SLC Cannot Supply The Original Agreement

[Movingon]

Firstly, under the Consumer Credit Act, if you request a signed copy of the original agreement, they must provide it within 12 WORKING DAYS by Law. If they take longer than that plus 30 days to provide it, they have committed a criminal offence.

 

So - the debt is now unenforceable already. You are being extremely generous. If they have entered a "Default" on your credit file, you now have a good case for getting it removed as there IS NO DEBT.

[Movingon]

Would you have to pay to see a copy of it ? And also, where can I read about this 12 day rule ?

 

You can read about the rule in the Consumer Credit Act 1974. And the Statutory Maximum Fee for this kind of request is £1.

 

SurreyScouse you're PROMPTING ME!!! I gave SOME info at least!! LOL

 

And as regards paying it all back, you KNOW it's true.

[Movingon]

I heard about this a while back and spoke to the national debt line about it and was told that if you done this they could default you account.

 

Either you misunderstood or they gave you criminally inaccurate advice. They can only issue a default notice if you fail to pay.

 

You are entitled in Law to make the requests I refer to, and they can't do anything except reply to your request. Any default placed on your account as a result of a request like this should be vigorously defended.

[Movingon]

update....

got a confirmation letter last friday STATING..account is now closed and the debt is now written off and account balance is £0.00 owed, i then phoned them stating i have a copy of my credit file infront of me and told them i wanted the default removing asap, they said they would look in to it, got a letter today saying they have requested the removal of the default..hehe

going back to the point do i ask for the money back that i have paid to them, so i did, they said an offer will be in the post in the next 48 hours.......lol

 

That is fantastic news BBM!! I had no idea they would capitulate so completely!!

 

Well done mate - have a pint when you get your money back!

[Movingon]

Absolutely brilliant. Again, well done BBM - I'm well pleased when the plan comes together.

[Movingon]

don't want to sound naive or anything here,but what happens if after 12 days without an agreement being produced,you write to the creditor denying the debt,stop payments etc etc,and then they come up with it?Are you still entitled to tell them to go away?

 

I just want to be sure of this......

 

After the 12 working days, you DON'T write to them. You just wait. After the 30 days you complain to Trading Standards. THEN you write to them saying "This debt is unenforceable, get rid of my defaults, and by the way you owe me (x) pounds paid to you against this unenforceable debt".

 

There is no point WHATEVER writing to them after 12 working days and gloating all over their arses for that exact reason; however after 30 days they have committed a criminal offence, and that puts a whole different light on things.

[Movingon]

Sorry to be really dense, but is it 12 working days of receiving the letter?

 

I'm just wondering as I know that some companies take forever to open the letters, and can claim to be "really busy". If they're so ''busy' it takes more than 12 and then 30 days, is this just their tough luck then?

 

letter goes tomorrow.

 

It's 12 working days from them receiving the letter and payment; and they are deemed to have received it 2 days after you posted it.

[Movingon]

They can enforce it now, yes. After 12 but before 30 days, they are only "in default" while the agreement remains missing. Once they find it, it's all back on track unfortunately; although you could still (if you wanted to) complain to trading standards about their tardiness. In these circumstances however TS would be unlikely to take any further action.

[Movingon]

I keep reading, but not seeing. I'm sorry.

 

Is it also 30 working days?

 

Is there an online version of the Consumer Credit act 1974 online somewhere?

 

Thanks

GiB

 

No - 12 working days, 30 calendar days.

 

And I've been looking for The Act for AGES... if anyone DOES find it online without subscribing to a Legal Eagles website then please let me know.

[Movingon]

if it's 30 calendar days-I have just wiped an £1100 loan with Lowell Financial,and as First Direct didn't supply me with the agreement till 32 days,£2300 with them....

 

am I correct with the First Direct case here?

 

First Direct have committed a criminal offence in relation to this debt. Do you really think, having done so, that they will take you in front of a court to enforce it? You're not quite in the position where you can ignore it; they HAVE sent the agreement. However you are in an almost unassailable negotiating position; and a complaint to Trading Standards would get them on the hop to accommodate you, trust me!!

 

Lowell Financial can kiss your proverbial mate; you owe them nothing. Complain to TS straight away, and when that's done, write to them demanding the removal of any defaults they may have placed. If none, then I believe you can simply sit back and wave fingers at them... ignore them completely. Be smug - you've earned it!! If there are no defaults though, don't bother writing to them; simply let TS deal with it. If you have paid them any money, write them an LBA requiring the money returned; there IS NO DEBT and therefore any money of yours they have was obtained under false pretences. If they don't send it back, take them to court for it. But I think they will.

[Movingon]

is this what your looking for Stonelaughter?

 

http://www.johnantell.co.uk/CCA1974.htm

Fantastic how did you DO THAT?!

[Movingon]

Let’s see if i got this right posted cca request of to them on the 11 July had no reply from them the £1 payment was credit to my visa card on the 19th July so the 12 working days are up. Question is do i wait 30 days from the 11th when i sent the letter or when i know they got the money. They not even acknowledged the letter.

 

Your letter (and therefore payment) is deemed received two days after you posted it. Therefore your 30 days begins on the 13th July. What they choose to do with your payment when they receive it, is utterly irrelevant.

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LTWFB: Yes it's fine but don't forget the heading "LETTER BEFORE ACTION" and DO NOT state "you have now committed a criminal offence" - you are not a judge. State "I now believe that you may have committed a criminal offence".

 

pford: Trading Standards deal with it - they may well prosecute but I don't know what the punishment will be; possibly a removal of their CCA Licence.

