abroadgirl v Abbey

[jansus]

Hi

 

The one area I really know nothing about is the bank taking your benefits in charges - I have read several different things on this so would not like to comment on this.

 

 

However I will post some links to threads that might help you .

 

Also some information on the banking code.

 

Apparently there is a board that I think overseas the banking code who has asked for evidence of cases where the banks are not treating people sympathetically - and I think forcing you to go to court over this if they are aware of your situation is a breach of the code.

 

I have posted some up to date info on Simons thread - but I will point you in the direction of a draftt letter - (however it is not approved by this site)

 

If it helps I would personalise it as much as possible and then clearly identify yourself as a hardship case and asked to be considered on that basis - if you do not get a reply then try what simon has done.

 

I assume you sent your details to the moderator when they were collecting information on cases to send to the FSA?

 

If not let me know as we are still collecting cases.

 

Jan

p.s

 

I think the Abbey can rely on their original defence in court - they do not have to send a bundle - but then would not be able to use more documents in court.

 

If you send a letter I would send it to the Abbey/their solicitors as well.

[jansus]

Success at A and L via hardship case route

 

An idea - any comments from mods and others? (

 

Banofi v A&L #WON#

[jansus]

Hi

 

Having read your thread again - can I check I have this correct.

 

1) you have on several occasions in writing identified yourself as a hardship case to Abbey

2) The charges have been deducted from your benefits money

3) your financial circumstances have been caused by a change in circumstances caused by illness

4) you appealed against the stay on the above basis ( did you use a forn from here or your own letter?

5) the Abbey have still refused to consider your case and have basically said they will just attend the court case and sort it out there?

 

If so i dont hink you need to do anything to the courts at the moment - but you do need to try and get them to settle before hand and approach the FOS

 

can you answer the above and then we will go from there.

 

 

Jan

[jansus]

To XXXXbank

 

 

From XXXXX

Reference account number XXXXXXX

Dear sir / madam

 

I refer to several previous letters reagrding the above account. As you are aware there is due to be a hearing regarding the lifting of the stay at XXXX court on XXXXX

 

I wish to strongly complain that when you are fully aware of my circumstances that you have refused to consider my case outside the court system as is indicated by the conditions of the waiver.

 

 

Therefore I wish to draw to your attention a condition of the waiver of claims regarding Overdraft charges . This is an extract from:

FSA waiver statement 27/7/2007 & Memo to Treasury select committee 9/10/2007

“Consumers can still complain about new charges incurred.

Consumers who have received a final response from the bank/building society which does not include an offer

Consumers still have the option of complaining to FOS. However, the banks and building societies have also requested that the FOS does not consider any complaints about unauthorised overdraft charges until resolution of the test case.

Consumers who are in very difficult financial circumstances - 'hardship cases'

Banks and building societies will have to conduct a filtering process to ensure that cases of genuine hardship are still dealt with during the waiver period. Cases of hardship would still be entitled to be referred to, and dealt with by, the FOS.

Consumers who want to complain to the bank/building society about other issues

Consumers can continue to use the existing complaints process to seek redress about other financial matters, such as insurance, mortgages and current accounts. However, if their complaint relates to the level, fairness or unlawfulness of unauthorised overdraft charges, that element of the complaint will be registered but not dealt with.”

Also as I am sure you are aware the banking code requirement for banks to deal with persons in financial difficulty sympathetically and positively has not been affected by the waiver.

 

 

 

I feel there is nothing to be gained at this point from questioning the level of charges applied; my position is merely that the agreement reached between the banks, FSA, FOS and OFT prior to the OFT v banks case being submitted to the High Court at the end of July clearly states that responsibility for determining and resolving a ‘hardship case’ lies with the bank, that the waiver granted to banks, allowing complaints re charges to be held pending the outcome of the High Court case does not apply to ‘hardship’ cases, and banks should therefore seek to identify and resolve such cases; further that where agreement cannot be reached between a customer and a bank the bank must issue a final response letter as a precursor to the FOS seeking to resolve matters.

