CCA Agreements (Mark II) PLUS any other topic

[joneshousehold]

I have only just found this thread. I have no idea what was going on that prompted this thread to start (although I admit to being more than a little intrigued) however I have come along to join in if that's OK

[joneshousehold]

join in......

 

you missed all the fun stuff, which seems to be over

 

any ideas on my little problem ??

 

(please)

 

Dave

 

Thanks Dave -it's the story of my life - I always get to the party after the fun has finished!

 

So on a serious matter, have you looked through the OFT guidelines to see if your agreement has any flaws. I have done that on all of mine and they all have some so then you can deal with the paperwork according to how many and how serious those flaws are.

[joneshousehold]

Dave, I have been back and had another look at your agreement. I don't know too much about the numbers but there does seem to be a lot of them. There may be a flaw or two there. Have you considered the Wilson case and where these figures should be and how they should be described. Some of the venerable members of the CCAA committee may know more about this as they seem to have researched it more than I have.

 

The OFT guidleines you need are these

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft018.pdf

 

Other thoughts I have had based on those guidelines are

- does the wording include a comment about a rebate if the loan is paid off early? I can't actually read the wording on the posting so I'm not too sure

- if your copy is not legible I would always argue that I cannot see if the original was any more legible (and they also could not show the court it was) so unless they can show me otherwise I can only conclude it was NOT and so the agreement is unenforceable (S61) also every copy must be legible too.

- your agreement has cancellation rights and they must have complied with the very strict rules on this. I would be inclined to say that I don't remember getting copies and a cancellation rights notice after execution so they need to prove they did. They will need to prove it to the court if they want to enforce the agreement so it is perfectly reasonable for you to ask to see the evidence now.

- equally copies need to be sent at specific times after the agreement becomes executed and it is just as reasonable to ask for evidence that such copies were sent and when.

- look at the t&c's they sent you. Are they the ones relevant at the time or a more up to date version as is often sent following a S77-79 request. There may be a printer's reference on the document which should include a print date or look at the default charges, if they are £12 you know that it is a very recent one.

You need to be imaginative really, twist those words to make them say what you want. That's what these creditors do so why shouldn't you. That way you may force them to reveal as much of their evidence as you can and that may give you something to work on. If they refuse just tell them you can only assume they do not have the evidence and if they do and the case goes to court the judge will be VERY unhappy to hear they have obstructed you in your reasonable and legitimate requests.

You are welcome to get in touch if you want any more help. If you want to keep it private send me a pm

Good luck. Don't throw the towel in just yet. Make them work really hard for this. After all they have yet to earn all the charges they put on your original loan at the start!!!!

[joneshousehold]

Ian, I think it was because of S85 (yes I know that's the one they all ignore) because that requires them to send a copy of the agreement with the new card and if they send the agreement with the signature then it would be easy enough to be used fraudulently if intercepted through the post.

 

I have generally moved these sorts of situations on with a comment that whilst they may have fulfilled S77-79 on this point it has highlighted to me that they may be trying to use an unexecuted agreement which is unenforceable. I ask for a copy with the signatures and failing that I shall consider the agreement unenforceable. If it goes to court they would have to produce the signed version and so I stick to the line that this is in dispute and they cannot do anything until court orders the agreement is enforceable. The court would be very unhappy if the creditor refused to give such a copy to me but turned up with it at court so they might just as well send me a copy now. Stress it's not a S77-79 request now but a legitmate question on the validity of the documentation they hold

Mind you so far I have only been told they are not prepared to talk to me anymore and I consider that's a case of the toys are now out of the pram!

[joneshousehold]

I have reported Cap One to Trading Standards (amongst others) and have had a couple of interesting telephone calls with them. They are pursuing the criminal offence (her words) although whether it can be pursued will depend on what evidence Cap One can come up with.

 

I have also been told by them that the agreement must be accompanied by the orginal T&C's which I haven't had yet. The last lady who called me was most disgusted with the contents of the letters from Cap One.

 

She also asked me if I was interested in pursuing the criminal offence further if there is no evidence of compliance. I did go through the motions of considering what she asked for a whole second before I said I would!

 

It's early stages yet but I can hope and dream, can't I?

[joneshousehold]

Thanks Corn, I'm not sure how it happened either!

Oh yes, it is after all Thursday and the very large glass of wine is now consumed. I am not as coherent as I was and I don't care.

Don't be wounded Corn, you are a helper to me and I couldn't have got where I am now without you.

I was worried you would all hate me for turning to the dark side. Can I still come to the party?

Seriously, thanks for the kind words. You're a gem!

Cheers

[joneshousehold]

Doesn't vodka & coke count as alcohol then?

[joneshousehold]

Thanks for the click Els. Glad you like the pink tutu, I had it made specially!

[joneshousehold]

Although a debt is not written off by the CCA requirements, a company is obliged to make certain adjustments in their accounts for the requirement of Accounting Standards to show the debt is irrrecoverable. I suspect once they do that they will take it off their system and stop notifying the CRAs. I am not certain on this but I think it may be worth thinking about