puggtiracer V Woolwich

[puggtiracer]

Hi all,

 

I'm new here so please be gentle!

 

I'm in the process of reclaiming 6 years of unfair bank penalties, sorry charges, and currently we are at the stage of waiting 14 days (deadline for the Woolwich is 16th July). This is for 2 bank accounts.

 

The first one is for a joint account between me and my girlfriend. The ammount claimed is £650. They have rejected my request for payment on that (we stand by our terms and conditions etc....).

 

The second one is for a sole account in my girlfriend's name with the Wooliwich for something like £2100. Following our request for payment, they offered £1650 as a GOGW back in June. I called them to see if they would increase it, since the account was already £300 O/D thanks to their charges. They declined so I told them I'd see them in court. Then at the start of July, Barclays contacted us to offer £1750. In the same post delivery, the Woolwich contacted us to offer £1645.

 

Anyways, I signed up to this wonderful site and printed an adapted N1 claim form and submitted it. They have not yet submitted a defence or acknowledgement, and the deadline is Monday. With 8% APR, the total equates to £3400. All being well, we will win by default - time will tell.

 

I have also taken my story to the local press http://www.meltontimes.co.uk/ViewArticle.aspx?SectionID=752&articleid=3025971 - READ ALL ABOUT IT! The story is slightly misleading in that it appears I have only had one single charge but it maybe depends on how it is read?

 

I'll keep you all posted on developments as and when, but I am away next week (my girlfriend will take the forms into court for me) so any response from me will be delayed.

[welshcakes]

Hi Paul

 

WAY TO GO! That'll be one for the grandchildren's Scrapbook. Well done on you for kicking up a bit of dust.

 

Will be fascinated to see what comes through your mail box. Hopefully Emma is online to respond if anything manifests this week.

 

.... and thank you for the plug - CAG is a growing Power and it's always great to know that each new member means one more person will be getting justice.

[puggtiracer]

Hi,

 

Turns out that the Woolwich/Barclays submitted a defence on 11th July but due to postal strike action, we didn't receive notification untill Tuesday just gone (17 July 07).

 

Anyways, if they want a 'fight', I'm happy to oblige! They've got 28 days from the 16th to sort things out but I'm pretty sure it won't be us backing down!

[puggtiracer]

Today I went into the county court and requested Barclays/Woolwich defence, which they handed to me (saved time on postage).

 

In the defence, they state that they have the right to charge us £30 for a UC (unpaid direct debit) and the current fine (sorry meant 'fee') is £35 - will this make a difference?

 

Also, point 1 on their defence reads as follows:

 

"The Particulars of Claim do not provide full details or particulars of the account in question and/or the precise charges alleged to have been unlawful, or the date thereof."

 

However, on our N1, the PARTICULARS OF CLAIM states:

 

"1. The Claimant (girfriends name) has a Current Account 2xxxxxxxx ("The Account") with the Defendent which was opened on or April 2003 (

1a. The Claimants had a joint 'Open Plan' Current Account 2xxxxxxxx ("the Open Plan Account") with the Defendant which was opened on or around April 2001 and closed on or around September 2003 "

 

Point 3 further states:

 

"A list of the charges applied is attached to these particulars of claim"

 

All text was copy-and-pasted from this site for the N1.

 

Are we in trouble with this or is it just Barclays using the same MS Word template for all leters?

 

The rest of their defence seems pretty standard "We're allowed to do it.... T&C's...." etc.

 

Point 11 of their defence made me smile.....

"......the Defendant has nonetheless suffered loss and damage......."

[welshcakes]

Hi Pugg

 

I think you've read it coreectly that this has been one of their Standard Defences and in your case, they printed out the wrong standard Defence (they have at least four that I've read on here).

 

As long as your POC for N1 contained all iot should and you provided 3 SOC copies with your 3 N1 copies, the Defence is toothless.

 

If the judge wants any amendments or extension of the POC you've submitted, he/she will order it.

 

Barclays need to pay a little bit of attention

[puggtiracer]

POC and SOC?

 

Sorry, I'm new

 

Just in the process of sorting out a court bundle etc....

