Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • Makers of insect-based animal feed hope to be able to compete with soybeans on price.View the full article
    • Thank you for posting up the results from the sar. The PCN is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4. Under Section 9 [2][a] they are supposed to specify the parking time. the photographs show your car in motion both entering and leaving the car park thus not parking. If you have to do a Witness Statement later should they finally take you to Court you will have to continue to state that even though you stayed there for several hours in a small car park and the difference between the ANPR times and the actual parking period may only be a matter of a few minutes  nevertheless the CEL have failed to comply with the Act by failing to specify the parking period. However it looks as if your appeal revealed you were the driver the deficient PCN will not help you as the driver. I suspect that it may have been an appeal from the pub that meant that CEL offered you partly a way out  by allowing you to claim you had made an error in registering your vehicle reg. number . This enabled them to reduce the charge to £20 despite them acknowledging that you hadn't registered at all. We have not seen the signs in the car park yet so we do not what is said on them and all the signs say the same thing. It would be unusual for a pub to have  a Permit Holders Only sign which may discourage casual motorists from stopping there. But if that is the sign then as it prohibits any one who doesn't have a permit, then it cannot form a contract with motorists though it may depend on how the signs are worded.
    • Defence and Counterclaim Claim number XXX Claimant Civil Enforcement Limited Defendant XXXXXXXXXXXXX   How much of the claim do you dispute? I dispute the full amount claimed as shown on the claim form.   Do you dispute this claim because you have already paid it? No, for other reasons.   Defence 1. The Defendant is the recorded keeper of XXXXXXX  2. It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant. 3. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. 4. In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant. 5. The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an additional sum not included in the original offer. 6. In a further abuse of the legal process the Claimant is claiming £50 legal representative's costs, even though they have no legal representative. 7. The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all. Signed I am the Defendant - I believe that the facts stated in this form are true XXXXXXXXXXX 01/05/2024   Defendant's date of birth XXXXXXXXXX   Address to which notices about this claim can be sent to you  
    • pop up on the bulk court website detailed on the claimform. [if it is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time] . When you select ‘Register’, you will be taken to a screen titled ‘Sign in using Government Gateway’.  Choose ‘Create sign in details’ to register for the first time.  You will be asked to provide your name, email address, set a password and a memorable recovery word. You will be emailed your Government Gateway 12-digit User ID.  You should make a note of your memorable word, or password as these are not included in the email.<<**IMPORTANT**  then log in to the bulk court Website .  select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box. .  then using the details required from the claimform . defend all leave jurisdiction unticked  you DO NOT file a defence at this time [BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ] click thru to the end confirm and exit the website .get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim type your name ONLY no need to sign anything .you DO NOT await the return of paperwork. you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.
    • well post it here as a text in a the msg reply half of it is blanked out. dx  
  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like

Civil Enforcement Ltd (again!)


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 4753 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Hi,

 

Having read this issue with Civil Enforcement Ltd i have taken the great advice and decided to fight these Sharks i was going to go down the route of ignore but decided against it.

 

I got a letter with them wanting £75 pounds this was my reply

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

With regards to your Parking fine "I refer to the above Parking Notice and subsequent warning letter demanding payment of a penalty charge several months later. You state in your correspondence that terms and conditions were 'clearly and prominently displayed' on your client’s premises and therefore the inference is that by entering your client’s premises the driver of a vehicle has a legal obligation to abide by, and pay any charges incurred, under the terms and conditions, if you can supply me with photographic evidence of the driver entering and exiting I will be able to check the possible driver at the time.

I also noticed you wish to charge £10 for this evidence that I will refuse to pay.

 

I have now recieved a letter today increasing the amount to £150 my reply is now going to be unless anyone thinks otherwise or maybe change?

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

With regards to your Parking fine "I refer to the above Parking Notice and subsequent warning letter demanding payment of a penalty charge several months later.

