Taking Cabot to court for failing to supply HSBC CCA + Distress etc

[InKogneeToh]

Hi

 

I have just re-read Mr Crawford's attack on those 'rogues' who dare to challenge a debt purchaser's right to collect on their spoils!!

 

On my first reading I was just stunned - now I am bl***y livid!! :mad:

 

This statement, in particular is making me see red!! -

 

It is just a shame that there appear to be so many debtors, and apparently advice agencies, keen to frustrate attempts by legitimate businesses to seek payment of bona fide, and usually undisputed debts.

 

 

Legitimate businesses??? Have you checked the word legitimate in the dictionary Mr C.? - alongside the most common interpretation of 'lawful', legitimate also means 'able to be defended, or reasonable'.

 

 

There is NOTHING defensible or reasonable about trading in misery Mr C.! How can the word 'legitimate' possibly be used to describe the practice of buying up a person's debt for peanuts and then subjecting him to a barrage of harassment and threats with the aim of making as much profit as possible?

 

 

As to 'bona fide' debts Mr C., what percentage of these debts are actually checked for accuracy before the systematic bullying begins I wonder? Probably 0.0000000001% would be a fairly accurate assumption.

 

 

Finally Mr C., how convenient and advantageous it must have been for 'outfits' such as yours that most debts have hitherto been undisputed. But you conveniently omit to mention that the main reason why debts have been largely undisputed is because most borrowers who are unfortunate enough to fall into your company's greedy, amoral and unscrupulous grasp are kept in blind ignorance of their rights whilst being terrorised into submission!

But not for much longer MR C., You're game is nearly up!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[InKogneeToh]

 

Glen Crawford Cabot Financial

 

He is a specialist in consumer credit and data protection law .

 

Really???

 

Oh dear, Oh dear, Oh dear!!!

 

Glen! You're a 'specialist' and you don't understand the meaning of the word 'creditor' in the CCA??

[InKogneeToh]

Cabot Financial receives many letters each month from customers who have experienced the Cabot Service.

 

To all staff at Cabot, the only debt recovery companyho never talks with you in a rude manner, push you to pay what you cannot afford, who is nice when they know you are not telling the truth and who never try to make your day horrible.

 

We wanted to write to you personally to say how impressed we have been by your employees, who have treated us with utmost respect and courtesy. We have not always had this treatment from other companies, and it was such a delight to speak to people who seemed to understand our situation and seemed to genuinely want to assist. It is our experience that people are always quick to complain, but are slower to praise, and we intended to put that right.

 

I wish to thank the member of your team who I spoke to. She has been most helpful and sympathetic by listening to how such a large debt was incurred.

She has also gone all through the different options of re-paying this loan, with an attitude that nothing is too much trouble for her to help.

 

Why don't you contact us and see how we can work together.

 

 

 

This must be a different Cabot surely??

[InKogneeToh]

Sorry - internet connection playing silly b's again!

[InKogneeToh]

No ... tbern wrote it

 

Well it must have been tbern, seahorse and debtmountain then because it's actually 3 separate quotes from happy debtors - yeah, that many!!

[InKogneeToh]

Value Creation

The enhancement of asset value through our unique debt lifecycle methodology.

 

Just found this other interesting snippet from the Cabot bible. Debt lifecycle methodology - hmmm!! - not too difficult to work out what this means or what 'methodology' they employ!!

[InKogneeToh]

InKogneeToh,

 

Nice Avatar

 

 

Tide

 

OMG!! There's a whole flock of me now!!

[InKogneeToh]

There is no methodology they are greedy businessmen looking to make a fast buck and so end up debt collecting.

 

Hi Rhia

 

I think their 'debt life-cycle methodology' refers to the way that they buy 'near statute barred' debts (near end of life-cycle) and then extend their value and their life-cycle by coercing/tricking/bullying debtors into admitting the debt and therefore renewing the 6 year limitation period!