 

My further position is that I firmly believe it will be possible for you to address my concerns such that I deem the matter settled negating any need for involvement of the FOS or closer to home the continued involvement of the Chief Executives office.

 

 

I am therefore (again) identifying myself to you to one of the cases where the excessive charges have been a cause or have worsened my present position . I (again)attach a summary of my present position for your consideration. As my case has now been in progress for XXXX weeks I would expect a response within 14 days.

 

If I do not receive a reply within this time I will have refer this matter to the FOS and FSA

If you are unwilling to consider my request then you are under obligation to provide me with a written response indicating that you do not consider my case to be one of financial hardship and the reasons why together with your specific criteria on which you are basing your refusal .

 

I would again point out there has been considerable correspondence and phone calls concerning this matter before – and I regret having to bring this to your attention again ( attach any written copies)

 

The fact that I have commenced legal action is not a factor as the ability of the banks to request stays was made with proviso that banks would continue to consider hardship cases.

The basis of the financial hardship I am experiencing is: - (attach Personal sheet )

As indicated, I do not, with respect, wish to revisit the question of the fairness of the charges, or of whether some element of each charge was fair.

 

I fully believe that my difficulties meet any definition or criteria of hardship.

My total claim at the moment stands at £xxxxx excluding S69 interest.

 

Many thanks for agreeing to examine matters. I look forward to your reply.

 

 

Kind regards,

[jansus]

Hi

 

I suggest you re-type this adding anything else personal- such as dates of previous letters phone calls etc

 

Attach a brief statement - or the income /expenditure sheet on here.

 

Send to the Abbey and a copy to the solicitor

 

Then post up the reply on here

 

does that help?

 

Jan

 

Also if you were not on the list sent to the FSA - please let me know as we are still collecting cases

 

Jan

[jansus]

having seen simons good news - hope you keep going - I am sure the intervention of th FOS had some influence;)

 

jan

[jansus]

hi sorry to hear you have not been feeling well.

 

did you manage to get your letters off?

 

Have you had no reply

 

I expect you saw the case in A&L "my day in court" whwre they were supposed to have a court case in january - but after doing letter they have got their money?

 

Best wishes jan

 

L

[jansus]

hi janus tyvm thats a brill letter tyvm

yes i emailed about sept/oct for the hardship cases and if successfull that they would contact me as ive not heard anything as yet i carnt remember if it was to alanfromdarby not sure but i sent the email where mods said and where to email to

think i still have the copy but again i know you all have alot so this is why i sent it and just waiting as i know one way or another id hear something

tyvm one and all

hugs

abg

 

By the way I would not rely on getting a result on the basis of this as there were a whole group of cases sent as examples and personal details were not enclosed - so thats why I hope you have done your own letter since.

 

Also CRFX was dealing with the pushing of the FSA and he is not posting on the site any more .

 

Jan

[jansus]

Hi just checking how you are - have you recieved any replies to letters - if not keep fighting

 

try doing what simon did - call the FOS and see if they can help.

 

Dont give up yet

 

Jan

[jansus]

Hi

 

Hope you are having a good christmas

 

You have a few days before your hearing - what about one last letter posted to Abbey/sol andFOS - take a copy to the court.

 

 

 

Case number xxxxx

 

 

Hardship situation

I refer to all previous correspondence and my attempts to convey to you that as a hardship case my situation , under the terms of the waiver agreement, my claim should be considered outside the court system. I have no wish to take this matter to court but as you have ignored all my efforts to resolve this matter before January 8th - you have left me with no choice.

 

I am dissapointed that although you are fully aware of my circumstance you are willing to take this case so far, especially when I am well aware you have settled other hardship cases recently.

 

Regards

 

Then try calling the FOS and ask for their help

 

What have you to loose

 

 

Jan

[jansus]

Hi again

 

Other than a phone call to the FOS I am not sure what you can do. Why not try that at the begining of next week - explain it is urgent as your court case is imminent. Ask them how Abbey can do this when they are fully aware of your circumstances and the stress of the court case is pushing you to the edge and making you ill. It worked for Simon.