I have asked you to provide the photographic evidence to substantiate your claim against the driver and you have not done so. I feel that I have done all that I can to assist you. Unless you provide evidence to substantiate your claim against the driver I shall be unable to help you further in this matter as my previous correspondence requested.

 

 

As you may be aware, in Scottish law, there is no such procedure whereby any privately owned Parking Control company may lawfully impose penalty charges upon any vehicle owner parked in private property, even where there is a contract in place between the owners of the property and your company. This may be standard practice in England! but it is not in Scotland.

 

I have taken legal advice on this matter and I am advised that you have no statutory powers to issue penalty charges in Scotland. Your actions are unlawful and may be tantamount to extortion and theft. I refer you to Scots case law whereby:

‘In Scotland, wheel-clamping on private land is illegal. It was banned under a ruling in the sheriff court by the case of Black v Carmichael, 1992, SCCR 709, where a sheriff ruled that wheel-clamping was found to constitute criminal offences of extortion and theft.’

 

I am advised that Civil Penalty Charge procedures may be regarded in similar terms and as such, since there is no offence to enforce, you have no basis in law under which you have a right to take court action. You should also be advised that in your letter you warn that subsequent enforcement action would be carried out. I should advise you that English Bailiffs have no legal authority in Scotland and any action taken by them would be regarded as a criminal offence. There is no obligation in Scotland to pay charges to private companies who base their demands on contract or trespass law (not criminal law or decriminalized parking regulations) and have no powers under any Road Traffic legislation to force a vehicle owner to declare who was driving the car at the time of the alleged trespass or breach of contract, i.e. the person who trespassed or breached the alleged contract. This is not a Penalty Charge Notice as prescribed in law, even if it purports to be so. It is an invoice for alleged breach of accepted contractual terms or an offer to settle before court action for damages due to trespass.

 

If you persist in this matter, I will have no option but to report this to the police as threatening behaviour tantamount to extortion and theft.

 

If you intend to raise an action in court I am advised that I should obtain from you a copy of the agreement between yourselves and your client under which you have a legal right to impose parking charges, together with a copy of the appropriate legislation upon which you intend to found jurisdiction, In order that I may consult my solicitor in order to prepare a defense to any action. I should be grateful, therefore, if you would forward these to me as soon as possible."

 

Kind Regards

xxx

 

just to let you all know i wasnt even in the country when this awful crime took

place :D.

Edited by AcidC4
fonts?
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Replies 1.6k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

Thanks for that Nick i shall have my phone in hand to call the Mother-in-law just in case they travel up to Scotland :D

 

My concern was in there scary letter it said

 

Failure to pay the full amount within seven days of this notice will result in

us issuing an immediate County Court Summons against you (Hard job there then since there isn't such a thing in Scotland as a County Court?)

 

http://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/

 

A warrant may then be issued to Bailiffs to recover the amounts due,plus

court fees,bailiff costs and intrest (Hard job there again since Bailiffs are illegal in Scotland for there own protection)

Edited by AcidC4
website
Link to post
Share on other sites

My cousin works for the inland revenue as a Tax inspector very nice guy.

 

He told me that if they get enough complaints about a company they will

investigate them he also said you dont even have to leave your name etc.

 

It just so happened i was telling him about my ordeal and he didnt seem to

pleased with the threats i had been getting :D

 

Wonder if there book keeping is in order? since there such crooks!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I know about VAT and tax but once again, getting parking tickets (or alleged parking tickets) from a PPC is not something that the man in the street will write (or phone) the Inland Revenue to complain about. They may complain to the MP. They may complain to the OFT. But, not complain to the Inland Revenue.

 

 

 

I think you will find its very easy to become a target for The Inland Revenue in life its not what you know but who you know.

 

They dont even need a justified reason to investigate and when they

start they have to find somthing even if its just £1 lots of hassle for

them hit there pocket its the best way :D

 

Well I wrote to them I then got the double figure and wrote to them

again so I am awaiting stage 3.

