Sorry guys....

[fruitycar]

If I'm posting in the wrong forum please be gentle...I've just been through my BOS statements since Jan 2004 and have over £1400 worth of charges, I have several months missing so this will probably rise. I cannot differentiate from the statements what the charges are for apart from the over O/D ones. Do i need to get a DPA to specify the cause of each of these charges or can I reclaim all of them regardless? Also, as I am in Scotland I will fall foul of the £750 small claims limit, any ideas?

I am trying not to get anxious about following this through, but the thought of further charges brought about because of already applied charges using up my limited income makes me want to get out of what is becoming a downward spiral. grrrrrr

[fruitycar]

Once I get my hotlittle hands on te DPA,is there a time limit within I have to act on it?

[fruitycar]

I am only going to claim from when BOS were taken over by Halifax as prior to that we had received excellent service fromBOS. Delivering DPA letter by and to branch today, doI need to send when toHead Office tooat this point?

 

n.b apologies for any typos,I appear to have a dodgy space bar and dont always re-read properly before sending.

[fruitycar]

As there as been a marked difference in the way my account has been handled since BOS was taken over by Halifax,I am prepared to only claim from the time of takeover.however going through my paperwork I cannot identify when exactly this was,any clues anyone?(of course I could go off and google it,but it feels good to be communicating here!)

[fruitycar]

hope this is not bad form, replying to my own post, Hbos merger was September 2001, Thanks Google

[fruitycar]

DPA letter delivered by hand to branch today, like Woodyptk feeling a little out of my depth, but prepared to follow through to the bitter end....

courage, mon brave !

[fruitycar]

just received first batch of print outs in post, only back to April 2004, as that is when account was transferred onto HBOS system from BOS, rest are due within 10 days.

[fruitycar]

very useful reply, thanks. Do you think its worth moving up one level to summary cause?

[fruitycar]

ooohhhhh, thank you, thank you, thank you !

I thought this looked like the way to go as my claim will be more than £750, your comments have clarified things for me, looks like the Sherrifs court for me.

[fruitycar]

sorry this was supposed to be a reply on another thread and cant work out how to delete it or move it !

 

 

I've since had this reply from Robertxc

 

Probably not. Things definetly get more complicated in Summary Cause, and you won't be protected from paying costs if you lose, and those could be well into four, if not five, figures.

 

In my experience, the Sheriff will give you a lot of help in Small Claims, because it's intended for people who are representing themselves. Summary Cause is intended for lawyers, so you will find the Sheriff much less tolerant if you get the procedures wrong. The risk of having your cased kicked out is much higher in summary Cause. Also, bear in mind that one of the main reason that the banks don't defend these actions is because there is no way for them to recover their costs if they win (in Small Claims). If you do it in Summary Cause, then that disincentive no longer exists...

 

not quite as straightforward as I first read it to be.

[fruitycar]

how far down the chain of events did you have to go?

[fruitycar]

what a busy hi-lighter I have ! just finished the trawl through 6 years of statements and print-outs and arrived at a sum which will involve 3.68 claims to resolve, just about to parcel up the first £750 worth and send of the first preliminary letter tomorrow. I used the excel spread sheet to total up the amounts, then its all ready to go for the next step

I have decided to ignore the o/d interest as I was not clear on how much it was, although there is a seperate notified 'debit interest' debited from my account each month that increases relative to the amount of charges, could this be it? Might hold off the letter for a day if someone could clarify this.

[fruitycar]

prelim request letter being hand delivered to branch tomorrow. Deep breath, here goes....

[fruitycar]

I am getting confused over the time limit of claims for Scotland, I have seen 5 years stated in several posts. My prelim letter has been sent and tomorrow is the date for the LBA to go in, however my claim goes back 6 years, have I made a mistake and fallen at the first hurdle?

[fruitycar]

just had a phone call from BOS Customer relations- they have looked at my account and the charges are legitimate and basically offering me £150 in full and final settlement ! I pointed out to her that as I can only claim £750 this was the first of several claims and that the total was £2760 and so £150 fell far short of the mark. She said "I take it you are not going to accept this then" "no !" she said she will put this in writing and I then pointed out that I will be sending them a letter before action as I intend to raise a claim and that it will then also include 8% interest plus costs.