[welshcakes]

POC = Particulars of Claim

SOC = Schedule of Charges

[puggtiracer]

Thanks for that.

 

As I said before, I filled in the N1 using copy-and-paste with the correct text from this site.

 

The charges were attached for both accounts.

 

Surely if they have filed the wrong defence, they will lose, since they are claiming we gave them NO DETAILS for the POC, when it can clearly be seen that we did?

[welshcakes]

No, their Defence can't be Struck Out for that, besides, the core argument in their Defence doesn't rest on that first point so it's mute as far as reasoning is concerned.

 

No point in getting too uptight about it however frustrating their unprofessionalism may seem. The fact is they've put in a Standardised Defence but on the strength of that, the judge may also not look properly at the POC & note a SOC has already been attached, and may even order for it to be sent again.

 

This would be a pain but no big deal.

 

I'd just let it rest and wait to hear from the court

[puggtiracer]

Just wondering - is it worth me contacting the bank with some sort of proposal along the lines of:

 

"As you can see I'm taking you to court - perhaps we could settle this without any further embarresment to your good selves since your defence would not justify your charges........."

 

....or words to that effect?

[welshcakes]

Hi pugg

 

My personal advice is to save yourself the price of the phone call/stamp. Until it gets close to hearing, the response you get will be robot-mode, not negotiation-mode

[puggtiracer]

To be honest I'm now thinking of dropping the case (I don't currently work so no court costs have been lost) and accepting their offer.

 

What would you recomend? I need the money pretty soon and the vast majority of my charges are UC (bounced DD). Only about 80 quid or so is OD.

 

If I could continue on the basis that I am looking to reclaim DD charges, then I'll fight in court. Otherwise, I am simply not prepared to wait 2 or 3 years....

 

I'm pretty sure this question will crop up a thousand times in the comming days!

[welshcakes]

Hi Pugg

 

I doubt very much that their offer is still open - they certainly have no obligation to reinstigate it and no incentive to do so either. From their perspective, you refused offer but do not now want to pursue the matter through court either.

 

I guess it's worth a go however be very careful about how you word your next approach to them and do not discontinue any action unless you get a response in writing that they agree to settle without further litigation.

 

It is a personal choice Pugg and you have to weigh up all the unknowns; we do not know how long a Test Case will take, 8% is accruing daily until settlement, the precedent may be that the charges are illegal, it may be that they are perfectly justified (injustice has been known to paint our legislation before) or a capped figure for penalties may be set.

 

In any event, please prepare for Barclays to respond negatively ie that they made an offer andyou refused it so it's no longer an option.

[puggtiracer]

My understanding is that they have to honour their GOGW's for 2 months as they have signed an agreement to that effect.

 

Although I turned down their first offer, they sent me two more offers which I received the same dayI took the N1 into court - one from Woolwich and one from Barclays. One was about £1750 and the other about £1650.

 

Maybe it's worth noting that all of my charges are Direct Debit bounce fees and not overdraft so maybe the stay might not apply due to that?

[welshcakes]

My apologies, I dodn't know you had not rejected the other offers when you started court action.

 

If you have yet to respond to the two further offers, then that certainly puts an angle for you and yes, Barclays is currently stating that it will continue to honour offers that are regarded as still 'open' and awaiting response from customer.

 

As to the defintion of the Test Case ie whether it is purely concerned with OverDraft Fees or whether this terminology encompasses charges for bounced DD etc, is still to be outlined in the Particulars of the Case being brought by OFT.

[puggtiracer]

BRAINWAVE.......

 

We're claiming for two seperate accounts on one N1 - the offer was on the account that owes us the most money.

 

On the other account, they declined to offer us anything so I may just accept the offer for the 'big' account and for the other one, keep the claim running.

 

I'm pretty sure this would be agreed by the court - any coments?

[puggtiracer]

No need to appologise - you've been a great help!

[welshcakes]

Go for it pugg

 

If you have faxing facility, this is the securest way of proving that they receive your agreement to their offer (and date stamps it in the process). If you have the original offer to sign and return, I would still cross out the bit about confidentiality as we always recommend.

