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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
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      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Commission??? That's one word for it!


Little Bob
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Good morning all,

 

After 5 months of continuous requests, I finally received my statements.

 

While flicking through them on the train this morning, I realised that there are quite a few amounts, either in £50 or £25 denominations which are entitled "Commission". :confused:

 

As I have a basic account with Smile, I then called them to find out what the Commission was for, as I do not have a motrgage, travel insurance or any other service with them.

 

It turns out, Commission is code for Fee which is applied when a Direct Debit or Cheque is bounced, through lack of funds. So just make sure you don't miss these off your statements as it's just another term for FEE. :mad:

 

I'm only owed about £500 or so, so I'm hoping that Smile will not make too bigger deal of it but I'll let you know.

 

Cheers

 

Caroline

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Hello - me again.

 

After reviewing the charges, I sent a secure message to Smile and said as it was only £475 in total, would they just pay this back directly or if they didn't, I'd have to go through the official channels (I sent the LBA anyway by registered post on Friday).

 

This is the message I've just received back from them:

 

Hello Mrs xxxx

Thanks for letting me know about your problem. I'm really sorry to hear you've had trouble with charges on your account.

 

This is just to say I'll be looking into your complaint and I'll get back to you as soon as I can with a full response. Please be aware this may take upto 4 weeks in line with the Financial Services Authority regulations, although we aim to respond much faster.

 

Thanks again

 

xxxxx xxxxx

 

PS - For full details of our complaints procedures, go to smile.co.uk - the internet bank, click on 'Talk to us' and then click on 'Complaints' on the right hand side.

 

4 WEEKS? Can I go back to them and say that's b*llocks and that it should be 14 days? Is the FSA regulation 14 days or 4 weeks? I should imagine that they will probably waste my time on the back of the LBA)

 

AAARRGGHH!! They are driving me mad!!! Please, someone, should I bother replying to the Secure message and tell them that they have 14 days or should I just await the response from the LBA application?

 

Your experienced response would be greatly appreciated!

 

Thanks

 

Little Bob.

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Hi,

 

I'm no expert but I've read a lot of the smile threads in depth! I'm also awaiting a response from my LBA and have been given the 4 weeks to wait nonsense.

 

From what I've read it seems smile do seem to be issuing refunds in the 4 week timescale they are giving. If they do not respond within your 14 day limit you do have the option of court action. This of course is a hassle but on the flip side, again from what I've read, you'll probably get the interest on your claim too by taking legal action.

 

Hope this helps! "AAARRGGHH!!" is how I've been feeling about smile lately too!

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Stick to your timescales, of the 14 day letters. Then do the court action. That's what I did and I was paid out one week afterwards, refunding the court costs and interest.

 

They were no real hassle at all, I wish I could say the same for Natwest!!

Good Luck

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Hello,

 

After writing a secure message to Smile about the timeframes, I have (5 days later) received a response:

 

Hello Mrs xxxx

 

I'm sorry you've not had a reply to your complaint as of yet. I appreciate that you may have given us 14 days to resolve your complaint.

 

However, we work to timescales set by the Financial Services Authority. We are allowed up to 4 weeks to reply to your initial complaint. However, law allows us a maximum of 8 weeks to respond to your complaint. If we need anymore time after the initial 4 weeks we will let you know either by secure message or written letter.

 

I'm sorry if you feel that 4 or 8 weeks is too long to wait. However, due to the number of complaints that we have received recently we have to work them in order.

 

I'm sorry if this means you have to wait. However, if we were to put your complaint before others it would not be fair and lead to customers waiting longer than necessary.

 

Regards

 

xxxx

smile Complaints Team

 

Help! What exactly is the law? Are they right with the FSA guidelines then? Do they actually have the right to wait 4-8 weeks before response? I like the way that's the goalpost has now moved from 4 to 8!

 

Please let me know the legal status of what they are saying as I don't know.

 

Many thanks

 

Little Bob

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From all that I have read the over-riding message is this STICK YOUR timescales. You're not making a "complaint". You are requesting the return of your money!

 

When the 14 days is up, send them the LBA. If they don't respond, then you can give them another 7 days if you're feeling generous. This will show the court (should it come to this) that you have given them time and opportunity to resolve the matter before bringing it to court.

 

When the 7 days are up either file N1 at your local county court or use MCOL and file online.

 

Don't let them get away with it. Four weeks indeed! Hmmmph :evil:

 

deedee :D

My threads

deedee1310 v Abbey, deedee1310 v Capital One, deedee1310 v Halifax Plc, CapQuest CCJ, deedee1310 v Littlewoods & deedee1310 v Smile

If I have been of help in even the smallest way, please click the star and "add to my reputation" :p

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Hi, I am waiting for Smile to send me details about charges but I reckon they owe me about £2000+. I sent a request for details of charges via Secure message though, would they responde to that? Does anyone know please?

  • Haha 1
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Hey Rainbow157,

 

This was my recent exchange with them with regards to receiving a list of charges (nothing more). Start from the bottom

 

Hello deedee1310

 

The Subject Access Request is something different and there is a charge for this, but the list of charges is also done by the same team so they use the same timescales.

 

The list of charges is free and although we have 40 days in which to send this to you, we aim to do it as soon as possible.

 

Please let me know if there is anything else I can do to help.

 

Regards

 

Pamela Eason

 

Message Sent to Bank

-----------------------------------------------

To : BANK

Date : 18/06/2007

Subject : Manager

 

Thank you.

 

I have already sent a letter with regards to a Subject Access Request enclosing the Statutory fee of £10.

 

A friend told me recently that if I JUST wanted a list of charges that this could be sent to me and could take up to 7 days. From your reply I see that this is not the case, so will await ALL the data held on me, as per my request dated 11/6/07.

