A+L Card Debt sold to LINK

[The Phantom]

It is interesting, because when I talked to the TS here in sunny Devon they asked where I got my advice from as it was all so far down the line already and I had done so much already. She said they usually just tell people to do what I had already done and then the problem resolves itself as the creditors normally comply. She said "we have never been down this route so far" and she had to talk to her supervisor and call me back. (Rural Devon, eh ?)

She did a while later and said they would have to pass this to the relevant TS for MBNA (I suppose Chester ?). But the person there handling MBNA complaints was on holiday until 12.04. so she would call her then and I would hear back from TS sometime after that date.

So maybe it is TS Chester who is refusing to act ? I will have to wait until they contact me again to find out, but if they refuse to act then of course I will join any complaint !!

I will update again at the time

[ladybird17]

I don't think it's just Chester...all TS seem very reluctant to take these complaints further.

[The Phantom]

In that case I can't actually say that this was the case today

The lady was quite interested and promised to follow it up with the other TS in (Chester ?) when that person is back from holiday and promised me a follow-up. She did acknowledge that the actions were indeed in breach of the CCA and that the creditor had now made the agreement unenforceable.

But I think I am now at the mercy of MBNA's local TS and have to wait a little longer to hear back

[ladybird17]

well please keep us posted, let's hope not everyone in Chester is the same!!

[The Phantom]

Will do, should hoepfully be next week

[The Phantom]

Had a phone call from my local TS, they had a reply from Chester TS

Chester TS wants to know why I wanted to see a copy of the agreement in the first place anyway, so I said that's because the whole debt is in dispute

So apparently all TS Chester would consider doing in this case is phone MBNA on my behalf and ask them why they didn't send the agreement to me, but to do that they would need my authority , otherwise MBNA wouldn't have to discuss the issue with TS (?)

How pathetic is that. For me the matter is closed really, I have informed MBNA that I have stopped payments as they are in breach of the CCA 77/78 and have informed Trading Standards of this breach of the Act

I don't really care now why they didn't send the agreement and I think TS should follow this up as a general breach of the law and not just why they didn't boher to send me the agreement. (TS:"Oh, may I just ask why you didn't send Ms Owe-a-Lot a copy of the agreement ?" MBNA:"That's simply because we are MBNA, above the law and don't really care about you, the law or anybody else really either" TS: "Oh, that explains it then, many thanks, we will pass this on and close the case")

[Cornucopia]

Hi Nicole, you do sound cross and have every right to be. My advice would have been to have contacted the TS in your area. We know that Chester TS are in regular contact with MBNA and I don't trust that association, frankly. I suggest you find somebody as high as you can and send a written report.

 

Don't assume that MBNA won't come up with something, they may well do, but all may be not as it seems. Please do post or PM me when/if you receive anything.

 

You have done the right thing in informing MBNA what you have done and your reasons why. Just leave it now, the ball is in their Court.

 

Keep up the good fight, you are doing fine!!

 

Regards,

 

Corn x:)

[The Phantom]

Yes, I will indeed let it be for now

I have done everything to the book and legally MBNA has turned the debt into an unenforceable one for the time being. I shall await in eager anticipation what they dig out of the early 1990s archives as and when they get around to it and if it is just an old application form , so much the better

I will report back with any new developments as and when they happen

It is quite ironic really that my local TS office seemed and still seems more eager than MBNA's local office, but as you said they are obviously in repeated contact with MBNA and got to know them quite well and my local TS said it is something that needs to be investigated by MBNA's Trading Standards office really.

[Cornucopia]

Am pm'ing x

[The Phantom]

Have had a letter from MBNA today to say they have sold the debt to Link Financial !!!

[lordi234]

so im not on my own with hassle from MBNA ive been trying to stop intrest paying £27 int a monthe late payment charges how can i pay late when ive a DMP with cccs , ive sent a DPA LAST THURS, im paying £20 each month the balance isnt going down cccs advice me not to stop paying them even though im not gaining, so will MBNA sent me my last 6 year statments ??

[The Phantom]

Have you done your SAR yet ?

They finally sent me a brief list with charges once the Information Commissioner got involved

Their excuse for non compliance with my SAR to the Commissioner was I sent my SAR addressed to Alliance & Leicester Credit Card, but MBNA has bought them out, so it should have been addressed to MBNA (same address mind you) therefore they ignored my request and considered I never made one.