[fruitycar]

Lba ready to be delivered this evening, but still time to adjust it if you think this incorrect.

I am making a first claim of £740 and have indicated in my letter that the total amount is £2760 and that I will be making further claims to refund this. Or do you think I should leave this out and just make the first £740 claim. I'm slightly concerned as some posts seem to imply that this is playing the system and could be frowned upon. Also I would be happier to get it all back in one fell swoop.

[fruitycar]

o.k I have decided to just go for the first £740 and then repeat for the remaining amounts. So now I have a further question, my LBA is going to my bank manager, and also cc to head office. To whom at head office should it be addressed, customer Relations officer/manager, or a named bod?

[fruitycar]

LBA delivered by hand to branch letterbox and cc to head office, using the Govan Law Centre template this is what I sent,

 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxx

 

xxxxxxxxx 25-04-2006

xxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxx

xxxxxxxx

xxxxxxx

 

Dear Madam

 

Penalty & unfair charges – request for refund for xxx xxxxxxx x xxxx

xx-xx-xx xxxxxxxx

 

Charges applied to account between 28-07-2000 and 05-01-2004 totaling £740, please see attached spreadsheet.

 

I am of the view that your charges represent a penalty and are therefore irrecoverable at common law. In the Scottish case of Castaneda and Others v. Clydebank Engineering and Shipbuilding Co., Ltd. (1904) 12 SLT 498 the House of Lords held that a contractual party can only recover damages for actual or liquidated losses incurred from a breach of contract. This is also the position in English law: Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage and Motor Co Ltd [1915] AC 79.

 

Your charges do not reflect any actual loss, instead they appear to represent a lucrative profit-making scheme. UK banks have recently given evidence to the House of Commons Treasury Committee on how bank charges are calculated: "The costs are going to pay for all the people we have who pursue debt, collect debt, speak to customers and chase payments. The way these charges are arrived at is by taking these total costs and making some assumptions about the volume that is going to come through to arrive at the individual charges" (2nd report, 25 January 2005, paragraph 50

“Sir Fred Goodwin told us that for RBS "The costs are going to pay for all the people we have who pursue debt, collect debt, speak to customers and chase payments. The way these charges are arrived at is by taking these total costs and making some assumptions about the volume that is going to come through to arrive at the individual charges".)

online here: http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm200405/cmselect/cmtreasy/274/27405.htm).

 

Accordingly, the charges applied to my account are not a reasonable pre-estimate of your bank’s loss in relation to my account. Your charges would appear to represent a device to recover global losses (for example, loan defaulters, bad debt write off, including commercial lending in, and outwith, the UK).

 

Please refund these charges to my account within the next 14 days. I reserve the right to commence court proceedings without any further notice, and to seek an additional award for 8% interest plus costs.

 

On a separate note, on 5 April 2006 the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) announced that default charges which are set at more than £12 will be presumed to be unfair and unenforceable in terms of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 (SI. 1999/2083). Charges above this sum will be subject to legal action by the OFT

(press release 68/06 - online here: http://www.oft.gov.uk/News/Press+releases/2006/68-06.htm).

 

I would respectfully submit that if your organisation does not agree to immediately refund all unfair charges applied to my account, it will not meet the ‘fit and proper person’ test to hold a consumer credit license under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. In that eventuality I will submit a 1974 Act complaint to the OFT.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

 

 

Cc:

Bank of Scotland

Customer Relations

PO Box 548

Leeds

LS1 1WU

[fruitycar]

I used the Govan Law template and sent BOS this.....

 

25-04-2006

xxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxx

xxxxxxxx

xxxxxxx

 

Dear Madam

 

Penalty & unfair charges – request for refund for xxx xxxxxxx x xxxx

xx-xx-xx xxxxxxxx

 

Charges applied to account between 28-07-2000 and 05-01-2004 totaling £740, please see attached spreadsheet.