 

To be honest I dont think much will happen if it gets to court as the case is now so close the court wont have much choice - the best outcome will be that

 

1) you will have your say about what you think about Abbey

2) the court could rule that they freeze the charges on your account

3) you may get some clarification about imposing charges on benefits money ( I am not an expert on this )

 

the next stage after the court case would to ask this site if you can get any help with publicity about how they have treated you.

 

I would try and make some notes about what you want to talk about in court and take a copy of the agreement from the FSA website about why the bank should have considered your case outside the court system and take copies of all your emails and faxes showing how hard you have tried to keep this case out of court.

 

 

jan

[jansus]

Hi

 

please dont let all this get to you

 

We are all trying to help it is just that we are not experts either.

 

If you can you need someone to go with you - which court is it? Maybe we can ask around the site to see if someone can be with you.

 

To be honest as I said all that you are going to achieve I think is to make the judge realise what they have put you through. I think they will get a stay on the case. Please try calling the FOS direct just say you have sent an urgent fax and really need to speak to someone. One phone call from them might sort the abbey out.

 

Lets also try and get the name of the person that Simon dealt with form Abbey from his thread and I will compose one last letter that you can email or fax direct to them.

 

Jan

[jansus]

Right I see now that Ronan ( mr /mrs? first name?) Is the contact that you and Simon have at Abbey

 

is this customer service Department?

 

 

Here is your plan of action.

 

1) first thing Wed am call FOS and in plain simple english just tell them how desperate you are. You have faxed and emailed Abbey on many occasions. You have to rely on benefits and due to your health etc the charges have worsened your financial position. You can not understand why they are dragging this to court as you understood hardship cases should be dealt with outside the court system. You are an urgent case and you need something done now. You dont feel you can cope with the hearing and you need some help.

 

2) We will ask around the site to see if the worse comes to the worse if someone can come with you to court. Maybe there is a way we can prepare a written statement to put before the judge rather than you having to speak - maybe Zootscoot can help with this.

 

 

Also we can get one last email together to send to Abbey ?

 

something like?

 

 

As a result of your last correspondence , I see that you are determined to continue to deal with my claim within the court system. Considering you are fully aware that I am a severe hardship case and have been aware of this fact for sometime, I must make you aware that your decision is putting severe stress on me and worsening my health. I feel that considering you have paid out on other cases recently I am entitiled to a full written explanation as to why you are treating me like this. You have made no attempt to ease my situation or treat me in a respectful manner and I am frankly disgusted that you are willing to deal with this in court when I have made every attempt to settle this outside the court system. This case has been the last option open to me, as since the waiver agreement I have tried on many occasions to resolve this matter and I will again be contacting the FOS for their help.

 

 

What do you think?

[jansus]

hi I am trying to send you pm- is your folder full?

 

jan

[jansus]

Hi

 

I see you are getting lots of offers of help

 

Also I have an offer from someone else who is in your area.

 

 

I think that as your thread is long they want to know if you mentioned anything to the court officially about them taking your benefits money - that is in the POC or the appeal agaoinst stay. If you only mentioned it in letters /faxes/emails to the Abbey then that is different.

 

if you can not scan or post the POC and just used the standard forms from the libary here then just say that.

 

I think it is just the fact of we need to clairify on what basis you appealed against the stay?

 

Is that right folks?

 

Jan

[jansus]

I am not an expert but I dont think the courts will want any more paperwork than what you sent in with your appeal papers

 

By all means amend your spread sheet by adding on any subsequent charges - if you were awarded the monies the courts could calculate the interest - but I repeat - I think this may be out of the courts hands as the case is imminent they will have no choice but to stay the case. So please dont get over anxious. I think you have just got to go along - state how upset and distressed you are that they have not attempted to look at your case when it is so obviously a hardship case.This should have been dealt with outside the court system . And maybe aim for asking the court to freeze any further charges while the case is in progress.

 

 

Let the court do the talking and just answer the questions the best you can - this is about the stay - not the legalities of the charges - so you will not be expected to argur all of that.

