Credit AGREEMENT -or- APPLICATION? RBS Advantage Card

[The Lantana]

I think what this boils down to is there is no obligation to follow a lower courts ruling. The bottom line is, if you are dissed by a DJ then appeal (if you reckon you have valid reasons).

 

Regards

 

Lantana

[The Lantana]

pudster, we've traded posts already but I remain genuinely amazed that in 2004 Amex were still producing nonsense like this.

 

Bring it on!

 

Regards

 

Lantana

[The Lantana]

Banks can avoid this nonsense by taking a very simple step - operate within the law (I'll call it 'OWL')

 

Regards

 

Lantana

 

PS. Obviously a nice time was had in the pub by me tonight.

[The Lantana]

As pudster says there are key things missing namely interest rate, credit limit and repayments. It's not a compliant agreement.

 

My concern here is that they may have simply made a poor copy, they may have the full thing. In this instance I'd personally be inclined to write back asking them to try again.

 

Regards

 

Lantana

[The Lantana]

Well if it's all they have you're home and dry.

 

Regards

 

Lantana

[The Lantana]

Peter

 

I read somewhere that all prescribed terms must be on the same page as the signature box, but can't for the life of me think where. Can you source it?

 

Regards

 

Lantana

[The Lantana]

Please do post it davefirewalker.

 

Regards

 

Lantana

[The Lantana]

I must admit I'm amazed welcome wrote that off so easily. Fixed sum agreements aren't my strong point (yet), but most of the key stuff is there - although presumably they should have put in something about cancellation rights. Maybe they've been really bloodied in court lately.

 

Like you dfw I'd have expected a battle. Nice result.

 

Regards

 

Lantana

[The Lantana]

Nice letter, lovely result.

 

Regards

 

Lantana

[The Lantana]

So Dave and Pam, IMHO with the repeal of 127 (3) we now have complete clarity under the act that an agreement signed by the borrower, but not signed by the lender, is unexecuted - and therefore not made.

 

This could be good news.

 

Regards

 

Lantana

[The Lantana]

Davefirewalker, as I understand it the regs require all the key terms to be on the signature page. I read 'page' somewhere rather than 'document' but can't actually find my original source. Subsequently, on the Behemoth thread, Peter Bard told me the regs stipulate the key terms must be on the signature page. I haven't a copy of the particular regs (1983/1553 I think) to check for myself though.

 

Regards

 

Lantana

[The Lantana]

Pam

 

Please excuse my delay in coming back on s62 / s63.

 

The definitions section of the act defines 'executed agreement' and 'unexecuted agreement' but doesn't define 'not properly executed agreement' or 'improperly-executed agreement'

 

However...

 

s62 (3) and s63 (5) say: A regulated agreement is not properly executed if the requirements of this section are not observed.

 

And then we have:

 

's65 Consequences of Improper Execution

 

s65 (1) An improperly-executed regulated agreement is enforceable against the debtor or hirer on an order of the court only.'

 

 

 

Effect of s62 / s63 and s65

 

If you have an improperly executed agreement because the creditor hasn't signed it then, IMHO, this is of real value if a 'court order' to enforce an agreement is different from a 'County Court Judgement'.

 

It would mean the creditor invites me to court seeking his CCJ, I point out to my learned friends that I was not obliged to keep to the agreement because the agreement was improperly executed. The Judge therefore orders me to keep to the terms of the agreement in future, rather than awarding a CCJ against me. And presumably I shouldn't face costs either.

 

That assumes the Judge accepts the creditors argument that failing to sign the agreement is no big deal - if the creditor offers such a defence. Alternatively the Judge could wipe out the debt.

 

Any defaults etc. should be removed.

 

Alternatively, once the creditor becomes aware of his breach, he could serve an executed agreement on me, then if I wasn't able to keep to that he could go for his CCJ.

 

Regards

 

Lantana

[The Lantana]

Louis

 

IMHO, this is a valid enforceable agreement - sorry.

 

I think the fact that there is no % sign is unlikely to be considered a big deal by the Judge (but I could be wrong here). Also, though you never received the cancellation letter, did you chase them up at the time? Abbey / DCA will presumably say one was sent.

 

Regards

 

Lantana

[The Lantana]

Laiste, Zubo, joesoap, davefirewalker et al.. Amen to that.

 

Regards

 

Lantana