 

I am of the view that your charges represent a penalty and are therefore irrecoverable at common law. In the Scottish case of Castaneda and Others v. Clydebank Engineering and Shipbuilding Co., Ltd. (1904) 12 SLT 498 the House of Lords held that a contractual party can only recover damages for actual or liquidated losses incurred from a breach of contract. This is also the position in English law: Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage and Motor Co Ltd [1915] AC 79.

 

Your charges do not reflect any actual loss, instead they appear to represent a lucrative profit-making scheme. UK banks have recently given evidence to the House of Commons Treasury Committee on how bank charges are calculated: "The costs are going to pay for all the people we have who pursue debt, collect debt, speak to customers and chase payments. The way these charges are arrived at is by taking these total costs and making some assumptions about the volume that is going to come through to arrive at the individual charges" (2nd report, 25 January 2005, paragraph 50

“Sir Fred Goodwin told us that for RBS "The costs are going to pay for all the people we have who pursue debt, collect debt, speak to customers and chase payments. The way these charges are arrived at is by taking these total costs and making some assumptions about the volume that is going to come through to arrive at the individual charges".)

online here: http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm200405/cmselect/cmtreasy/274/27405.htm).

 

Accordingly, the charges applied to my account are not a reasonable pre-estimate of your bank’s loss in relation to my account. Your charges would appear to represent a device to recover global losses (for example, loan defaulters, bad debt write off, including commercial lending in, and outwith, the UK).

 

Please refund these charges to my account within the next 14 days. I reserve the right to commence court proceedings without any further notice, and to seek an additional award for 8% interest plus costs.

 

On a separate note, on 5 April 2006 the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) announced that default charges which are set at more than £12 will be presumed to be unfair and unenforceable in terms of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 (SI. 1999/2083). Charges above this sum will be subject to legal action by the OFT

(press release 68/06 - online here: http://www.oft.gov.uk/News/Press+releases/2006/68-06.htm).

 

I would respectfully submit that if your organisation does not agree to immediately refund all unfair charges applied to my account, it will not meet the ‘fit and proper person’ test to hold a consumer credit license under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. In that eventuality I will submit a 1974 Act complaint to the OFT.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

 

 

Cc:

Bank of Scotland

Customer Relations

PO Box 548

Leeds

LS1 1WU

[fruitycar]

I didn't send the full spreadsheet, I cut and pasted the first three columns, they can see the interest column if they don't act on this letter. and the longer they take the higher its going!

Sherry, my letter was based on the LBA template on the Govan Law site

http://www.govanlc.com

[fruitycar]

Phone call from branch manager telling me my complaint was being dealt with by customer relations and when I asked if she wanted to be kept informed of what I was doing very hastily said No ! lol

As I have also received the standard letter we are sorry..blah blah blah, have offered you 6 months charges...blah, blah blah I now have name and contact of person dealing with my 'complaint'. So I have just faxed her a copy of the LBA I sent yesterday, also going to send one to Head Office in Edinburgh, having already sent one to Leeds address.

Its very confusing knowing exactly WHO you are dealing with at HBOS

[fruitycar]

bu**er, sent cc to head office without the refence number on it, although it has account details and customer relation oficers name on it, so they should be able to trace it. Or do you think I should resend with ref number added.

Also, what do folks think about faxing stuff rather than posting?

[fruitycar]

LBA deadline expires tomorrow,so I am preparing my claim for submission. My prelim approach was made to the branch where my account is held. This was passed on to customer relations. I also sent LBA to branch and to customer relations and received phonecall fom branch mamger to say that it was being dealt with by named person at customer relations.

So my question is to whom do I address the claim, branch manager, customer relations, (named person) or to the Bank of Scotland ?

[fruitycar]

thank you......listen out for my busy little keyboard tap, tap ,tapping out that claim. Off to the Sherrif court tomorrow...

[fruitycar]

o.k. forms duly typed up, bit confused over form 1a and form 1b and the difference, but have a copy of each plus two copies of spreadsheet and will ask Clerk to help me . But yet another question, still time to alter things before I depart in the morning, do I include on my spreadsheet the 8% interest column and does the interest stop accruing at date of claim? Or does it continue accruing until Defendant agrees to settle?