Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • Sunak tried to stop the public seeing this report. Rishi Sunak ordered to publish secret analysis showing Universal Credit cut impact - Mirror Online WWW.MIRROR.CO.UK As Chancellor, Rishi Sunak ignored pleas from campaigners including footballer Marcus Rashford by scrapping the £20-per-week Universal Credit...  
    • A full-scale strike at the firm could have an impact on the global supply chains of electronics.View the full article
    • He was one of four former top executives from Sam Bankman-Fried's firms to plead guilty to charges.View the full article
    • The private submersible industry was shaken after the implosion of the OceanGate Titan sub last year.View the full article
    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like

Mellymum vs HSBC - ****WON!****


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 6195 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 108
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Can EVERYONE Please look and see what they have regards Terms and Conditions???

 

If possible, SCAN and save as a PDF, then have them posted in the Library.

 

Save as "T+C month/year"

 

I'm looking, can EVERYONE else please do the same

Initial Letter 23/12/06

LBA 14/01/07

MCOL 1/3/07

Acknowledged 3/3/07

Defended 27/03/07

Transferred 3/4/07

Stay Ordered 27th April

Stay Set Aside 14th May

COURT DATE 5th JUNE 2007

 

Waiting on offer just under £5K

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a thought guys, ( sorry & girls) we are looking for copies of terms and conditions , Right, They are printed , Right. They were printed by a printing firm. right, then ok anybody following where this is going............

Contact the printers whos name is probably along the bottom of the T & C. or find out who does the printing for them, either way they will have archives of everything they have printed (hopefully)

Well its worth a try

 

CM

Templates Library

 

GE Capital Won

Capital 0ne Won

Northern rock Claim stayed working on negotiation

HSBC personal claim 1 ''WON''.

£1800 plus full stat interest plus costs.

Claim started 14/02/07 offer 3/07/07

 

Next:Coming soon to a thread near you! :)

HSBC personal Part 2 'return of the Celicaman'

HSBC business 1 ' my empire strikes back' N1 claim POC in progress after usual offensive offer from bank

HSBC business 2 'attack of the Celicaman'

HSBC business claim 3 'bank account menace'

HSBC business 4 'Revenge of the CAG Member' the final insult ....................... 'Maybe'

Link to post
Share on other sites

I sent a "request for further information" under CPR part 18 just over a week ago (before the Lloyd's case), asking among other things for all the T&Cs. I sent it by email after getting them to agree that I could serve documents by that method, as preferred in the CPR.

 

I gave them a week to send me the (signed) contract doc and all the T&Cs. They haven't responded at all. I'm about to send a followup email. I have a case management hearing in a week's time, so I'll be interested to see what the judge makes of this.

 

I'll keep you all posted, and in teh meantime I'd be glad of any advice anyone has. However, I have a feeling there may be limitations on what I can do with the info they provide under part 18 - though how they could claim a right to keep secret their own published T&Cs I don't know. Anyone have any further info on that issue?

 

The email is reproduced here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/55086-stax68-hsbc.html#post823126

 

and for convenience the relevant bits of the request are here:

 

(...)

Meaning of terms:

The claim: proceedings at XXXXX County Court the claim number of which is XXXXXX

The claimant: XXXXXXXXX , claimant in the claim.

The bank: HSBC bank plc, defendant in the claim, previously trading as Midland Bank.

The account: The personal bank account identifiable by the account number XXXXXXX and held by the claimant at the XXXXXXXX branch of the bank.

The contract: the contract or agreement, governing the operation of the account, entered into between the claimant and the bank.

The start date: 2 September 1997

Today: Thursday 10 May 2007

 

The claimant requests and requires the defendant to supply further information relating to the claim as set out in numbered paragraphs below.

The claimant requests and requires that all such information be supplied by post or by hand, and where possible by email, within two weeks of today - that is, before 00:25 on 24 May 2007 - in the case of items 3-23, and in the case of items 1 and 2, which the claimant considers to be extremely straighforward, within 7 days - that is, before 00:25 on 17 May 2007. the claimant believes these timescales to be reasonable given that the defendant is a large corporation with dedidated departments and that it is reasonable to assume that much of the information requested must already have been gathered in checking the truth of the defendant's statement of defence.

