Mellymum vs HSBC - ****WON!****

[pinkduchess]

well done - my two links aren't working I mean't

[GetYourHandsOfMyStack]

cheers guys!

[querkyone]

Can EVERYONE Please look and see what they have regards Terms and Conditions???

 

If possible, SCAN and save as a PDF, then have them posted in the Library.

 

Save as "T+C month/year"

 

I'm looking, can EVERYONE else please do the same

[welshbaba]

I found t/c's dated 2/12/04 but these are regarding overdraft facilities. Any good/use?

Sha

[Celicaman]

Just a thought guys, ( sorry & girls) we are looking for copies of terms and conditions , Right, They are printed , Right. They were printed by a printing firm. right, then ok anybody following where this is going............

Contact the printers whos name is probably along the bottom of the T & C. or find out who does the printing for them, either way they will have archives of everything they have printed (hopefully)

Well its worth a try

 

CM

[stax68]

I sent a "request for further information" under CPR part 18 just over a week ago (before the Lloyd's case), asking among other things for all the T&Cs. I sent it by email after getting them to agree that I could serve documents by that method, as preferred in the CPR.

 

I gave them a week to send me the (signed) contract doc and all the T&Cs. They haven't responded at all. I'm about to send a followup email. I have a case management hearing in a week's time, so I'll be interested to see what the judge makes of this.

 

I'll keep you all posted, and in teh meantime I'd be glad of any advice anyone has. However, I have a feeling there may be limitations on what I can do with the info they provide under part 18 - though how they could claim a right to keep secret their own published T&Cs I don't know. Anyone have any further info on that issue?

 

The email is reproduced here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/55086-stax68-hsbc.html#post823126

 

and for convenience the relevant bits of the request are here:

 

(...)

Meaning of terms:

The claim: proceedings at XXXXX County Court the claim number of which is XXXXXX

The claimant: XXXXXXXXX , claimant in the claim.

The bank: HSBC bank plc, defendant in the claim, previously trading as Midland Bank.

The account: The personal bank account identifiable by the account number XXXXXXX and held by the claimant at the XXXXXXXX branch of the bank.

The contract: the contract or agreement, governing the operation of the account, entered into between the claimant and the bank.

The start date: 2 September 1997

Today: Thursday 10 May 2007

 

The claimant requests and requires the defendant to supply further information relating to the claim as set out in numbered paragraphs below.

The claimant requests and requires that all such information be supplied by post or by hand, and where possible by email, within two weeks of today - that is, before 00:25 on 24 May 2007 - in the case of items 3-23, and in the case of items 1 and 2, which the claimant considers to be extremely straighforward, within 7 days - that is, before 00:25 on 17 May 2007. the claimant believes these timescales to be reasonable given that the defendant is a large corporation with dedidated departments and that it is reasonable to assume that much of the information requested must already have been gathered in checking the truth of the defendant's statement of defence.

 

The claimant requests and requires that any item or part of an item which is not supplied within the indicated timescale shall nonetheless be provided as soon as possible thereafter, and that a delay in providing one item or part thereof shall not be taken to justify delay in providing any other item or part of an item.

 

The claimant requests and requires that the defendant provide reasons for any delay in providing, or failure to provide, any item of information requested herein, and that these reasons be provided within the timescale indicated for supply of the information concerned. In the case of delay, an indication should at the same time be given as to when the information will be made available - and reasons given why it cannot be made available more quickly.

 

The defendant is advised that any good reason it may have to refrain from suppling, or delay the supply of, any of the items listed, or any or part of an item, does not relieve the defendant of the requirement to supply all other items or parts of items within the timescale specified or as soon thereafter as is reasonably possible.

(...)

The defendant is advised to consult carefully the provisions of part 18 of the Civil Procedure Rules and the practice directions which accompany it.

 

The information requested and required comprises the following items:

 

1. Any original document, or a true copy thereof, which specifies, explicitly and/or by reference to other documents, the terms of the contract and/or records the inception of the contract. If a version of such a document exists which bears the claimant's signature that version or a true copy thereof should be supplied.

 

2. True copies of all documents setting out terms and conditions or price lists, and any other documents which actually or purportedly specified, supplemented, or varied the provisions of the contract:

(a) at the commencement of the contract

(b) at the start date

© from time to time throughout the life of the contract up to and including today.

(...)

[stax68]

Hey publicenemyno1, did you have any luck finding those old T&Cs?

[LEECHTHEBREACH]

See my new thread on t & c,s when I work out how to send them all folks!!!!!

Leech

[jowalshy]

I have just phoned the printers of HSBC's terms and conditions. The guy wasn't sure but he thinks that they may have back dated copies of old t &C's. The actual company who does the printing is only 7 miles from me so I will pop along there on Monday and ask if they have any I could have.