 

Regards, Pam

[InKogneeToh]

Name & Registered Office:

ATLAS CORPORATE SERVICES LIMITED

WALMAR HOUSE 5TH FLOOR

288 REGENT STREET

LONDON

W1B 3AL

Company No. 03717497

 

Status: Active

Date of Incorporation: 17/02/1999

 

Country of Origin: United Kingdom

Company Type: Private Limited Company

Nature of Business (SIC(03)):

7499 - Non-trading company

Accounting Reference Date: 31/12

Last Accounts Made Up To: 31/12/2005 (DORMANT)

Next Accounts Due: 31/10/2007

Last Return Made Up To: 17/02/2007

Next Return Due: 16/03/2008

Last Members List: 17/02/2007

Previous Names:Date of changePrevious Name30/03/2005VENTURETECH CORPORATE SERVICES LIMITED

12/03/1999CABOT FINANCIAL (EUROPE) LIMITED

 

Hmmm!! Well at least they're very 'green' - they do love to recycle!!

[InKogneeToh]

Hi tbern

 

Another great letter but IMO the overall tone of it is far too NICE! Too many 'request's and 'hope's and 'trust's!!

 

Just tell 'em (politely of course) that you have had enough of their attempts to mislead you with their inaccurate representations of their position and rights and of their blatant disregard for the legislation that was enacted to protect the consumer!!

 

Regards, Pam

[InKogneeToh]

Hi all

 

Thought you might be interested in the following article I found today on assignment of debts:

 

Lawdit Solicitors - Intellectual Property Solicitors. Southampton Free Legal Articles about Copyright Trade Marks Media Law Patents Data Protection and more

 

Regards, Pam

[InKogneeToh]

10 seconds of reading and I'm already hooked. Ties in with my last email to Cabot somewhat.

 

I'm going to read more.

 

Pam, you're a star. Have another nudge towards your green blobs.

 

Hi again and many thanks for the rep.

 

I'm wondering if the following means what I hope it means, that the entire contract has to be assigned and not just the debt!??! We need a CAG legal eagle's opinion I think:

 

The assignment must be in writing, signed by the assignor, absolute (not purporting to be by way of charge only)

 

Regards, Pam

[InKogneeToh]

Done!

[InKogneeToh]

WOW!!!!!

 

I'd just like to say as a newbie on here, what a thread!!!

 

Its taken me over 3 days (single working mum with debts) to read and i'm impressed, really.

 

Would like to add that I recently had a letter from Cabot about some debt or other that I know nothing about. After a telephone call sometime in 2005 I denied all knowledge and was advised by their staff member to go to the police to inform of identity fraud.

 

Would just like to say that once I get another letter from them, as i destroyed the last one will CCA them, start a new thread and ask for help if I may. Only thing I'm worried about is have they bucked up their ideas since all of this with tbern? Hope they haven't and I might hit lucky.

 

Will keep monitoring with baited breath!

 

Keep up the good work guys

 

Hi and welcome to CAG

 

And no, there is no evidence that Cabot have changed their ways or intend to!

 

Post up here if they bother you again and tbern's army will see them off! :D

 

Regards, Pam

[InKogneeToh]

tBern and co would be nothing without people like you, Pam. A veritable oasis of helpful advice in a desert of corruption. (OOH. I'd better write that one down.)

 

:cool:

[InKogneeToh]

 

 

 

Had a HP agreement with GE Money, they got snotty and charged me a few times cos of late payments as a result of their inability to correctly set up a DD, as its now settled, can i proceed with chasing them for added chargesw?

 

 

Hi

 

Yes you can still reclaim charges from them. Set up a thread of your own in 'Other Institutions' (I think) and you will soon get lots of GE haters willing to assist you.

 

Regards, Pam

[InKogneeToh]

I am in the process of putting a pack together for the Judge, including copies of correspondance and copies of information from my SAR. This will show the "inconsistentcies" in their defence

 

Does anyone know, if I have to also send a copy to Cabot ?

