Limited Company Claims

[andrew1]

I am starting this thread to assist Limited Companies - there is another business thread for Non - Limited companies - sole traders etc http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/68191-claiming-business-account-lets.html

 

..but this thread, whilst claims are similar, would be useful to pool experiences

and knowledge.

 

Certain people have shown concern that their companies have closed down, often because of high bank charges in the past at times when business was tough - well I would like to explore this and many other elements where a business has suffered to see if we can help a few people out.

 

Please post here for any Limited Company Account and lets get going..

 

Good Luck

 

I am personally not a Moderator or Site Helper and have no special knowledge other than having had a Limited Company with claims. I do not know the legal arguments and will be learning as much as others, but I hope to draw those experiences from others too and hope everyone with claims can benefit from this thread.

[andrew1]

Great

 

I am iinvolved on the other thread re - Business Accounts but my claim is solely on Limited Companies and could really do with specific advice

 

The Claim is against BOS for c £ 9k

 

I have just sent the LBA action off and so far have not heard a thing - so need advice re court action and bundle of docs - I know I have to leave out all consumer references

 

On a seperate issue and another company Bos strung me for c £ 15.5k interest penalty when I transferred a business loan (variable rate). The facility letter stated that they MAY charge 3 months interest, and did.

 

This is a direct breach of OFT regulations OFT 620 and all associated documentation. The Banking Ombudsman has so far ruled on the Banks side and quite frankly been a homer. (They were never going to rule on our side, and ignored OFT docs when it suited them to)

 

But the battle will continue. Can anyone give advice on this, this is not a cost thing as we paid all legal costs, valuation costs and full arrangement fees, still waiting for justification other than "computer says no"

 

Things will hot up in a couple of weeks when court papers will be submitted.

 

Right, lets try and respond to all these questions coming here. I can't answer all these myself but we can get the ball rolling by making some suggestions such as getting a Template letter posted here for initial claims and the follow ups.

 

To answer these first questions of AJG "I have just sent the LBA action off and so far have not heard a thing - so need advice re court action and bundle of docs - I know I have to leave out all consumer references "

 

I think that the court process would be the same as our normal claims all be it in the name of the company. (I'll post further down about a dissolved or liquidated company)

 

On a seperate issue and another company Bos strung me for c £ 15.5k interest penalty when I transferred a business loan (variable rate). The facility letter stated that they MAY charge 3 months interest, and did.

 

This sounds just like another penalty which can be claimed. Have you made any requests yet to have this returned?

 

This is a direct breach of OFT regulations OFT 620 and all associated documentation. The Banking Ombudsman has so far ruled on the Banks side and quite frankly been a homer. (They were never going to rule on our side, and ignored OFT docs when it suited them to)

 

Can you explain what OFT 620 actually is so others can learn from it. I googled it but didn't come up with much. I'd imagine the Ombudsman, if it was a while before bank charges issues were raised in the public profile it is today, would have been a little unfamiliar with the unlawful process. I have the same with another bank on Excess fees. The Ombudsman was written to in 'June 2000 about the ruthlessness of the banks punitive charges but came in favour of the bank then - he's going to eat his words once I've finished, but it may be that the defense re statutes of Limitation can be argued against if one has complained in earlier years to the Ombudsman and that the clock began ticking then not from now.

[andrew1]

Hi Andrew1

 

Prelim letter sent 01/03/2007 for Natwest for a Limited Comp account we held between 2003/2004. This account is really the tester as it's only £330 (still, better in the companys bank account rather than theirs)

I have Barclays to hit soon, probably in the region of £5000 (This will cover the loan I have with them) so I am hoping to pay them off from the charges. At the moment Barclays have increased their Referall Fee from £10 to £30 so I know they are going to charge me quite hefy in the next quater. The annoying thing about Barclays is they will allow me to issue chq's upto £1000 overdrawn but charge me for the process. A year after having an £2000 overdraft they took this off me and forced me into taking a loan. I will let you all know the process of how it goes.

 

Danler

 

There have been claims from people who were forced to take loans to clear balances which are heavy in charges. It takes a little time to sort these out without upsetting the business relationship with the bank, but it's certainly something to pursue.

[andrew1]

Great idea for a thread!!!!!

 

I think one of the biggest questions I have seen asked is:

 

If the limited company is now dissolved; who or what? will the cheque eventually be made out too??

 

 

I look forward to every post within this thread

 

Innocent

 

This is an interesting one and one that I asked in another thread. I gather it all depends on the status of the company and your ' the directors' role in the financial relationship when the company was dissolved.

 

Dissolved - Just ceased trading and de-registered at companies House, No Creditors not Liquidated with creditors.

 

Liquidated - went into Receivership and Liquidation either Voluntarily or Compulsory winding up by Creditors.

