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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.


      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Nat West Claimants: New/and or unsure: Please read this.

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If you've already taken the first steps towards reclaiming your bank charges from nat west - congratulations! However, please be aware that the process you're entering into is not merely a case of asking for your charges to be refunded - there's more to it than this!


By reading as many threads as possible in the nat west forum, you'll find that most of your queries are actually answered. However, for clarification, please read on to ensure that you fully understand the reclaiming process against nat west.


The OFT Announcement:

Please continue to proceed with your claim as normal. The test case is a long way off - continue to meet all deadlines, particularly if you've already filed at court.


What can I/can't I reclaim?:

This is answered fully in the sticky section (nat west charges) http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/natwest-bank/79547-natwest-charges-guide.html. Please read the sticky fully before calculating your charges.


I have an Advantage Gold Account:

In which case, you should be aware that you cannot reclaim the AG fee as this is a fee for a legitimate service. For more information on this, please read this sticky http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/natwest-bank/27521-advantage-gold-unarranged-borrowing.html. You always deduct the AG fee from any charges.


So I've calculated what they owe me, what do I do next?

You enter your charges into one of these spreadsheets 6. Interest calculation spreadsheets. This then becomes your 'schedule of charges'. At no point do you simply 'send your statements back to natwest'. You'll need your statements later on if your claim reaches the court stages. So you only ever send them your schedule of charges until you're asked to supply copy statements (e.g., in your court bundle).


Where do I send my SAR/Prelim/LBA?

You should send your letters to the addresses listed in the contacts sticky here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/natwest-bank/74934-natwest-contact-information.html.


Nat West state it will take 6-8 weeks for them to look at my claim:

If you're lucky enough to receive an acknowledgement letter from nat west, they will state that they're dealing with your claim and that it will take them 6-8 weeks to respond. You may wonder whether to wait - or whether to file at court. The choice is purely yours! If you decide to wait, you should be aware that nat west may only make you a partial offer - as opposed to an offer refunding your entire charges. However, they may offer to refund your charges in full. The decision to wait is purely your own - you either wait for an offer letter or you file at court!


I've had a 'gesture of goodwill' offer letter:

If you've received this at prelim/LBA stages and they're offering to refund your charges in full - congratulations! You should accept their offer as the 8% (s69) interest can only be awarded at the discretion of the courts - you shouldn't pursue a claim merely to 'add on' the 8% interest. If you're received this letter after filing at court - you're perfectly within your rights to ask that the court filing fee be added onto your claim. Send them a letter accepting the offer if they're prepared to add the court fee on top. If they're not prepared to add the court fee on top - continue with your claim.


I haven't had an offer from nat west and my LBA deadline has expired:

Simple - file at court! Whilst MCOL may appear to be an easier option, it's also fraught with problems at a later date due to the limited amount of space available to enter your particulars of claim (POC). Therefore, if you're considering filing at court - you should consider filing the N1 at your local county court. See herefor the N1 form and here for the Particulars of Claim (POC) to use. You'll need to print 3 copies off and attach a schedule of charges to each copy. Submit these to the court along with the court fee. You may be exempt from court fees - see here for further details.


I've filed at court, what happens next?

Nat West have 28 days to submit a defence from the date your claim is deemed as served on them. Cobbetts (their solicitors) will more than likely send you an acknowledgement of service after around 14 days - and a defence will be submitted around the 28 day mark. However, cobbetts are notorious for submitting a late defence - and the courts allow them to do so. Therefore, you shouldn't apply for judgement against them as soon as the 28 days are up as this will merely delay your claim as cobbetts will apply for a stay to give them more time to submit their defence.


I've got a defence from cobbetts:

In which case, this will more than likely have been seen a hundred times before! Post this up in your thread if you'd like further comment however.


I've had a CPR part 18 request for further information:

Unless the court orders you to respond to this, you needn't do anything. Merely send them this letter http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/natwest-bank/35672-cobbetts-cpr-18-request.html along with a copy of your schedule of charges. If the court orders you to respond to this - adapt and send this http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/natwest-bank/67743-natwest-final-stage-i-2.html#post583665


I've got an AQ (allocation questionnaire) from the court:

In which case - again........ don't panic! Download this (if N149). You can complete this online - but you can't save it. If you'd like to use the Draft Order for Directions (see here for full details) and ask for the defence to be struck out as an abuse of proces, then in the actual section G box, you should put this;


Please find the following documents attached to this allocation questionnaire;