 

Hi tbern

 

Once the judge has read the amended POC/defence etc. he will make a further directions order, which may or may not include exchanging witness statements/copies of docs relied on etc (the 'bundle') If this is required each party normally has to exchange these by a given date and file in court.

 

Regards, Pam

[InKogneeToh]

At some point you need to send a copy to Cabot. There are tactics involved in the production/timing of court bundles. Submit them at the last possible moment. Giving your opponent less time to counter. Keep them in the dark as long as possible.

 

This may not be relevant to England but can be adapted.

 

In the Scottish system if the opportunity arises hold the documents until the hearing date. This is effective during the prelim stages. When it gets to proof hearings the judge wants to see the rules applied. There's an advantage to delaying documents during the early stages and then following the rules strictly later.

 

You need to find a copy of the court rules of engagement for England.

In Scotland it's the Act of Sederunt. There will be a similar system/set-up for down south.

 

Have been to court defending several times now and shadowed a heavy weight solicitor on another case and they tend to play outside the rules/deadlines when they can get away with it.

 

Follow your heart. Your not a solicitor. Your not expected to understand all the rules and procedures. Use ignorance to your advantage. When the opposition makes a procedural mistake be prepared to point it out. They are expected to understand the rules and procedures.

 

Hi

 

It's the Civil Procedure Rules for England and the many in-depth practice directions:

 

CPR - Parts and Practice Directions

 

Happy reading!

 

But I agree that it's good to hold your ammo until the last permissible nano-second. You can bet your sweet life they will!!

 

Regards, Pam

[InKogneeToh]

Hi

 

Can anyone help this Cager upload a readable image please?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/64833-what-should-i-do-4.html#post711157

 

Cheers, Pam

[InKogneeToh]

2. By a letter dated 12th May 2006, Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited, acting as agent of the Defendant and on its behalf, informed the Claimant that:

 

i) HSBC's rights under the HSBC account had been assigned to the Defendant;

ii) the balance outstanding and due to be repaid by the Claimanton the HSBC account was £*,***.**

iii) accounts assigned to the Defendant were serviced by Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited;

iv) Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited was authorised to receive payment on behalf of the Defendant and all correspondence should be addressed to Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited;

v) information about the Claimant's debt might be sent to the Credit Reference Agencies; and

vi) any information obtained would be used for the purpose of collecting debt.

 

Hi - my thoughts, point by point where applicable, starting with this one:

 

(i) They are stating that they have been assigned the rights under an account but have failed to show how/why they are entitled to enforce the terms of a regulated credit agreement that would have given rise to that 'account'.

 

(ii) Prove it! What where the terms/the initial credit amount/date and rate of each repayment??

 

(iv) Maybe, but first the Defendant has to show that the Claimant is actually the person who owes the money and under what contract he agreed to pay it in the first place!

 

(v) Prove it's the claimant's debt

 

11. It is not admitted that the Defendant was at any time the creditor under the agreement for the HSBC account for the purposes of section 77, 78 or 97 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (“the 1974 Act”). Section 189(1) of the 1974 Act provides that, unless the context other requires,

 

“Creditor' means the person providing credit under a consumer credit agreement or the person (did you not understand this bit then?)to whom his rights and duties under the agreement have passed by assignment or operation of law”.

 

The Defendant never provided credit (read the section above again - you don't have to have provided credit!!)under any agreement with the Claimant and, although the rights of HSBC under the HSBC account were assigned to the Defendant, the duties of HSBC under the agreement for the account did not pass to the Defendant by assignment, by operation of law, or at all. (Surprise Surprise! )

 

See my comments above

[InKogneeToh]

15. It is admitted that, by letters dated 28th January 2007, the Claimant made subject access requests, under the Data Protection Act 1998 (“the 1998 act”), for copies of all data relating to the Claimant that was held by the Defendant and for copies of all data relating to the Claimant that was held by Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited. It is further admitted that, by letter dated 20th February 2007, Hodsons, solicitors acting on behalf of the Defendant, informed the Claimant that the Defendant did not hold any data in relation to the Claimant.