 

The claimant requests and requires that any item or part of an item which is not supplied within the indicated timescale shall nonetheless be provided as soon as possible thereafter, and that a delay in providing one item or part thereof shall not be taken to justify delay in providing any other item or part of an item.

 

The claimant requests and requires that the defendant provide reasons for any delay in providing, or failure to provide, any item of information requested herein, and that these reasons be provided within the timescale indicated for supply of the information concerned. In the case of delay, an indication should at the same time be given as to when the information will be made available - and reasons given why it cannot be made available more quickly.

 

The defendant is advised that any good reason it may have to refrain from suppling, or delay the supply of, any of the items listed, or any or part of an item, does not relieve the defendant of the requirement to supply all other items or parts of items within the timescale specified or as soon thereafter as is reasonably possible.

(...)

The defendant is advised to consult carefully the provisions of part 18 of the Civil Procedure Rules and the practice directions which accompany it.

 

The information requested and required comprises the following items:

 

1. Any original document, or a true copy thereof, which specifies, explicitly and/or by reference to other documents, the terms of the contract and/or records the inception of the contract. If a version of such a document exists which bears the claimant's signature that version or a true copy thereof should be supplied.

 

2. True copies of all documents setting out terms and conditions or price lists, and any other documents which actually or purportedly specified, supplemented, or varied the provisions of the contract:

(a) at the commencement of the contract

(b) at the start date

© from time to time throughout the life of the contract up to and including today.

(...)

Link to post
Share on other sites

See my new thread on t & c,s when I work out how to send them all folks!!!!!

Leech

  • Haha 1

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/site-questions-suggestions/53182-cant-find-what-youre.html#post436526

click my scales if you think i am helpful ! yes LHS down there !!

Once more into the breach dear friends,once more

or close the wall up with our banks dead ,

The games afoot,follow your spirit and upon this charge

Cry 'God for Harry' England and St George

Henry V battle of Agincourt 1415

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have just phoned the printers of HSBC's terms and conditions. The guy wasn't sure but he thinks that they may have back dated copies of old t &C's. The actual company who does the printing is only 7 miles from me so I will pop along there on Monday and ask if they have any I could have.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]If you think my post was helpful, please feel free to click my scales

 

 

A prudent question is one-half of wisdom.

 

:D

Link to post
Share on other sites

JW you are a star.

hope they got them going back long way, maybe you could ask printer if they want any more business printing them off for the 1000's HSBC customers eagerly waiting :cool:

 

CM

Templates Library

 

GE Capital Won

Capital 0ne Won

Northern rock Claim stayed working on negotiation

HSBC personal claim 1 ''WON''.

£1800 plus full stat interest plus costs.

Claim started 14/02/07 offer 3/07/07

 

Next:Coming soon to a thread near you! :)

HSBC personal Part 2 'return of the Celicaman'

HSBC business 1 ' my empire strikes back' N1 claim POC in progress after usual offensive offer from bank

HSBC business 2 'attack of the Celicaman'

HSBC business claim 3 'bank account menace'

HSBC business 4 'Revenge of the CAG Member' the final insult ....................... 'Maybe'

Link to post
Share on other sites

Agghhh help! :eek: I was printing off my statements at work from online and realised Ive made a mistake with my charges, I'd put down I had £50 come out on 19/06/05 but I didnt, but then found two other charges of £27.50? Im going to send an ammended schdule to the solicitors tommorow, have I messed it all up for the sake of £3.00??? (In my favour) I was going to put in the letter that I will still happy to accept the original figure. Oh also, do you 'pause' the interest calculations on your spreadsheet at any time as everyday that goes by the figure changes with more interest, or can this carry on until the court date?? :confused:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Also reading through the witness statement, it mentions asking the bank to justify its charges providing details of the costs incurred as a result of my contractual breaches. Is there a letter that I can use the wording of this to the Solicitors so I can at least say I tried asking? Also' - Additionally, I asked the Defendant to provide evidence of any manual intervention that may have occurred in relation to my account, under a Data Protection Act 1998 right of subject access request. No such information was forthcoming.' again is there any wording I can use in my letter so this has been mentioned?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hiya Melly, the draft directions have the wording for justification of bank charges which I think you can edit to your needs and I think you will find the wording to edit for manual intervention on the SAR template.