1A) Section G - other information

1B) Sample List of settled cases

1C) Text of order made by Lincoln County Court

1D) Mullen -v- Hackney BC (1997)2 A11ER 906

2A) Draft Order for Directions


This allocation questionnaire and its attachments were sent to the defendant on **/**/**


Attachment 1A) Is here:



In the xxxxx

County Court

Claim number xxxxxxxx




xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx - Claimant




National Westminster Bank – Defendant


(Ref. Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx – enter cobbetts ref no)




N149 Allocation Questionnaire



1A) Section G - Other Information


The claimant respectfully requests that an order may be made as follows;


1. That the Defence is struck out as an abuse of process, pursuant to rule 3.4(2)(b) of the Civil Procedure Rules.


On the basis that the Defendant has filed a template defence then subsequently settled each and every other claim of this nature.


Since May 2006, I am aware of over 100 claims of this nature in which the Defendant has filed an acknowledgement of service, then a Defence, then an allocation questionnaire, then has breached the order for pre-hearing directions, then has finally settled without liability shortly in advance of the hearing or trial. A sample list of these claims, including their claim numbers, is attached (attachment 1B).


It is submitted that the defendant’s litigation strategy is flagrantly abusive of the public resource, and further, contrary to almost all of the Overriding Objective’s of the Civil Procedure Rules. It is respectfully submitted that the Defendant will continue to conduct litigation in this manner for as long as it is allowed to do so with impunity.


Please find attached a copy of an order made by Lincoln County Court (attachment 1C) in at least 10 cases similar to my own involving various high street banks. The court considered the authority of Mullen-v-Hackney London Borough Council (1997)2 A11ER 906 to be relevant. If this honourable court also considers this authority relevant, I would respectfully request that the court applies its special knowledge of the defendant’s notorious and well established conduct in similar cases when considering order in the present case. Please find attached the case to which I refer (attachment 1D)


2. In the alternative, should the court not be minded to strike out the defence, and if the claim is to proceed to allocation, the Claimant respectfully suggests that special directions may be made as per the attached draft order (attachment 2A)


I believe the proposed directions will further the Overriding Objectives in that they identify the most fundamental issues in dispute, and will allow them to be assessed in advance of the hearing so that this claim may proceed justly and expeditiously.


If the Defendant has the serious intention of defending this claim at trial as is indicated by its defence, I would contend that it is incumbent upon it to disclose such information. Further, the proposed directions are now routinely ordered in claims of this nature in the Mercantile Court in London, as well as in small claims track cases in Leicester, Derby, Chesterfield, Northampton and Mansfield County Courts.


As the law relating to contractual penalties is long established, I believe the outstanding issues to be of fact. Accordingly, I would respectfully request that this claim is allocated to the small claims track, and estimate that the hearing of the claim should last no longer than one hour.


Attachment 1B) is as follows:

In the Litigation Section on the main forum page, tick the following - claim number, bank (national westminster), date, amount, concluded only. Choose font size 8 and enter the details. Settled claims open up in a new window - you just print off all pages (couple of pages I think).


Attachment 1C)

Text of order made by Lincoln County Court


Attachment 1D)

Hackney -v- Mullen - See PDF attachment below




Attachment 2A)

Draft order for directions


Please be aware that it's up to the judge to decide whether the draft order is granted. If it is, you must comply with it. See here for further details (including which section to use on the AQ if you're sent a N150).


The AQ (plus all attachments) goes to the courts - with a copy of everything to cobbetts. :wink:


The Court has Dispensed With an AQ - What do I do next?

You could simply do nothing and wait for the court to contact you with further directions. However, it may be worthwhile to do exactly as Claimant's who receive an AQ are advised to do: make a request to the Court that the defence is thrown out as an abuse of process and attach the Draft Order for Directions.


The Court has Granted my Draft Order for Directions. What do I do?:

Well in four words, you comply with them! You send:


a) Schedule of charges.

b) Copies of all statements that show charges that have been made.

c) A statement of evidence which can be found here and here Both statements are the same - just worded differently! Remember - you'll need to include all copies of case law mentioned in the Statement of Evidence.

d) Cases and statutes as found in the basic court bundle here


Note: if the court has granted the draft order for directions - you need to be mindful of the strict deadlines. You must comply with these or your case could be struck out!


All other details pertaining to your claim can be found throughout the forum and you should familiarise yourself with the FAQ's, step-by-step instructions, templates, court bundle, etc.


Please post on your own thread for all other queries related to your bank claim.

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