[Movingon]

OK, today I have recieved a letter from RBS with the folowing:

 

Please find enclosed a copy of your credit agreement [which is dated 0107-02], regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974, as requested. I regret that we have been unable to locate a copy of your original signed application form from our archived records.

 

What do I do now?

 

Give them the remainder of the 30 days? I also asked for the staements for 6 years at the same time. These will follow 'under seperate cover' apparently...

 

Thoughts please.

 

What have they actually sent you? Is the document they sent a full Credit Agreement Regulated by.... etc, signed by you and by a representative of the company? If so, thay have fulfilled part of their obligation; they should send "a statement of account" also. If it's NOT a "properly executed" agreement (i.e. signed properly by both parties) then they have met NO PART of their obligation. If that situation continues past the end of the 30 days, hit them with the enforcement authorities.

 

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[Movingon]

You should report them to Trading Standards (Consumer Direct) straight away... they are courting prison sentences. It may also be worth involving the Police although I'm pretty sure all aspects of CCA enforcement are delegated to TS. Your letter was absolutely right above and they have NO RECOURSE. You should now write to the DCA, send them a copy of the letter you sent and state that you will enter into no further correspondence with them as the account has been in dispute for some time and that they are therefore holding the account unlawfully.

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[Movingon]

Letter is fine; although to be honest I would be tempted to simply stop paying and leave it at that. It is entirely your call however.

 

Which CRA's have you checked your credit file with? There are three (they are all commercial organisations and therefore hold different data) Experian, Call Credit and Equifax.

 

Check all three and if nothing is recorded on you then you arevery lucky and should keep schtumm.

[Movingon]

Write to them and state that as they acknowledge that the debt cannot be enforced you have ceased payments permanently. Let them know that unless they remove the default from your record immediately you will contact TRading Standards and the Information Comissioner with a complaint that they are processing your data unlawfully.

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[Movingon]

Yasmin, is this for a catalogue account?

 

And, is this true:

 

[/b]

 

I don't see how they can force you to pay it without usign the court? And, the agreement becomes unenforcable so they can't chase you for the debt, becausee that would mean they were enforcing some of the terms of the agreement.

 

They are just doing the standard thing of trying to bully the punter into paying; however they don't seem to have realised that by doing so this time they have committed an offence. In fact, the person who committed the Offence would be the person whose signature appears at the bottom... or the person whose NAME appears at the bottom if the signature is illegible.

[Movingon]

Cool - however I don't think the Data Protection Act 21988 has been written yet! LOL. You might want to refer to the Act of 1998 instead

 

The "Cool" smiley always happens on VBulletin forums; it (wrongly) assumes that eight-right bracket is the cool smiley. if you want to put a bracket after an 8, do so with a space. (Data Protection Act 1998 ) instead of (Data Protection Act 1998)

[Movingon]

Thanks for that, LOL:-D So that letter ok to send , in your opinion?

 

I think so but take note of the bottom line of my signature

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[Movingon]

Personally I think they have misread the rules... they have read "cannot be enforced by Law" and they think that this means they can only enforce the alleged debt WITHOUT going to court. However what they SHOULD have read was "cannot, by Law, be enforced" which means that they cannot lawfully enforce the debt at all... in other words they have NO RECOURSE.

 

I really hope they try because to continue to pursue an unenforceable debt is a criminal offence as I said above. However - I am not certain whether a Court has to rule on its unenforceability first to make it an Offence!!

[Movingon]

It may assist if I opine that I do not understand by which authority pursuing a debtor for an unenforcable debt is a criminal offence...

 

I'm going to look this up now but I understood the CCA 1974 to define the offence of continuing to pursue an unenforceable agreement (paraphrased). I'll come back to you!

 

Well, I looked and I couldn't find anything so I guess you are right... but I'm pretty sure that Courts would take a dim view of it anywayz.

[Movingon]

If moorcroft have purchased the debt legitimately then they ought to have the original agreement in their hands already. If they don't then they are pursuing it unlawfully (maybe even illegally).

[Movingon]

Thats interesting, as I have CL Finance pursuing a debt they don't have the original agreement for. GE Capital have provided them with a microfiched illegible copy, but they do not (as yet) have the original. Are you sure on the pursuing unlawfully angle, as I'll bash off a letter this afternoon if you are (bash off? OMG! ).

 

I thought they would only have to produce the original in court, and then only if the defendant attended and asked to see it.

 

Well, the Judge would probably ask to see it if the other party were present. But you ay be right from a practical POV. However, it was my understanding that part of the Assignment process when purchasing a debt was that the rights and responsibilities of the original creditor were passed to the purchaser. This would mean also passing the agreement over... so theoretically they should already have it. I don't think that this could be enforced though; as long as they can get it to you inside the 12 working plus 30 calendar they are covered; after the 12 working days they cannot continue to enforce until the documentation arrives, but once it does they can resume. So - if they try to enforce while your request for a CCA is outstanding they're on a sticky wicket but as long as they can produce it in court and they don't exceed the criminality threshold then they may be able to resume once they've sent it to you.

[Movingon]

s.40 Administration of Justice Act 1970 - which states that they can't do certain things to enforce collection of a debt or they are guilty of an Offence. It lists some things they definintely can't do but it does not exclude other things.

 

s.1 Protection from Harrassment Act 1997 - which states that if a course of action is pursued which "would seem to a reasonable person to be harrassment" then it is harrassment and an offence. A "course of action" has to be two or more actions by the same "person" (a "person" can be an organisation).