 

If your company was Liquidated and had creditors then the monies will be made payable to the liquidator - Period!

 

If the company was Dissolved, I am lead to believe that so long as you inform the bank that you will be making the claim personally and that you can prove that the funding of the company came from you by way of a loan/ finance or that your financial input made sure any bank lender was cleared yourself, there is no reason why the monies should not be paid to you. also, if the bank overdraft/loan were guaranteed by you.

 

Trouble with dissolved companies is that effectively they do not exist anymore so how can you claim in the name of the company. I'd be interested in anyones views on this as this is exactly my position too on one of my claims. The claim covers 1998 - 2005, there were some minor creditors who just went away, but the bank o/d was cleared and loans taken out with other institutions to fund the company so a claim could be made by the ex-director in his name. I'd rather not mention the bank at this juncture.

 

any advice on this will be interesting to debate.

[andrew1]

Thanks for this, just subscribing for the future fight I'll be having with HSBC for my bro's business account (Ltd co.) Just out of interest, they now charge a management fee of £100 a month on his account, and don't charge him penalty fees anymore. One in place of the other hey?! Any thoughts on this?

 

Only that for ' service fees' you can't claim them back as a penalty charge. If it's any help or not too late if you become a member of the Federation of Small Business (FSB) then they have an - it costs all of £70 a year, you can have free banking with the Co-operative Bank. That's free transactions, not overdrafts!

At £100 a month it depends what you get for that or what the business needs are. Frankly, I used Lloyds for my business accounts once - it gave the business a good feel and they charged me a management fee each month to get direct link with a Manager - He was a waste of space at the best of times and I got all my charges refunded because of it. Generally there are some benefits depending on the type of business, but you can judge for yourself whether it's £1200 a year well spent.

 

With someone like Co-op - not exactly the cutting edge name, but the service is good and on-line banking too, suits me down to the ground. They also just paid excess O/D charges back without much ado too..

[andrew1]

I have another situation on these business accounts. There have been times when the company went over the overdraft a new overdraft facility had to be arranged to cover it and the bank charged 'Arrangement fees' of anything from £50 to £200 each time. Anyone believe these should/could be claimed back? I'm of the opinion that if the o/d had to be arranged to cover charges then they should be refunded.

[andrew1]

There's some interesting talk from an earlier thread..http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/70942-business-account-dissolved-company.html

[andrew1]

Would i be able to claim on a Ltd company account which the bank (Lloyds) closed themselves in Dec 1998, due to too many charges being put on every month (i used to pay in to cover them) so at the end there was nothing owing to the bank.

 

The account ran from June 1997 - Dec 1998 and there must have been £1000's of charges in that time.

 

I know this is over 6 years now.

 

The company itself is still open but not trading and i am still a director of it.

 

Hi tifo, I'd say yes. But they are likely to use the Limitations act. Be an interesting one to see because if they actually closed it because of the charges they will kinda be admitting to shooting themselves in the foot.

 

If you still have the statements I'd calculate what they have taken, write and ask them for the charges back. You realize you cannot send a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act to get statements for Limited Company Accounts - you are expected to keep them for a business account or pay for them again if you want them. That I'm afraid is a fee for a service!

 

Yes, in answer to your question, I'd go for it.

[andrew1]

That's an interesting one, what are you saying, the bank called in the guarantee from you both personally? If they did then I think you have every right to claim it personally but I understand if you make a claim you will have to state that you are claiming in person. Not sure of the wording but Humbleman was the one who seems to know a bit about this.. might be worth looking him up.

[andrew1]

It sounds like a joint and several guarantee which means one or either or both.

Has the company actually been wound up or put into liquidation? I don't actulally think that'll make a difference as if the charges caused the O?D then you should start your claim against the bank. Do you have the statements or has the liquidator got them. I'd ask them (Liquidator) for copies although the bank won't supply them for free on a business account.

[andrew1]

I have a claim going to a bank ( will not mention at this stage which one, but will reveal later) This Limited company was dissolved just over a year ago and the Director is claiming in person as he had raised loans to support the company's overdraft throughout its life, and the bank o/d was repaid in full by the director too. There are over £3200 worth of charges, £1400 in interest on those charges dating back to '97, the claim will take it with contractual and compounded interest to over £11000. We sent in the Preliminary letter just 4 days ago and already had a reply they will respond by end of the month. Not bad going for a bank. These are mainly Daily Excess charges £12 going over an agreed overdraft limit, sometimes by as little as £5. There were some returned D/D's and the odd cheque returned, but this is mainly Excess charges.

 

I expect both rejection through the usual T & C's argument - "you were told about them and have to pay them" and I expect them to raise the Limitations Act.

 

Will keep you posted on their reply and progress.