 

Warm regards,

 

deedee1310

 

Message From Bank

-----------------------------------------------

Operator ID : JBURGA

Date : 18/06/2007

Subject : Manager

 

Hello deedee1310

 

I've passed your request on to our Subject Access Request team.

 

They now have 40 days to action your request.

 

Thanks

 

Jackie

 

Message Sent to Bank

-----------------------------------------------

To : BANK

Date : 12/06/2007

Subject : Manager

 

Could you please send me a printout of all charges debited to my account since its inception? I understand that this can take up to 7 days to receive.

 

I look forward to hearing from you shortly.

Note the presumption by Jackie that my original request was for an SAR :mad: . It wasn't but I had already sent an SAR request the day before 11/6/07.

Oh well I guess the cat is out of the bag for me. They're probably not under any illusions now as to why I want the list of charges. :lol:

My threads

deedee1310 v Abbey, deedee1310 v Capital One, deedee1310 v Halifax Plc, CapQuest CCJ, deedee1310 v Littlewoods & deedee1310 v Smile

If I have been of help in even the smallest way, please click the star and "add to my reputation" :p

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Hiya Rainbow157,

 

Be careful asking for a 'list of charges'. I started like this on secure messenging and 4 weeks later, they provided me with a list of Interest charges against my account!!! (it's a looooong story). But it took 4 weeks, after 3 months of asking.

 

You need to make sure you ask for a SAR, otherwise they play dumb and don't come back with anything you need, thus prelonging the time it takes to get what you want.

 

Secure messenging is fine as I've got the info I need but make sure when you ask for the money, you do it in writing by using the LBA, and send it by registered post.

 

Let me know how you get on!

 

Little Bob

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Don't worry my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) still stands :p I just wanted the list to get started.

 

I have most of my statements but am missing quite a few (have had the account for 5 years) hence my SAR in the first place. Plus Smile, had previously closed the same type of account that I currently hold with them, two years before. They cited my adverse credit as being the reason despite the account having been open for over 4 months, so I am curious to know what their real reason was.

 

Remember SAR is not just for statements but for ALL data held on you by a Data Controller.:D

 

deedee

My threads

deedee1310 v Abbey, deedee1310 v Capital One, deedee1310 v Halifax Plc, CapQuest CCJ, deedee1310 v Littlewoods & deedee1310 v Smile

If I have been of help in even the smallest way, please click the star and "add to my reputation" :p

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Hi, I am waiting for Smile to send me details about charges but I reckon they owe me about £2000+. I sent a request for details of charges via Secure message though, would they responde to that? Does anyone know please?

 

 

Hey I just received this response after sending S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) yesterday.

 

I've passed your request on to our Customer Care department. They now have forty days to provide you with this information. This is in line with the Financial Services Authority.

 

Regards

 

Pamela Eason

smile Complaints Team

 

Should I leave it at that now and hope they send the info?

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Hello

 

You can get the Daily Excess charges, plus the service charge. I think you can only get the interest if you go through the courts. Be careful to check for things called Commission. This is a penalty for bounced cheques and/or DDs! Cheeky beggers.

 

And on the back of your SAR, they do have 40 days to respond, so sit tight and see what happens!

 

Let me know how you get on.

 

Little Bob.

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HI

I sent my subject access request on May 19th. On June 16th i received this information. I sent a secure message requesting my £876 on the 16th or else court action would be taken. I then sent a secure message again on Monday 18th. On Tuesday 17th i contacted them by phone to see what was happening. I was informed that i would receive my money in 2 working days. Today i got a letter confirming this.

 

I cant believe how quick and easy this process was. Here's hoping my money will be returned to me tomorrow.!!!

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How does that work ebd89?! Some of you get it straight away and others (ME for instance) have to wait ages?!! A bit inconsistant and very irritating!!!

 

Never mind. Glad you'll get your money, I'll let you know if I ever get there!!

 

Got to love 'em!

 

Little Bob

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Well guys, woke up this morning and checked my account. And WOW there was my £876 reimbursed. I can't believe it!!!

So i packed up the car and me and my three little darlings headed to town for some indulgence. To top it all i'm on maternity leave at the minute and this money has been a godsend.

 

Good luck to you all in your cliams!!!

 

P.S Also made a cliam to the Bank of Ireland for £471 four weeks ago and would you believe it they sent be a letter today offering me £250. I think i'm going to accept as i believe they take all their cases to court. WHAT A DAY ITS BEEN....

 

ebd 89

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CONGRATULATIONS ebd89!!!:D :D :D :D

 

I don't blame you for indulging in some indulgence! Good luck with the baby. Remember to put some aside for the new addition to your family :D

 

Wow - I hope they take my claim seriously too (once I start it)!

 

Anyway, congratulations once again.

 

deedee x

My threads

deedee1310 v Abbey, deedee1310 v Capital One, deedee1310 v Halifax Plc, CapQuest CCJ, deedee1310 v Littlewoods & deedee1310 v Smile

If I have been of help in even the smallest way, please click the star and "add to my reputation" :p

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Hi LittleBob.

 

It's been a bit quiet here recently. What's happening with your claim. I was trying to work out your timeline and reckon that you should have sent an LBA at some point, which is counting down.

 

Is this the case?

 

Let us all know please. I'm still waiting for Smile (I'm NOT) to send all my banking info as per my SAR request. I'll let you guys know when it arrives.

 

Speak to you soon.

 

deedee

My threads

deedee1310 v Abbey, deedee1310 v Capital One, deedee1310 v Halifax Plc, CapQuest CCJ, deedee1310 v Littlewoods & deedee1310 v Smile

If I have been of help in even the smallest way, please click the star and "add to my reputation" :p

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