 

I havent even said if i was the driver or not save that for court :-D

not that they will even attempt to go that far and i bet there on this forum reading everything in here so i say GET IT RIGHT UP YA! :-D

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Update it has now been several weeks and not a PEEP from them am starting to feel left out :(

 

I have laminated the threats from these SHARKS and put them up on my wall with my letter of responses :D

 

Was hoping to fill at least oneside of my wall :(

 

Might go to KFC this Sunday and then go Tenpin bowling and accidently leave my car in the KFC carpark :D

 

Maybe somthing will come tomorrow in the post from them i hope :(

Edited by AcidC4
spullin mastook lol
  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Yadagi,

 

As you will see some people choose to ignore others will use the template letters in here.

 

I decided to not ignore and attack back but its your call you have to decided can you be bothered with letters back and fourth or do you want to get on with your life and ignore the fools.

 

Remember that they have to prove who was the driver not the other way about so ignore works well :D

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

 

 

(Drum Roll) I have now offically reached stage 3 :D

 

Stage One we want £75.00 off you :D

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

With regards to your Parking fine "I refer to the above Parking Notice and subsequent warning letter demanding payment of a penalty charge several months later. You state in your correspondence that terms and conditions were 'clearly and prominently displayed' on your client’s premises and therefore the inference is that by entering your client’s premises the driver of a vehicle has a legal obligation to abide by, and pay any charges incurred, under the terms and conditions, if you can supply me with photographic evidence of the driver leaving and exiting I will be able to check the possible driver at the time.

I also noticed you wish to charge £10 for this evidence that I will refuse to pay.

 

Stage Two we want £150.00 off you :D

 

 

I refer to previous correspondence I do not feel that you are acting reasonably in this matter

 

I note that you have increased the amount of the alleged debt. Given that you have failed to substantiate and support your claim that I am indebted to you; this is unreasonable, inappropriate and, quite probably, unlawful.

I have asked you to provide the photographic evidence to substantiate your claim against the driver and you have not done so. I feel that I have done all that I can to assist you. Unless you provide evidence to substantiate your claim against the driver I shall be unable to help you further in this matter as my previous correspondence requested

 

You should also be advised that in your letter you warn that subsequent enforcement action would be carried out using Bailiffs. I should advise you that English Bailiffs have no legal authority in Scotland and any action taken by them would be regarded as a criminal offence

 

 

I note you intend to raise an action in court within seven days I am advised that I should obtain from you a copy of the agreement between yourselves and your client under which you have a legal right to impose parking charges, together with a copy of the appropriate legislation upon which you intend to found jurisdiction, In order that I may consult my solicitor in order to prepare a defence to any action. I should be grateful, therefore, if you would forward these to me as soon as possible

I also note your comments about debt collectors. Given that this debt is in dispute I shall simply advise them that the debt is in dispute and they will have to refer back to you I will welcome the opportunity to defend your allegation in court and am confident of success. Of course you will be required to produce the evidence that I have requested and you have failed to provide. You will also have to answer to the court why you failed to do so.

Other than as described above, any further correspondence from you or any other party in relation to this matter may result in a complaint to the authorities under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

have a nice day xx

 

Stage Three is now a letter from the SHARKS

 

Cessation of Correspondance

 

We refer to your recent letter,

 

We have already expended considerable time responding to your representations.We have already clearly stated our case and cannot corresponding with you. (does that even make sense the last part?)

 

The Decision that has been sent is final, and your continued failure to make payment will result in this matter being forwarded to a collection agency for recovery.

 

 

your Faithfully,

 

UNREADABLE NAME

 

anyone else got to stage 4 yet?

 

Should i just ignore them or maybe hit them with a charge?

 

I am a bit annoyed to be honest as this letter isnt going to match the computer block mailing ones on my wall that i have laminated!!:(

 

I shall put lots of xxxxxxxxx as you get a very very quick response XXXXXXXXXXX

Edited by AcidC4
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 6 months later...
style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 4753 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...