Hutchinson default

[AlNewton]

A very quick one, I have an issue where I canceled my contract phone with H3g, and they have defaulted me for thre years. I have spoken to trading standards and they agree, I was within my right. I have sent about ten letters to Hutchinson trying to get them to tr and sort this out but they have ignored me each time, and they ignored trading standards. They have never sent me any default notices, or even invoices for the money they claim I owe.

What I want to know is how do I take them to court, force them to enter a dispute, or even get them to respond to me.

I have been trying for years now so I think the best thing would be court action, so if anyone could tell me where to go / what forms to fill in that would be great

Al

[buzby]

Did you cancel your contract within the terms you agreed? (e.g. AFTER the minimum term?). The default is simply with a credit reference agency, it has no legal standing.

 

What did TS 'agree'?

 

They don't send 'default' notices, as the agreement wasn't regulated under the CCA, but many TS offices don't know this. The default will expire anyway after 6 years, as the CRAs clear the file automatically.

[AlNewton]

I cancelled the contract because the phone was dicsonected for 6 weeks through no fault of my own. TS agreed they were in breach of contract and that I was in my rights to terminate it.

I know the default with the CRA has no legal standing, but it means I can not get any credit, mortgage etc...

The thing that annoys me most is that Hutchinson just ignore me.

Is there a way I can take them to court to force them to remove the default..

[buzby]

Before you go anywhere near a court, why was the phone disconnected for 6 weeks? If it was payment related, then they are not in breach of contract.

 

Your rights to terminate are very limited (otherwise we'd all be doing it!) but if you were trying to repudiate the contract due to non-performance on their part this has to be properly served on them, and you would also have a copy of the letter and notice that it was signed for.

 

Assuming you can substantiate your claim to a satisfactory level of proof to the court, then go for it.

[AlNewton]

Morning,

The reasons is because I broke my phone. I called them up, admitting it was my own fault, and purchased a new sim card and phone, (out of my own pocket). Once recieved, it took them 6 weeks to connect it. TS stated in the supply of service and goods act 1982, that it is their responsibility to supply the service that I am paying for “with reasonable care, skill and performance, within a reasonable time..”

What do you mean..".and you would also have a copy of the letter and notice that it was signed for"?

And what is the best way to go through the courts?

Thanks

[buzby]

Sorry, you haven't a chance here, and TS are talking nonsense (unfortunately, as usual). 'Reasonable Care' is a two-way street. Correct me if I err on the facts you stated; You broke your phone, and arranged a replacement at your own expense. Why did you purchase (?) an additional SIM? Unless the SIM too was broken (but you wouldn't know this until you put it in the replacement handset).

 

Your contract is tied to the SIM, and H3G would in all normal circumstances provide a free replacement SIM, activated with your existing number. You can purchase a H3G handset anywhere - even eBay, buy your SIM is the ONLY thing that ties you to your contract. By your own admission your broke the original handset, but the network is not liable to you for this unless you had taken out insurance. The SIM card, assuming it was still serviceable it what your contract was based on, and if this would have worked in an alternative handset, no complaint can be made to the network for lack of service.

[AlNewton]

I hear what you are saying. The phone and SIM were completely destroyed. Hence I purchased a new sim as well. This was not free, only £5 though. And by no means was I trying to claim for a handset. It was my fault, and there has never been any doubt about this. The issue was, when the new sim card arrived they were unable to connect it due to "technical difficulties" for six weeks, whilst still charging me for the contract. So they were charging for a servise they were not supplying.

To be honest, I would not mind paying the £170 they have defaulted me on, I have spent more than this with my time. I just want the default removed.

When I cancelled the contract, I asked them for an invoice for the money outstanding, up to the point of cancellation. I have not recieved anything from them. No invoices, no request to pay them, No phone bills. It was not for almost a year when I checked my credit file that I noticed anything wrong. And every attempt to contact them is ignored. Can they do this? Default me on money they are not invoicing me? And just point blank refuse to try and resolve it?

[buzby]

Thanks for the update - the technical difficulties they allude to may have been related to a switch in the SIM types they were using, and the technical side of H3G has not communicated this to the billing side, which has just rumbled on regardless.

 

Of course, the REAL problem is the lack of communication, but their inability to provide a working SIM does make this an issue of non-performance on their part. If pursuing this, don't complicate this by following the waiting for a working phone, as these are not grounds for compliant, but the lack of provisioning a SIM on your contract IS.