 

You may not 'hold' data relevant to the claimant but some has certainly been 'processed' in your (Kings Hill) company name - e.g. the assignment of the debt from the original creditor to you and your subsequent appointment of CF(E) Ltd and Hodsons as your appointed agents.

 

"processing", in relation to information or data, means obtaining, recording or holding the information or data or carrying out any operation or set of operations on the information or data, including-

 

(a) organisation, adaptation or alteration of the information or data,

 

(b) retrieval, consultation or use of the information or data,

 

© disclosure of the information or data by transmission, dissemination or otherwise making available, or

 

(d) alignment, combination, blocking, erasure or destruction of the information or data;

 

17. It is denied that the Defendant disclosed the Claimant's personal data to Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited, HSBC supplied Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited with information relating to the Claimant as set out in the letter dated 19th February which is refferred to in paragraph 16 above, and Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited subsequently disclosed that information to Hodsons and to UK Changes.

 

Ah yes, but who (as owner of the debt) gave HSBC authority to do that then - uummm!)

 

18. The Defendant us unable to prove the Claimant consented to the disclosure of his personal date in relation to the HSBC account by HSBC to third parties. HSBC has retained no copy of the agreement for the HSBC account.

 

The defendant is also unable to prove that it is the claimant who owes this alleged debt in the first place then!

 

19. Disclosure of personal data of the Claimant in relation to the HSBC account to Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited and such processing of that data as has been undertaken by Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited, including it disclosure to Hodsons and to UK Changes has been fair and lawful, whether or not the Claimant consented to such disclosure and such other processing, in that it was necessary for the purposes of legitimate interests pursued by the data controller, namely debt collection and defending this claim, and the Claimant was informed that his data would be processed for the purpose of debt collecting by the letter data 12th May 2006, which is referred to in paragraph 2 above. The Defendant will rely upon section 4, paragraphs 1 to 3 of Part II of Schedule 1, and paragraph 6(1) of Schedule 2 to the 1998 Act

 

All very interesting, but remind us again how these 'legitimate interests' and this 'fair and lawful' disclosure and processing sits with a situation in which the data processor has no proof whatsoever that it is the claimant that actually owes YOU any money!

 

23. Compensation is only payable under section 13 of the 1998 Act where an individual suffers pecuniary damage by reason of a contravention by a data controller of any of the requirements of the 1998 Act. The Defendant will rely upon the express provisions of section 13(1) and (2) and Johnson v The Medical Defence Union, Times 4th April 2006. The Claimant does not allege that he has suffered any pecuniary damage by rweason of the alledged contraventions of the 1998 Act and it is denied that he has suffered any such damage.

 

 

Bit out of date here with your info folks!

 

24. It is denied, for the reasons set out in paragraphs 11, 12, 13 and 14 above, that the Defendant has committed any offence under the 1974 Act.

 

Perhaps you should employ someone who can actually read and understand the CCA before your hole gets any bigger!

 

As their defence is full of half truths and inconsistencies, is their anyway I can get the Judge to through out and disregard their defence ?

[InKogneeToh]

Hi

 

But what are they doing with BOS 'headed' paper in the first place??

 

Is this a 'replica' or photocopied heading or have BOS sent them reams of headed paper (just in case they need it! )??

 

I wonder how many other versions of suitably 'headed' paper they have?

 

Regards, Pam

[InKogneeToh]

No Eggs?!? That's just not on! My OH is a diamond and gets me one every year. I am such a lucky bunny!

[InKogneeToh]

Oops!

 

Ummmmm............................... will next year's do?

[InKogneeToh]

Wot, you ate it?

 

Burp!