[andrew1]

I've copied this from Ppauls150 post in the business thread for non Limited...it's a common theme and be useful to get feed back for here...thanks PPaul...

 

"Excellent thread people. I agree there should be a dedicated section with regards to just business accounts set away from the personal accounts section under each heading. I have already claimed a large proportion back from the banks and credit card companies everyone of them caving in to my demands as i wouldn't back down. Now i am looking at claiming back on a business account and have done some research but wanted to clarify some things with anyone who can clear it up, or might even be of help or throw up a debate about things.

 

Firstly with regards to Overdraft setup fees from the bank manager. It is said that you cannot claim these back as this is an actual service yes? ok so the question on this is why? When an overdraft facility is setup for a business account what is the difference in setting one up as oppose to setting one up on a business account? You don't get charged a fee on a personal account. Also why is the Fee they charge for setting up an overdraft for a business account vary in the amount that they take for setting it up? What difference does it make if they setup a £100 overdraft or a £1000 overdraft why should the fee be different? "

 

 

Anyone any thoughts... I've paid plenty of these fees myself but never asked the question..

[andrew1]

Right, I've just had a nice little chat with the Official Receivers Office regarding some of the points I raised earlier.

 

Sole Traders and Self Employed who have been bankrupt: If you claim for bank charges and are repaid, ALL the monies have to go into the pot to pay off creditors.

 

Sole Traders and Self employed who have closed the business but without creditors : You can claim it back for yourself.

 

Limited Companies which have gone into Liquidation without personal guarantees to the bank: All charges claimed should be paid back to the liquidator/ official receiver as they were derived from a time when the business was trading and belong to the creditors. If the company has been dissolved and you claimed them then as the company no longer exists the money belongs to no-one and is what they call ' bona vacantia' which means you have to send it to Gorgon Brown for the benefit of the nation!

 

Limited Companies which have gone into liquidation ( but not dissolved) WITH a personal Guarantee to the bank which the banks have called in to be repaid: - interesting one this, once you have established how much the banks have charged in penalties and you stake your claim from the bank you have to try to put the company back into the position it was had the charges not been made. You can establish whether you would have had an overdraft or not in the first place and effectively reverse the whole process. What they said was that the monies claimed, as they happened to be charged during the life of the business should be paid back into the business, and therefore if the monies were paid back then the overdraft wouldn't be what it was when the company failed, so the bank have to effectively refund the company ( so the excess monies go to the Liquidator AND reimburse you and your guarantee as they wouldn't have called it in had it not been needed.

( I'd also add my personal bit here where I believe the banks would have a big responsibility to cover consequential losses should it be proved the charges were so high it forced the company to close and cause personal loss, but that is a personal opinion and legal advice should be sought on that)

 

Limited Companies that have been dissolved - same 'Bona Vacantia' and Gordon Brown scenario.

 

I didn't tape the call unfortunately but they were very helpful.

[andrew1]

Cheers Andrew.So my business is in liquidation and not dissolved,and the bank are asking me for the sum of money i personally guaranteed,but they have charged me £10000 in unlawfull charges,this would be offset against the money I owe and not go to creditors? I think (hope) this is what you are saying

 

Yes, effectively the charges have inflated the overdraft so the money would be paid to the company but the overdraft they are requesting you clear with your guarantee is reduced. It's a round about way of saying the same thing, but because the charges accrued whilst the company was trading the money is deemed to have to be paid back to the company. Do you follow the jist of that?

 

It's exactly the same as getting all the money yourself in a cheque and giving the difference to the liquidator for creditors but it's the other way around if you see what I mean.8-)

[andrew1]

Hi Andrew could you elaborate further on my circumstances in light of the info above x

 

I'd like to help everyone but I'm no expert, but I'll do my best:

 

You say you have a guarantee with HSBC and just taken out a consolidation loan to repay. Well in that circumstance, the charges you reclaim from the bank will reduce whatever the overdraft was at the time the company failed and therefore the loan you have just taken out would not be as high or needed at all. Whatever they pay back into the liquidator it would be treated as a reduced liability to the bank and therefore the bank will have to reimburse you with whatever the difference is and you could seek compensation for the losses I explained earlier which will no doubt be different for everyone. I haven't had time to read through your links yet but I'll try and get a minute later.

 

Hope that helps.

 

 

Sorry Photoman I'm hijacking your thread here.. HHELP !!!!

[andrew1]

Bona, If this was a Limited company you might find the SAR is of little use. A subject access request under the Data Protection Act might not give you all the statements you require. Is there any chance you still have the bank statements or was the company put into liquidation? The bank will usually charge something like £5 per statement for companies as you are supposed to keep these for 6 yrs. How long ago did the company go under and what happened to the records?