 

Their Glasgow offices (in St Vincent Street) are a good place to contact as it avoids the 1st level Indian Call Centre, let me know if you need the address. Send it by RD and keep the receipt. You require a refund in full of the service not provided to be credited to your account (this may mean the contract is extended for those months/weeks) and the clearance of any adverse billing data. If your service is currently working, make sure you keep paying them to prevent disruption, but if it is off, then ensure the payments are restarted after the credits are made. I'd also hold out for a small level of compensation, say £25 to £50 to cover your inconvenience.

[AlNewton]

Hey, thanks.

This was all over 3 years ago. I wrote to them to terminate the contract and asked them how much I owed them up to that point and never heard anything back, Approx 9 moths later I find the default. The contract and phone are long gone and I am trying to get them to talk. I have sent 5 RD letters to the Glasgow offices in the last two years and not heard a single thing.

I really need to force them to sort this out, hence the question of court action.

Unless you can think of any other ideas?

Really appreciate your help here by the way!

[buzby]

It's kinda easy for me, as I live just 3 miles from their front door - but you have to work out whether the trailas ahead are worth not just waiting the 36 months to time out! However on a point of principle, I'd be prepared to send them one final letter, which will enclose copies of the earlier (unreplied to) letters.

 

This letter, addressed to the 'Executive Office' at the Glasgow address, giving a quick precis of the situation (don't cover anything already mentioned in other letters - jest see Letter 1, 2 etc).

 

Explain that you are not prepared to continue with the default placed on your credit file especially as its placement does not take into account the disruption caused by their inability to provide service, prior to the current dispute.

 

Give them 28 days to resolve the issue to your satisfaction, and state that if you do not receive a satisfactory reply, you will raise an action in the Small Claims Court to seek redress, which will include [insert what you want & be reasonable] along with the complete removal of all adverse data placed of your credit file by them. Similarly, if you ARE obligated to them in any way, ask them for a full explanation.

 

After that, the ball is in your court to give them a hard time! Next time, don't leave it so long!

[AlNewton]

Hey,

sorry, only just picked up that last note. Thanks very much. I'll give that a go.

 

Cheers

[AlNewton]

Guys, court them talking through soliceters, read this and please... any thoughts....

 

 

 

Without Prejudice Save as to Costs

 

Dear Mr Newton,

 

Thank you for your email of 7 September 2007.

 

I appreciate that you believe H3G have breached their contract for services with you, and we are willing to discuss the credit defaults and compensation for the breach of contract with you.

 

However you are now bringing new claims for compensation which are not part of your pleaded claim. You claim form claims for 10 days of your time at £200 per day.

 

Even if the loss of a yacht delivery contract was part of your claim as pleaded, the claim would be denied on the grounds that it is not foreseeable and is too remote for a telephone services provider to be held responsible. It is a matter of common law that damages are only recoverable for loss or damage which arise naturally from the breach in the ordinary course of things, or were in the contemplation of the parties at the time they entered into the contract. H3G cannot be responsible for the fact that you only had one means of being contacted, additionally you have not in any way attempted to mitigate the problem.

 

In any event the loss of yacht delivery is not part of your claim, and as such will not form part of any offer we make to you in an attempt to settle.

 

I understand that you seek £160 in respect of letters you have written. Please could you clarify how much you are seeking for the time section of your claim as listed below, and how much you are seeking for stress.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

 

Adrian Bratt

 

 

 

 

 

From: Alex Newton [mailto:]

Sent: 07 September 2007 00:12

To: Adrian Bratt

Subject: Re: Yourself v Hutchison 3G UK Limited (H3G) [1A.FID125168]

 

Dear Adrian,

 

Thank you for your e-mail.

 

After reading Hutchinsons defense I would like to note that I still believe, as advised by Trading Standards, that Hutchinson were in breach of contract as they were not suppling the service I was paying for during the 6 weeks they were trying to connect the sim card.

 

 

I require Hutchinson completely remove any data from my credit file. Merely marking the default as settled is inadequate as this still substantially lowers credit rating.

 

My losses incurred are a direct result of Hutchinsons poor handling and customer relations during the period where service was not supplied and the subsequent time spent in telephone communications, letters and emails. I lost business contracts as a direct result of my inability to communicate with potential clients, the listed defaults caused my bank to decline a business loan. I have no other adverse credit records.