[Celicaman]

JW you are a star.

hope they got them going back long way, maybe you could ask printer if they want any more business printing them off for the 1000's HSBC customers eagerly waiting

 

CM

[HSBCrusher]

dont forget to send them to us as well...

pretty please... lol

[mellymum]

Agghhh help! I was printing off my statements at work from online and realised Ive made a mistake with my charges, I'd put down I had £50 come out on 19/06/05 but I didnt, but then found two other charges of £27.50? Im going to send an ammended schdule to the solicitors tommorow, have I messed it all up for the sake of £3.00??? (In my favour) I was going to put in the letter that I will still happy to accept the original figure. Oh also, do you 'pause' the interest calculations on your spreadsheet at any time as everyday that goes by the figure changes with more interest, or can this carry on until the court date??

[mellymum]

Hiya, just found this, is it worth putting in my court bundle??

 

Bank Charges - Alway Associates

 

I was actually looking for an example of the Robinson v Harman [1848] 1 Exch 850 as it is mentioned in the witness statement. Does anyone know where I can find this?

Anyone??

[mellymum]

Also reading through the witness statement, it mentions asking the bank to justify its charges providing details of the costs incurred as a result of my contractual breaches. Is there a letter that I can use the wording of this to the Solicitors so I can at least say I tried asking? Also' - Additionally, I asked the Defendant to provide evidence of any manual intervention that may have occurred in relation to my account, under a Data Protection Act 1998 right of subject access request. No such information was forthcoming.' again is there any wording I can use in my letter so this has been mentioned?

[Castlebest]

Hiya Melly, the draft directions have the wording for justification of bank charges which I think you can edit to your needs and I think you will find the wording to edit for manual intervention on the SAR template.

 

pete

[mellymum]

Hiya, can someone tell me if Ive messed up by getting my calculations wrong???

[mellymum]

Post 41.... can anyone help me?

[mellymum]

Probably going to stick to my original schedule of charges, but put statements in for the right ones, I dont think DG will want to pick it up as it will cost them more as the two I found are further back, so the total difference is quite a bit more in my favour.Drafted a letter asking the last two things I mentioned earlier, at least in my witness statement I can say Ive asked.Next I just have the court bundle document to go through, think I will attach the document I mentioned in post 42, wont hurt to have a little more evidence and examples! Any news on Terms and Conditions being available?

[mellymum]

How does this sound? It has come to my attention that as of 11/04/07, that an Allocation Questionaire may not be required in this case. I am mindful of the vast number of claims with which you are currently dealing. In order to more speedily resolve this matter, I am willing to accept the sum of £1,261.02. I do not agree to waive my rights in respect of any other actions, nor do I agree to a clause of confidentiality. Could I also request the following information so I can include your response in my court preparation regarding the charges: a) If such charge is alleged to be a pre-estimate of your defendants loss incurred by my actions (whether or not such action is treated as a breach of contract between the parties), can you provide a breakdown showing that this was a proper estimate of such loss. b) If such charge is not alleged to be a pre-estimate of your defendents loss incurred by my actions then can you provide a breakdown showing the basis upon which the charge was calculated to show that the charge was fair and reasonable. Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your defendants staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my banking business with your defendant. If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response. I hope to hear from you very soon so that a reasonable conclusion to this claim might be achieved. I am sure that the courts would approve of our settling this matter in a timely manner and without their further intervention. For your records, I enclose another copy of my schedule of charges. I look forward to hearing from you.

[mellymum]

bump... yes im needy! Just need someone to tell me Im doing the right thing!

[mellymum]

Well luckily where I work at the Library, the CAB office for Weymouth is in our grounds, so I got someone from the CAB to look at my letter and he said it was great. He used to proof read government documents so he knew his stuff! He had complete faith that we would win our money. If the bank doesnt turn up at court I win by default. I mentioned the Lloyds case where the bank didnt turn up but still won and he feels it was just one that slipped through the net.

 

Gave me a bit more confidence to keep going!

[mellymum]

Hiya, if Im with HSBC would it benefit adding the Macnamera interview to my court bundle as stated as he was a Lloyds customer?? Not sure if I should be putting it in or not.

 

Cheers

 

Jodie

[Celicaman]

Hi MM, doesnt seem like anybody has helped you much on your posts, ( Except castlebest) sometimes they get missed, I cant answer much on what you have posted.

Try posting on another thread that relates to something on your claim, ie court bundles. Use' search box' will prob bring a few up threads.

 

As for couple of missed items, i think DG would have filed in defence' insufficient information, or incorrect claims ' or something to that effect if they had spotted it, and as you said you missed a couple things in favour of both that pretty much balanced scales, to have to do N244 amendments now would just be a pain and cost more than worth.

Best i can do

 

Good Luck

CM

[mellymum]

Hiya, thanks for replying! That has reasurred me a lot! I hope they wont pick up on it as it would cost them more anyway, but for what its worth Im happy with the original figure, its my fault anyway! I cant imagine they cross check everybody's table anyway, its would take them forever.

 

Im just concerned about the court bundle now, want to get that right and not make any last minute mistakes. Might get CAB to look at my bundle as well for me.

[Castlebest]

Hiya Melly, sorry we have been ignoring you but fortunately you seem to have everything under control.

The best thing to do with the court bundle is to download the basic document from the library here and just start to read through it making notes of where you need to add things and what to add then start to assemble it electronicaly and if you get stuck post a question here.

You will have a date to submit it by in your court date notification there really is little point in printing anything out until about a week before the deadline (it will be about 600 pages).

pete