The information commissioner then told them by not informing me about the incorrect name / title they were n breach of a different section of the Data Protection Act

If they do not reply to your SAr get the Information Commissioner involved

The commissioner does monthly bulk complaints to MBNA as he gets so many these days for MBNA

With your list of charges you should then be able to work out how much exactly they owe you and then take the steps described here on the site

[lordi234]

no i sent a DPA i

Abbey credit card,po box 1004

MBNA Europe bank ltd

chester business park

Chester CH4 9ww

 

Data Protection Act disclosure request

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER:

Please supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my account since, 07/04/01. Alternatively a complete set of statements for that period will be acceptable. Furthermore please provide me with a copy of my/our contract with you, and a copy of my original terms and conditions. I make this request Under the Data Protection Act 1984 and 1998, and including the right of subject access under these acts.

Additionally where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my business with you.

If you are unable to supply data relating to manual intervention because there has been no such manual intervention then please be kind as to confirm this in your response to this request.

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10.00 to access ALL data held by (Abbey mbna) about myself. You should be fully aware of your statutory obligations under the data protection act and that any failure to comply to this request could result in an investigation from the Information Commissioners Office. You have 40 days in which to comply.

Furthermore, if I discover that you have levied disproportionate penalties against me then I shall be reclaiming them.

I am sure you are now aware that due to the sheer amount of these letters you receive plus the massive media attention, that every time you receive one of these letters it will be followed up by a request for a full refund of any disproportionate penalty charges, this will give you 14 days to do so before court action. Please note if I have to take court action to reclaim these charges then I will do so. Therefore, to save yourselves some time and money, if you could just refund all these charges dating back for the maximum 6 years immediately you will not incur the court fees, statutory interest pursuant to s69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum for which I would be entitled, nor costs for having to retain your own solicitors.

Such submissions from yourselves, that the relevant data is now only held on Microfiche in date order and can only be provided at extra cost etc is unacceptable as it implies that such data is nonetheless retrievable. In these circumstances, as opposed to copies of statements for the micro-fiched period, I will accept a detailed breakdown of all charges levied to my account in date order.

Yours faithfully

 

 

 

it looks like sar and cca is in the DPA MBNA are a obstacle ive just got some charges from nat west..

[The Phantom]

That looks perfectly fine as you included MBNA in your header, so they can't sneak out that door like in my case

How long have you been waiting ? If the 40 days are up then go straight to the IC

[lordi234]

i only sent it 0n 1 st April, i havent sent a cca just the above.

[The Phantom]

In my case they just ignored it totally, but excused it with the fact I addressed it incorrectly

So you may (or may not) get something from them, but if you do not, inform the IC, you can download the complaint form from his website

[lordi234]

after 40 days and i dont get a reply i photo copy DPA i sent to MBNA, im also on a debt managment plan with cccs do i explain this to ico ?

[The Phantom]

No, I don't think the Information Commissioner needs to know why you want to do a DPA / SAr or what your background is, they will simply investigate the breach of the DPA if MBNA does not comply and remind them of their obligation. The information has to be supplied to you by law, your background is unimportant

[The Phantom]

Hi

 

have got a massive problem with MBNA, they have just sold a disputed and unenforceable debt (they didn't provide the original true signed agreement within the 12&30 days plus have not so far refunded unlawful charges levied) to LINK Financial

I haven't heard from Link yet, does anybody know this company and what to expect

Will also talk to Trading Standards on Monday ref their ongoing investigation, as I reported MBNA for CCA non compliance a while ago and now they topped it by selling the debt...

[spiritgirl59]

Hi Nicole

 

I have had dealings with this company myself. Their behaviour is heavy handed and downright nasty. Whatever you do, don't deal with them on the phone whatsoever. I learned the hard way about this after dealing with an extremely rude and abusive member of their staff on the phone who basically was making empty threats to me about sending bailiffs round, taking me to court etc, but they were upsetting all the same.

 

Insist they only deal with you in writing and put the phone down on them if they call you, as they may well do. They are very very persistent Nicole so you need to be strong. Have a look on the forums for other threads about Link and you'll get the general idea

 

Meantime I'm sure someone will advise you in full how to deal with them re correspondence., I just wanted to warn you about their phone calls so you are not caught unawares in the meantime. They tend to phone at VERY unsociable hours to catch you out, and they will use the personal first name approach as in "Hi there is that Nicole?" so please don't get caught out and end up in a discussion with them like I did, its simply not worth it.