 

Myself and Trading Standards were also subjected to being ignored in our attempts to communicate and effect a satisfactory explanation as to the actions of Hutchinsons.

Hutchinsons listed defaults on my credit file without invoicing me for the money they claimed I owed, and continue to do so without issuing a copy of the default notice (a copy of which I had requested and paid for but never received). I believe this practice to be illegal. The time and financial losses may therefor appear to be challenging to quantify. However, I strongly believe that Hutchinson 3G UK Ltd. should be held accountable for compensation. I am prepared to pursue this through court action if necessary.

 

The following breakdown should clarify the losses claimed:

 

Loss of yacht delivery contract: £800. My mobile was my only point of contact.

Letters: 8 at £20 per letter (my hourly working rate is charged at £20), total £160. These charges include recorded delivery costs, necessary as Hutchinson continued to decline a response.

 

Time:

Telephone calls, repeated due to being ignored or passed from department to department within the Hutchinsons organisation. Often to be disconnected mid-sentence.

Lost work time due to visits to the Citizens Advice Bureau.

Researching via the internet for support organisations to assist with this untenable situation. The Consumer Action Group is one such organisation who provided support.

 

Stress:

From being ignored when trying to resolve the issue. Period of time 3 years. Only after the issuing of court papers has communication, via yourselves, commenced.

One month spent on a business plan that my bank manager turned down due to poor credit score as advised above.

It was my intention to secure a mortgage in 2005, again, my adverse credit score has influenced lenders decisions and interest rates offered.

 

With respect to my responsibility to mitigate my loses, it would have been unwise to undertake another contract phone, or even a pay as you go, as Hutchinson had repeatedly promised that the sim card would be connected. Also, It should be noted that after 6 weeks I did limit my loses by terminating the contract with Hutchinson's and starting with a new service provider.

 

Hutchinson have listed an inaccurate default on my credit file. I do not think that £2150 (including court costs) is grossly disproportional to my claim considering the amount of work, stress and how this has affected my life for the last three years.

 

I anticipate your response within the next 10 days to facilitate a satisfactory solution.

 

 

 

Kind Regards

Alex Newton

 

 

On 5 Sep 2007, at 12:05, Adrian Bratt wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Without Prejudice Save as to Costs

 

Dear Mr Newton,

 

Further to our telephone call last week, I would like to investigate with you the possibilities of settling your claim without the need for a court hearing. If we can do this before 20 September this will also save your costs regarding the allocation questionnaire.

 

Having looked through your claim, whilst I would be willing to recommend to H3G that your credit file be amended in respect of a settlement agreement I am having considerable difficulty with the amounts you are claiming. For a breach of contract claim - the sums claimed should be in respect of any losses you have actually suffered, anything more will amount to pure betterment. Any losses claimed for must also be reasonably foreseeable - that is the court would expect that the losses claimed by the claimant are such that a reasonable independent adjudicator would say that the losses could reasonably be caused by the breach of contract alleged, and are not too remote as to be speculative. There is much case law on these points and it is for the claimant to overcome this hurdle and prove they have lost what they say they have lost and that the loss is because of the breach of contract, and further that the loss is reasonably foreseeable.

 

I would be grateful if you could outline to me how you have lost 10 days of time at £200 per day as a result of an alleged breach of contract regarding your mobile phone, if you could provide proof of that loss I will then be in a position to discuss settlement terms with H3G. It is also settled law that there is a duty on the part of the claimant to mitigate their loss, and the claimant cannot allow losses to accrue without any attempt to reduce them by appropriate means (e.g. use of an alternative phone)

 

Essentially, it is my belief that as it currently stands your claimed loss is grossly disproportionate in relation to the breach of contract you have alleged.

 

Additionally, I would be grateful if you assist me regarding your letter of 24 January 2005. The letter H3G have forwarded on to me lists at the end a claim for £3233.50, however the letter submitted with the court documents is different in this respect. Were there 2 different letters sent on the same date?

 

Thank you in anticipation and I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Adrian Bratt

Trainee Solicitor

For and on behalf of Bond Pearce LLP

DDI: +44(0) 845 415 7609

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Bond Pearce | UK Commercial Law Firm

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[buzby]

You're in danger of losing out big time if they believe that your claims are unreasonable. You would be painting yourself into a corner if asking your witnesses to prove actual loss. It might be pragmatic to take a one-off fee in the £300-500 mark and cap it at that. Incidentally, you really need to spell their name correctly, the company is Hutchison 3G.