Chancer v Welcome & others

[chancer1]

OK here we go -

 

I have made a complaint against WFS - I have also S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)'d them and CCA'd them.

 

They have acknowledged all 3 and are said to be dealing with.

 

Day 12 on the CCA is up as of yesterday - I have spoken with someone in the legal compliance dept and they have advised that they cannot find it, my compliant has been escalated to area and regional manager, so pls don't call the branch - they cannot help - no change there then

 

I have asked for a letter explaining that they cannot find my agreement, they have agreed, but i'll wait and see.

 

What are my options - they still want 8K - i borrowed 5k, have paid back 7.5k - am pushing for mis sell of ppi due to being a condition of taking out the loan(think it was used tho)

 

I have managed to get the information removed from 1 CRA but the other is refusing to budge without WFS say so.

 

I have read a lot of different information on the forums, but the gist seems to point to the enforceability side and fighting that.

 

One other issue is, I cannot see how i would've signed a document asking for £19,500 as payment in total for a £5k loan, both myself and my partner have racked our brains and cannot remember that being the final figure, as the loan was for the extension on a property we were going to sell as soon as the ext was finished, and did!

 

There comes another issue - this was a supposed secured loan - yet no charge stood when the property was sold, my legal advice was 'you do not have to settle the loan - it was not secured against your property'

 

What do I do?????

[steven4064]

Write and tell them that the account is in dispute and they must not

 

1) ask you for payment

2) add any charges or interest to the ccount

3) pass onany information about the account to any 3rd party

4) put any marke on your credit rating.

Tell them that they have 1 calendar month to find the agreement or they have committed an offence and then, if they take you to court, their non-compliance is a complete defence. Don't pay them anything. Copy the letter to the OFT and your local Trading Standards.

 

Personally, I would give them a few days to get their promised letter to you first so that you can use it to try and get the default removed.

[chancer1]

I have a response regarding the 'to date' failure of suppling my CCA.

 

They admit they are unable to provide the original document......

 

BUT.......

 

The now advise that they are in the process of raising new documents which will mirror those from 2004.

 

Can they do this??? because I am querying amounts of final payment and PPI will they not need the ORIGINAL document to show that is what I signed for?

 

Any advice appreciated.

[steven4064]

They can do it but it won't be any use to the, because it won't have your signature on it. (I suggest you don't put your signature on it either!!)

 

Yes, they will need the original to show that you agreed to PPI.

[chancer1]

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Thank you for your latest communication from your Branch Manager XXXXX XXXXXX, I understand that you are unable to provide me a signed copy of my original credit agreement.

This account is now clearly in dispute and this leads me to believe that, until such a time as this document is found:-

1) You must NOT ask for payment

2) You must NOT add any charges or interest to the account

3) You must NOT pass on any information about the account to any 3rd party

I understand you now have 1 calendar month to find the original agreement or you will have committed an offense and if you take me to court, your non-compliance is a complete defense.

I am also aware that without a signed agreement you are not allowed to disclose any information about myself – you have already done this, in the respect of information held by Experian / Equifax & Call Credit – I am formally requesting that the information be removed from Experian and any other 3rd party you passed my details to.

I look forward to a timely response to my request, or you will leave me no further option but to report Welcome Financial Services to the Information Commissioners Office.

I have also been advised by Experian that you have given information that is factually incorrect – you have linked me to an address of XXXXXXXX, which I have never lived at or been associated with. A linked address can ONLY be used if that is a correspondence address or the account holder has moved from or to that address in the last 8 years.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Mugged

 

Does this seem OK???

[steven4064]

Looks good - you might add to the 'I am formally requesting..' that this is purusant to s10 of the DPA 1998 (I think s10 is the right section)

[chancer1]

Thanx Steven,

 

S 10 seem to apply to the right to prevent processing information - but doesn't mention anything about CCA's or signed agreements???? or am i just being dumb?

 

Right to prevent processing likely to cause damage or distress. 10. - (1) Subject to subsection (2), an individual is entitled at any time by notice in writing to a data controller to require the data controller at the end of such period as is reasonable in the circumstances to cease, or not to begin, processing, or processing for a specified purpose or in a specified manner, any personal data in respect of which he is the data subject, on the ground that, for specified reasons-

• (a) the processing of those data or their processing for that purpose or in that manner is causing or is likely to cause substantial damage or substantial distress to him or to another, and

• (b) that damage or distress is or would be unwarranted.

(2) Subsection (1) does not apply-

• (a) in a case where any of the conditions in paragraphs 1 to 4 of Schedule 2 is met, or

• (b) in such other cases as may be prescribed by the Secretary of State by order.

(3) The data controller must within twenty-one days of receiving a notice under subsection (1) ("the data subject notice") give the individual who gave it a written notice-

• (a) stating that he has complied or intends to comply with the data subject notice, or

• (b) stating his reasons for regarding the data subject notice as to any extent unjustified and the extent (if any) to which he has complied or intends to comply with it.

(4) If a court is satisfied, on the application of any person who has given a notice under subsection (1) which appears to the court to be justified (or to be justified to any extent), that the data controller in question has failed to comply with the notice, the court may order him to take such steps for complying with the notice (or for complying with it to that extent) as the court thinks fit.

(5) The failure by a data subject to exercise the right conferred by subsection (1) or section 11(1) does not affect any other right conferred on him by this Part.

 

 

On another completely separate note they have advised in the letter they sent me that this loans was taken out in August 2004 - that is 3 months after I sold the property that the loan was secured against - & 2 years after the loan was taken out - might be interesting to see their 'mock up' of my original credit agreement.