 

pete

Link to post
Share on other sites

Probably going to stick to my original schedule of charges, but put statements in for the right ones, I dont think DG will want to pick it up as it will cost them more as the two I found are further back, so the total difference is quite a bit more in my favour.Drafted a letter asking the last two things I mentioned earlier, at least in my witness statement I can say Ive asked.Next I just have the court bundle document to go through, think I will attach the document I mentioned in post 42, wont hurt to have a little more evidence and examples! Any news on Terms and Conditions being available?

Link to post
Share on other sites

How does this sound? It has come to my attention that as of 11/04/07, that an Allocation Questionaire may not be required in this case. I am mindful of the vast number of claims with which you are currently dealing. In order to more speedily resolve this matter, I am willing to accept the sum of £1,261.02. I do not agree to waive my rights in respect of any other actions, nor do I agree to a clause of confidentiality. Could I also request the following information so I can include your response in my court preparation regarding the charges: a) If such charge is alleged to be a pre-estimate of your defendants loss incurred by my actions (whether or not such action is treated as a breach of contract between the parties), can you provide a breakdown showing that this was a proper estimate of such loss. b) If such charge is not alleged to be a pre-estimate of your defendents loss incurred by my actions then can you provide a breakdown showing the basis upon which the charge was calculated to show that the charge was fair and reasonable. Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your defendants staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my banking business with your defendant. If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response. I hope to hear from you very soon so that a reasonable conclusion to this claim might be achieved. I am sure that the courts would approve of our settling this matter in a timely manner and without their further intervention. For your records, I enclose another copy of my schedule of charges. I look forward to hearing from you.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well luckily where I work at the Library, the CAB office for Weymouth is in our grounds, so I got someone from the CAB to look at my letter and he said it was great. He used to proof read government documents so he knew his stuff! He had complete faith that we would win our money. If the bank doesnt turn up at court I win by default. I mentioned the Lloyds case where the bank didnt turn up but still won and he feels it was just one that slipped through the net.

 

Gave me a bit more confidence to keep going!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi MM, doesnt seem like anybody has helped you much on your posts, ( Except castlebest) sometimes they get missed, I cant answer much on what you have posted.

Try posting on another thread that relates to something on your claim, ie court bundles. Use' search box' will prob bring a few up threads.

 

As for couple of missed items, i think DG would have filed in defence' insufficient information, or incorrect claims ' or something to that effect if they had spotted it, and as you said you missed a couple things in favour of both that pretty much balanced scales, to have to do N244 amendments now would just be a pain and cost more than worth.

Best i can do

 

Good Luck

CM

  • Haha 1

Templates Library

 

GE Capital Won

Capital 0ne Won

Northern rock Claim stayed working on negotiation

HSBC personal claim 1 ''WON''.

£1800 plus full stat interest plus costs.

Claim started 14/02/07 offer 3/07/07

 

Next:Coming soon to a thread near you! :)

HSBC personal Part 2 'return of the Celicaman'

HSBC business 1 ' my empire strikes back' N1 claim POC in progress after usual offensive offer from bank

HSBC business 2 'attack of the Celicaman'

HSBC business claim 3 'bank account menace'

HSBC business 4 'Revenge of the CAG Member' the final insult ....................... 'Maybe'

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hiya, thanks for replying! That has reasurred me a lot! I hope they wont pick up on it as it would cost them more anyway, but for what its worth Im happy with the original figure, its my fault anyway! I cant imagine they cross check everybody's table anyway, its would take them forever.

 

Im just concerned about the court bundle now, want to get that right and not make any last minute mistakes. Might get CAB to look at my bundle as well for me.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hiya Melly, sorry we have been ignoring you :eek: but fortunately you seem to have everything under control.

The best thing to do with the court bundle is to download the basic document from the library here and just start to read through it making notes of where you need to add things and what to add then start to assemble it electronicaly and if you get stuck post a question here.

You will have a date to submit it by in your court date notification there really is little point in printing anything out until about a week before the deadline (it will be about 600 pages).

pete

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...