 

Also, make sure you change the wording from 'your claim' to 'this claim'. Also, I would make a copy of your acceptance and put it in to the court with a covering letter stating that agreement to settle has been reached and you will be in a position to submit a Notice of Discontinuance upon the funds clearing .... it gets it all recorded onto your court file, just incase!

[puggtiracer]

The only thing is.....I don't want to discontinue action on the other account - they offered me nothing on that one in the first place so I've nothing to lose.

 

Would I perhaps need to resumbit an N1 with revised POC?

[welshcakes]

Hi pugg

 

If you dealt with the two accounts on the one claim, then your letter to the court will state that agreement has been reached upon the matter of A/C .... and where agreement is similarly arrived at upon the matter of A/c ..., you will of course immediately submit a Notice of Discontinuance.

 

This way you are protecting the claim as a whole but informing the court of relevant progress. IF you subsequently get a cheque through for the one account settlement, you will follow up with a further clarifying letter to the court (as you are obliged to) advising that part settlement has been received.

[puggtiracer]

Today received a letter from Barclays Collections stating we owe them £424.53. This started life as a bounced direct debit back in march for the value of something like £20.

 

I called them to sort it out and they've agreed to freeze all charges relating to the debt from today, since the account is in dispute and has been since may!

 

I told them I was going to accept the offer to which they responded that any money owed to them would be deducted first.

 

20 minutes later I realised that they have continued to charge (£3 per day from the Woolwich) - I seem to remember something about them not being able to charge when the account is in dispute.

 

If I accept their offer, out of £1725 I receive only £1301 - I miss out when the debt was due to their unfair charges accrued whilst trying to claim back....unfair charges.

 

Are they taking the p**s?

 

Would it be worth me accepting the offer and then claiming back the bit they took out as 'debt' repayment when the OFT thing is done?

 

I'm going to visit the yaucht of the head man at 1 Churchill Place with a rather large drill I reckon and use it WITHOUT PREJUDICE .....

[puggtiracer]

Remember how they made me a few offers?

 

One letter from Barclays offered £1645 with a different reference and a/c number to the £1725 from the woolwich.....

 

The a/c number was changed when Barclays took over from the Wooliwich. Do you think it would be worth accepting the £1725 first and the shortly after, writting back to accept £1645?

 

They've scammed us for long enough!

[welshcakes]

Hi Pugg

 

If you are happy with the original offer, accept it but write your own Agreement Letter (as oppose to using theirs).

 

In it stipulate that you agree to the agreed figure of £1,725 in settlement of this claim and that funds should be allocated as follows... £xxx against your A/c No .... that amount being the agreed outstanding balance of that account and £xxxx [the remainder] in a cheque made payable to xxxx.

 

Go on to say, for the purpose of clarification, I would advise that despite Barclays recognition that, being in dispute, no further charges could be placed against A/c xxxxxx, a further £xxx has be applied. I am sure that this is simply the result of an automated charging system.

 

Subsequently this additional charge amount needs to be addressed by removal from the account record in order to balance your internal records.

 

If they then remove the full amount as oppose to the lower, true amount outstanding, take them to court - you additionally have your agreement letter as proof that they did not settle in accordance with your conditions of acceptance of the offer.

 

Sorry, not written very well, splitting headache at moment, hope it make sense. Obviously you need to reword it but hopefully get the essence of what I'm suggesting.

[puggtiracer]

Spliting headaches are doing the rounds....possibly due to banging heads against brick walls!

[puggtiracer]

Just had a major thought....and yes, it did hurt.....

 

Yesterday on the phone to Barclays, when I enquired as to why the charges were so high, the bloke on the other end told me that as well as transfering the 'debt' when the account was transfered, they then added £70-ish of charges. He told me I should have known about this since we should have recieved a list of the final balance (we did) and notification of the charges (to my knowledge, we didn't).

 

Surely there is something amiss here?

 

I shall tripple check the post, interogate the postman etc but would I be right in saying that, since a) the a/c was in dispute and b) we were not notified of any charges, they are in the wrong?