[steven4064]

It was on the basis that information held by Experien et al is damaging and distressing to you

[chancer1]

cool, I'll add that line in

 

Thanx

[chancer1]

Phoned the branch today to ask them to stop sending letters to the wrong address - Head Office have got the right address - but the branch doesn't, was told by the manager that he cannot discuss the account - it has been handed back to central compliance - don't know what to make of that?

 

But I did go on to insist they stop writing to the wrong address.

[chancer1]

Had an email from the OFT - left me slightly dazed and confused, it says :-

 

A ‘true copy’ of an agreement principally consists of the terms and conditions of the agreement and the statutory content of the agreement. The name, address and signature of the debtor does not have to be provided. Additionally, the creditor must supply the total sum paid under the agreement by the debtor; the total sum which has become payable under the agreement but remains unpaid; and the total sum which is to become payable under the agreement by the debtor (the latter two must include the various amounts comprised in that total sum and the date when each is/was due).

 

Which to a point, agrees with the letter from WFS saying they are going to reconstruct the agreement from the information held on their system, but the OFT goes on to say :-

 

However, the copy must be a copy. It need not be exact on immaterial points, but it cannot be a conjectured reconstruction. If the trader has no original copy, the trader will have difficulty showing that he has complied with the regulation by supplying a ‘true copy’, since nobody would know what was in the original. When the trader comes to enforce the debt in court, he needs to have a signed copy of the agreement in order to enforce. As the law stands currently he cannot otherwise.

 

So they do have to find the original???? very confusing?????

[steven4064]

Mybe a true copy is as they say. However, the CCA doesn't say 'true copy' it says 'copy of the executed agreement'

[chancer1]

WOW!!!!!!!!!!

I have just spoken with Legal Compliance dept at WFS after receiving a call asking me if a wanted another loan -

 

They have written off the debt of over £8k

 

Thanx for all your help on this

 

! quiestion - can i still claim my illegal charges back??? or is that a bit cheeky???

[steven4064]

quiestion - can i still claim my illegal charges back??? or is that a bit cheeky???

I think that might be pushing your luck!!

 

But CONGRATULATIONS on the win.

[chancer1]

cheers steve.

[chancer1]

OK - Have now received actual letter outlining what's & why's.

 

Dear Chancer1

 

I can confirm we cannot provide CCA under your request - better practices in place to ensure doesn't happen.

 

Gesture of goodwill right off outstanding debt, even tho they have enough evidence to prove the loan existed???

 

Blah Blah - Obligation to report payment history to CRA's, will look into errors but nothing else.

 

PPI was claimed against, therefore no claim should be made as I did need it.

 

 

QUESTIONS:-

 

1, I am presuming this is a response to my complaint?

2, Without a CCA - how can they give my information to 3rd parties?

3, Do / Can I still report them for failing to provide CCA?

 

Thanx

[steven4064]

1, I am presuming this is a response to my complaint?

I presume so

2, Without a CCA - how can they give my information to 3rd parties?

You should write and point that out. Tell them you will definitely take action under s78(6) of the CCA 1974 if they do or if they don't remove/retract any information already geiven to CRAs.

3, Do / Can I still report them for failing to provide CCA?

That's up to you - it might be worth keeping it as a lever for item 2 above.

[chancer1]

how's this for a reply......

 

Dear Mr welcome finance man

 

Thank you for your latest communication acknowledging the CCA request failure.

 

Further more, thank you for your ‘gesture of goodwill’, which of course I will accept.

 

As discussed on the telephone, I do still however have the outstanding issue of information reported to 3rd parties, i.e. Credit Reference Agency’s.

 

I will definitely take action under s78(6) of the CCA 1974 if you do not retract any information already given to these agencies.

 

Once I have confirmation of the above in writing, I shall then forward a letter of ‘complaint satisfied’ to all parties involved in this complaint.

 

If I do not hear from you within 14 days, you shall leave me no further option but to continue my complaint with the relevant authourities.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

 

smug ex customer

[chancer1]

just a quick question - i have the freepost address for Welcome compliance dept.

 

I suppose it's ok to pass it on?????

 

Let me know who to give it to?

[steven4064]

You could post it here or PM me and I'll get it put on the 'contacts' sticky

[chancer1]

Could someone advise if the letter in post 18 is sufficient.

 

thanx

[steven4064]

Looks OK - make sure you have all the references on it (their ref, account number, etc)

[chancer1]

So... up against Monument now.

 

Had the usual rejection and 50% offer, sent letters and now they have till 24th to respond before legal action

 

They have complied and sent my T&C's - these say:-

 

these are T&C's of agreement between Barclays and Me (But they have said my account is with compucredit, not Barclays???)

 

Under default charges they advise :-

 

we will charge you for any reasonable costs or losses we incur if you break the agreement inc the following:-

 

Failure to meet minimum payment £12

Exceed limit £12

Bounced payment £12

 

surely they still have to justify the cost's??

[chancer1]

Back to WFS.....

 

they have written a final responce to the above letter (post 18 )

 

Advising that they will not remove any information that is not correct, they have a duty/obligation blah blah blah

 

BUT - If they cannot produce the cca - how do they have my permission to pass details on about me???

 

The only option they have left me, is the FOS

 

What can I do???

[chancer1]

OK - back to Monument - mcol issued - letter recieved advising will apply for stay - now recieved defence -

 

I need to write to the judge and ask that stay not be placed as these are credit card charges not bank charges, is this ok?

 

Case Number ~@~@~@~

Dear Sirs,

Could I please ask for the following letter to be shown to the judge following an application for a stay from the Defendants.

Dear Judge Murdoch,

I write regarding the stay that has been requested by Barclays Bank PLC, they have stated to myself in a letter dated 14th September 2007 that it is their intention to ask for a stay pending the outcome of the OFT case.

I would ask that a stay not be granted on this case as it concerns Credit Card charges and not Bank charges.

Yours thankfully,

chancer1