 

Good luck

Spiritgirl

[The Phantom]

Hi and many thanks for your reply

I doubt they will have my phone number, I believe they get their information from the original creditor and MBNA did not have my number since I changed it a while ago

So pretty sure they won't be able to phone, but I am not english so will use my mother tongue to communicate in case they do get the number somehow.

Let's see how good their language skills are and whether they are better than mine

I try to find out as much as possible about the enemy before direct contact / enagagement takes place and every little bit of info will help me to see what they are like and how to stand up to them

[gerih]

Link refused to put things in writing - said they didn`t have to. Then they refused to give details of the alleged debt & signed agreement. Eventually, I threatened to take them to court for harassment and have heard nothing since.

Good luck.

[The Phantom]

Well, bring it on LINK

I am pretty sure they won't have a phone number so they will be forced to write , let's see what they come up with

I have heard or read in other threads that they are pretty quick off the amrkt, so will probably get the first letter next week

[The Phantom]

Just did a bit of a site search ref LINK and came about a very informative thread were it actually stated that DCA do not have to comply with a CCA request as the original agreement was terminated by the original lender

I know this is what LINK usually writes in their reply letter to CCA requests, but is this true or not

Here the relevant thread I am referring to

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/43409-link-financial-cca-request.html?highlight=Link

Any input ?

[Vampyra]

Hi Nicole

My mother had an Barclays debt that was passed to Link. Nasty people. She has had several mini strokes and got confused and one day asked me to speak to them as she wasn't sure what they were going on about. Since then she now is bed and wheelchair bound and suffers serious dementia. They ring me frequently asking to speak to me. I say I'm not here and put the phone down. They ring and ring and ring over and over - well they did til I reported them to the police who contacted them on our behalf. They are awful on the phone - they are abusive and utterly vile individuals.

 

With regard the DCA request:

I am not legally trained. Reading the thread you mention I can appreciate the point of fact of a terminated agreement being a debt, whoever owns it, but as has been written on here on other threads; there are some DCA's who purchased resolved and fully paid debts, statute barred debts and non-existant debts.

 

I think one could reasonably argue that under these circumstances, if a DCA cannot prove you are the debtor, how can they legally enforce a debt? If I bought a load of application forms, or indeed I found some in the bins outside of the bank, and determined that maybe a third would be in debt, I could attempt, with the info on the application forms, to extract money from people.

 

I got a "Deed of Assignment" from Halifax, (HBOS), which looked very unofficial, stating the debt had been sold to 1st Credit Limited. Say it hadn't been? Should you pay them?

 

I think it may be considered a reasonable arguement in a Court that you had an agreement with MBNA and because you failed repayments for whatever reason, they terminated your account as per the terms and conditions of your account. You were told or not that a debt was sold on and you receive correspondance from a company who you did not owe money to, claiming ownership of your debt. You ask them to prove that, they cannot.

 

Also, please note, a terminated agreement does not negate the original agreement - if it did there would be no DCA's as there would be no debts to collect.

 

If this CCA template letter is not there for a purpose, why is it on this site? For what reason would anyone need an original copy of their credit agreement? Apart from when there wasn't one. How come people are quoting 12 working days + 2 days = DCA default upon the request + another 30 days = a criminal act of not complying with the terms of the Act? Why would a DCA commit a criminal act if it were not to provide the material requested?

 

If they believe it to be that they do not have to provide these documents - then they cannot take and keep your pound. You have given them permission to have a pound in return for a true copy of the credit agreement you signed, nothing else.

 

As I said in the beginning, I am not a legally trained person, but sometimes I think one has to look at these things laterally. What Zootscoot was saying I believe is that they can prove they own the debt in other ways. But I guess there are several schools of thought; if they choose not to find a way to prove they own the debt, then they could be deemed as negligent and deliberately misleading. Sending application forms is answering nothing.

 

I guess one could reasonably argue that if a DCA bought a debt from a creditor, they would have to disclose the date and amount paid to prove a purchased was transacted.

 

I am working on supposition here and not a defacto arguement, but even in a Court both sides generally have to show they have made reasonable attempts to resolve and rectify a situation before getting to a Court stage. I'm sure most Judges would probably feel it unreasonable not to provide you with what you requested, even if it is true that they do not have to.

 

Please note my use of the terms "reasonable" and "unreasonable" - two bits of legal jargon I do know and know have very strong implications at Court level.