 

you have lots of offers of help - so I am sure you will be fine.

 

 

to be honest I think Abbey have had every chance to sort this out - so although I said try one more fax - maybe you have done everything you can and maybe you should just let the court have their say on the matter.

 

Jan

[jansus]

by the way - i think a little adverse publicity for the abbey might be justified after the case???

 

jan

[jansus]

hi

 

just going to devon for the weekend - but will be thinking of you.

 

I am sure you have got some good help now and just hope your ordeal is not too stressful - and even if you dont get a result I hope they give the Abbey a hard time.

 

Jan

[jansus]

fantastic work stone. So glad some practical help has been offered to this particular case.

 

Best of luck for tomorrow. Even if the case is still stayed at least the courts will know what Abbey has put Abroadgirl through.

 

Jan

[jansus]

thinking of you both

 

jan

[jansus]

Hi

 

yes well done - some interesting comments regarding the charges against benefits. This result was as I expected - however I still feel that Abbey should be bought to task for not adhering to the FSA agreement and allowing this case to go to court. It should have been dealt with outside the system as a hardship case. Also do we really think the case will be "over" in 8 days?

 

Hope the afternoon was not too stressful for those involved.

 

I think ABG, have a rest - watch the case - and then go from there.Use it as an opportunity to re-charge your batteries and gather any more relevant info on our particular case (particularly benefits angle)- and keep on fighting. You have a whole army behind you now.

 

Jan:)

[jansus]

Hi abg

 

just checking how you are?

 

jan

[jansus]

I think in your position I would write back (copy to FOS) something like

 

I refer to your letter dated XXX . This is a totally inadequate reply to my complaint and is obviously just one of your standard replies. considering you have already sent a representative to court appearance case number xxxxx dates xxxx - your letter does not even make sense.

 

I commenced this case and registered my concerns originally in XXXX (date) and since then you have employed solicitors XXXXX to defend your case.

Also you refer to my account and advise me not to incurr any more charges??? Very difficult to do that as you closed my account without warning in June 2007???

 

Dont you think you could at least check your records before just sending me this nonsensical reply???!!

 

the fact remains that you have been informed on several occasions that I am a hardship case - you have not adhered to the recommend banking code practice in this respect - or to the terms of the waiver with the FSA.

 

I had no choice but to pursue my case through the court system and since then through the FOS. The court case caused me considerable anxiety and worsened my health.

 

Reference the FSA and FOS not being involved until the court case is settled you are well aware this does not apply to hardship cases in which you are obliged to at least consider the cicumstances - outside the court system.

 

I will send this copy letter to the FOS and would expect a more personal and appropriate reply within 7 days.

 

(enclose details of income and expenditure if you want to and the new spread sheet - also a copy to the court for their records?)

[jansus]

Hi

 

S69 statutory interest at 8% is calculated on the spreadsheets you can use form this site. However it technically can only be awarded by the courts if you win your case. Having said that many cases settled outside court have managed to claim that interest.

 

As the judgement could take many months I think that as you are arguing on a hardship case you should still keep pushing the FOS to help you with your case. It should not have got to the court stage anyway. Keep pushing them to help you . Dont give up yet

 

jan

[jansus]

How about something like:

 

I refer to your letter dated XXX

 

This just about sums up your attitude to my problem. You have sent me a standard letter without considering my personal situation at all. What is the point of advising me how to operate my account - when you closed it without notice in June 2007? Can you not check your records before you reply? Again I refer you to the agreement with the FSA where it states that under the agreement you are obliged to look at hardship cases during the period of the court case. I have on many occasions given you full details of my circumstances and if you check your records you have everything you require. You have forced me to court and worsened my fragile situation and all this stress is making my health situation worse.

 

I repeat my total claim is for XXXX and I will be sending a copy of your letter and my reply to my contact at the FOS for their comments.

 

I suggest that you maybe consider a more personal approach to this problem.

 

 

 

Or words to that effect ( did you send them a sheet of income expenditure before? if so send them a copy and any copies of letters that summarised your situation.

 

jan