest (ISMI)

 

 

It is always worth ensuring that you are claiming all you are entitled to, If you’re in receipt of certain means-tested benefits you might be able to have some or all of your mortgage interest paid. For most people there is a 39 week wait for any claims, you can only have payment for the first £100,000 of any mortgage interest too.

 

 

Time Order

 

 

If your mortgage or secured loan is regulated by The Consumer Credit Act and a default notice has been issued, you might be able to apply for a Time Order. This would allow you to vary the length of time the mortgage is paid over, which in turn could reduce the instalment amount. These are usually only granted as a temporary measure although recent case law suggests that they could be permanent.

 

 

Possession Action

 

 

You can find the rules surround Possession action by taking a look at Part 55 of the Civil Procedure Rules. Court action should be used as a last resort, prior to action being taken you should receive correspondence stating that action is pending. If the loan is regulated by The Consumer Credit Act, you would have to have had a default notice which has expired. FSA regulated agreements require that prescribed information is sent out along with a copy of the “What to do when you cannot meet your mortgage arrears” booklet. You can see a copy here:

 

http://www.moneymadeclear.fsa.gov.uk/pdfs/mortgage_cantpay.pdf

 

The possession procedure is as follows:

 

1. The Lender issues a claim on claim form N5

2. Defendant replies or ignores claim

3. Hearing

4. The judge will either grant a suspended order, an adjournment (or no order), case management directions or an outright order for possession.

5. If an outright order is granted or the defendant defaults on the suspended order a warrant of possession is granted.

6. The defendant could apply to suspend the warrant of possession

 

Proceedings usually start about 4-6 weeks after the initial notice of intended proceedings (letter before action). You would receive a claim form and the particulars of claim. The hearing date will then follow, the vast majority of cases are heard in the county court. The particulars of claim has to include quite specific information, it is worth checking yours with a trained Money Adviser or Solicitor.

 

There may be a possibility that you could defend the claim, if this is the case you must seek help from a specialist. Most defences are based upon an incorrect amount being chased, some might question the enforceability of any CCA regulated loans, some might question the “fairness” of the agreement. In this article I’m not going to dwell on defences, we will assume you owe the money.

 

Legislation & Case Law

 

 

The legislation surrounding possession proceedings varies depending on the type of agreement you have. Very few people may have a Consumer Credit Act regulated agreement, if this is the best option to deal with arrears would be to apply for a Time Order. This would allow the borrower to reschedule the whole debt via the courts which could mean that the length of time that the agreement is paid over extends. When a Time Order is applied for you can ask the court to consider changing the rate of interest at the same time. There are millions of threads on this site discussing the virtues of the Consumer Credit Act so do take a look around! Please note that as of 31st October 2004, first mortgages will not be Consumer Credit Act regulated even if they are within the monetary value, this is because they are FSA regulated.

 

FSA regulated mortgages are covered by s8 of The Administration of Justice Act 1973. The court would need to consider if the borrower can meet the ongoing mortgage instalment plus a “reasonable” amount each month against the arrears. Most judges considered that 3-4 years would be a reasonable amount of time to clear the arrears, in 1995 The Court of Appeal decided that a reasonable amount of time could be the entire remaining term of the mortgage. This landmark case was The Cheltenham & Gloucester V Norgan, it is fundamentally important to quote this case if you are looking to obtain an order to suspend possession.

 

Secured Overdrafts which are not CCA regulated (these one account type things!) are covered by s36 of The Administration of Justice Act 1970. You have to be very careful with these as if you default of the agreement the WHOLE sum under the mortgage becomes due and will have to repaid. There is little protection via the courts with these agreements so it would be paramount that you could find the money to repay the debt or have a defence to the action. It would be important to seek specialist advice as soon as possible.

 

 

The Hearing

 

 

If the borrower doesn’t wish to fight the possession proceedings and is happy to move out they may not have to attend the hearing. An order for immediate possession will be granted and the court can set a date for when the property will have to be vacated.

 

If they wish to try and remain in the house or request time to find alternative accommodation, they must attend the hearing – Even if an arrangement has been made with the lender.

 

The court usually grants one of the following orders:

 

· An order for immediate possession

· An order for possession postponed or stayed (Usually if the borrower has asked for time to sell)

· A suspended possession order (You could remain in the house providing you keep up with the agreed instalments)

· An adjournment (usually when there are outstanding issues to resolve)

 

A court would usually agree or suggest an adjournment if:

 

  • There are outstanding matters that need to be finalised
  • For CCA regulated agreements, the defendant wishes to make a Time Order
  • Complex legal issue which needs further information/advice
  • The borrower has paid the arrears

Defences:

 

I’m not going to spend any time on possible defences, if you feel you want to consider a defence to repossession action you must seek specialist advice. Possible defences include overriding interests with the property, extortionate/unfair credit, failure to comply with the CCA, failure to comply with the FSA rules, undue influence, misrepresentation, unreasonable conduct and unfair terms.

 

 

Keeping your house

 

 

Most folks will be looking for a suspended possession order at the hearing. If an outright possession order has been made an application can be made to suspend it via the N244 form, there is a fee of £35 to do this (do not let the court fob you off with the £75 application notice fee!). Any application would need to have supporting evidence showing that the instalment + something towards the arrears can be met. If you ever breach a suspended possession order you could apply to re-suspend it although a judge may be reluctant to do this if the terms have been breached more than once.

 

 

Losing your house

 

 

Sometimes you may have to face up to the fact that keeping the house isn’t going to be possible. It is important to plan what you’ll do next. If you house has been repossessed you may be classed as being unintentionally homeless, this means you could be able to seek additional assistance from your local authority. If you wish to discuss homelessness and housing issues in more detail please consider calling Shelter on 0808 800 4444. Shelter: Home page

 

This post is only a very quick overview, if you would like to have some further advice please consider calling one of the debt help charities such as National Debtline or Consumer Credit Counselling service. You can also seek further advice from Shelter.

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