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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
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    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Lloyds victory in Birmingham - in perspective


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Lloyds victory in Birmingham

 

It is important to get this in perspective.

 

This judgment was produced by a District Judge in a County Court. This means that the judgment is not binding on any other court or on any other judge in the country. Of course there might be some judges who may be influenced by it and no doubt Lloyds will be encouraged.

 

May people and the press are saying that it is the first time that a case has actually gone before a judge and this first time, a judge has immediately came down in favour of the bank. This is not true. This is not the first case. Many cases have come before the courts in similar circumstances.

 

The bank - as on many occasions before - failed to submit its bundle. It appeared to lose interest. They didn't make the expected offer of settlement. On the day of the hearing, they didn't turn up.

 

This has happened many times before with many banks and credit card companies. In every case previously the judge dismissed the defence and found in favour of the claimant.

 

This case was different because the judge actually conducted a line of questioning. He secured admissions from Kevin on several points and eventually produced a judgment which was in favour of the bank.

 

There is no reason why other judges should follow this and conduct similar cases in a similar way.

 

 

In his judgment the judge admits that really he has been provided with insufficient evidence by either of the parties. He agrees that he does not even have a copy of the current account contract.

 

He then goes on to say that, taking a relaxed view of the rules of evidence he decided to find out what the banks T&Cs were for himself. He did this by surfing the Internet. The Judge states that he was unable to discover any further information on the bank's website and was therefore obliged to make a decision based the scant information available to him and on the basis of certain assumptions and inferences which he made during his reasoning.

 

 

Very significantly the judge did not particularly seek to look behind the contract at what really happened in the real world of personal banking. The judge felt that this was not necessary as he felt that the contract worked perfectly well as stated. This means that when he made his decision, it was based purely on the written contractual terms as Lloyds bank claim them to be.

 

 

A particular problem with this in my view is that by accepting without question the bank's interpretation of the current account contract the judge opens the door to any organisation to get round the law of penalty charges merely be producing a document which describes them as a "service".

 

The judge did not discuss the fact that for over one hundred years many senior judges have recognised that parties do try do circumvent penalty charge law by cloaking their penalties as services. Even the OFT in their April 2006 report specifically warned banks against the practice of disguising penalties as services.

Despite this, many of the banks have done exactly this and this Birmingham Judge appears to condone the practice.

 

A particular weakness of the judgment is that it ignores the intended effect of consumer legislation such as UTCCR 1999. Consumer legislation generally is intended to imply terms into contracts in order to redress the balance between greatly unequal bargain partners - the banks one hand, and the consumer on the other. The judge appears to have applied very strict business principles. He appears not at all to considered the inequality of the bargaining parties which is such an important aspect of modern Contract Law.

 

If this judge's ruling is allowed to stand or is followed by other County Court judges then it will render UTCCR and other consumer legislation completely useless because any powerful organisation will be able to avoid it simply by having the right wording in their T&Cs.

 

If for only this reason I do not think that the judgment in Berwick v lloyds will have any lasting effect.

 

What should you do right now?

 

I think that the clear lesson here is that claimants should start taking their claims rather more seriously then they have so far.

 

Claims need proper preparation and ordinary litigants in person need to let other know that their claims are going to court.

 

This victory by Lloyds is discouraging but there is no reason yet to suggest that people should not stop claiming their money back.

 

Just start taking it seriously and prepare in good time.

 

We've said it often before - now here's the proof.

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deadthings - could we have a scan of your account contract please.

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