[andrew1]

The liquidator will probably have his eye's on any potential return, unless you can prove that the loans were personally guaranteed. However, from my earlier post regarding the Official receivers conversation their attitude was that it is likely that as the charges occurred whilst the company traded a liquidator would need convincing that the overdraft would not have happened 'unless' the charges had not been made. This is a fine line you need to tread and you need to have a clear head when working your way through the equation. Effectively you will need to turn the clock back week by week to see what effect the charges had at each stage and why you had to take a loan out to cover the charges. I wouldn't want to pour any cold water over anyone's claims, but going by what the OR said, one would need to be careful not to be lead into thinking any potential return wouldn't or shouldn't be for the benefit of the creditors. There should be no reason why they cannot ' lend ' you the statements from these past years and you could photocopy them and return originals back to him, however, they do generally put records into storage once the formalities have been processed. I'd keep stum over why you want them for the time being until you know what the situation is.

[andrew1]

Just an update on our Limited company claim - just got the standard ' bog off' letter referring to terms & conditions etc. Trouble with this was that they actually wrote saying they were having to look into it deeper and requested a further fortnight over our requested fourteen days. Cheeky beggars just came back with the same ole tosh.

 

Now, I have looked at the Letter Before Action in the Templates Library and the one in my link and I think it will need adjusting slightly to reflect a response to their letter and also the fact of ' acting as my fiduciary' thus:

 

"I am frankly shocked that you have operated the account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary".

 

I have heard it said on forum that 'fiduciary' is not used as a noun. it should read something like " .....integrity and expertise in your fiduciary duty."

 

Banks have often replied stating that they are not a ' fiduciary' to us.

 

I'm sure it will have the same effect though and they'll take no notice - LBA and then an N1.... watch this space..

[andrew1]

Hi All :D

 

Just thought I'd let you all know, in todays post (nearly bined it as I thought it was junk mail), NatWest are offering the full amount of my Ltd business claim after I sent the prelim letter to them.

 

I have to admit that I didn't stick to the time scale, it's been 4 weeks since I sent the prelim letter to them, but they have offered to pay up in full !!!!!

 

Donation on the way after I've recieved the chq

 

Barclays here I come !!!

 

Regards

Danler

 

 

Just goes to show..... Well Done my friend, encourage the multitudes!

[andrew1]

Hi 1970, welcome to the forum.

 

There are a number of issues, but on the whole I'd agree with your interpretation and your objectives seem sound based upon what you have detailed. The only point I'd make is that if you needed an overdraft for anything else with the business the liklihood would have been that you would have given the guarantee because the bank wouldn't have given the loan o/d without it. That's just the way the banks work with business. Your feelings are correct as far as I can see.

 

Are you saying it was the bank Factoring division that took the charges not the bank account holding branch or did they charge you on the account before you took the factoring? ( as so often happens).

 

Anyway, whatever, you have a case if the charges were penalties and not for 'services' and if you use the general business format for claiming then you will be successful whichever division of the bank was used. It is a law which covers any kind of contract not just bank charges so just follow the format and good luck.

[andrew1]

We have loan which we took from our limited company when the dca came calling we wrote and told them that Nat west probally owed us more in unlawful charges then they said we owed them and if they caller wrote or rang again I would have them for harresment and to go back to nat west with my reply a few days latter I had a letter saying that they were nolonger dealing and had returned papers to nat west end of story with regard to dca.

 

Well done Bona.

[andrew1]

Not so unique I fear - thanks, thats a very useful track to follow.

[andrew1]

I have just come across and old letter I wrote to my bank which I felt has a significant bearing on bank tactics of old. This letter is dated March 2000 to a Director of Lloyds Bank and it drew as much attention as you'd expect from these money grabbing shower. It's a bit long but I am posting it to demonstrate ( and it's my thread anyway ) what many businesses must go through and are still going through with charges and cash flow highs and lows and what drove so many companies into running up substantial charges. My charges were ? mediocre by comparison to some but gave me considerable business grief and made life extremely difficult for me. It might inspire others to start claiming if they recognise anything in here: I ran an employment Agency which was expanding and therefore in order to pay an increasing temp workforce there was a strain on cashflow so O/D figures do not reflect negative profitablility: Anyway take a read and let it inspire you to claim:

 

Private & Confidential

 

Mr S Argyle

Branch Director

Lloyds TSB

Ground Floor, Threadneedle Street

39 Threadneedle Street

London EC2R 8AU xx March 2000

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Mr Argyle

 

Re: Lloyds Business account xxxxxxx

 

I am writing to you to register my considerable dissatisfaction at the manner in which your staff at 34 Moorgate branch have handled my account in recent weeks and to outline practices which I feel only somebody at your level should be made aware of.

 

My company is a growing specialist recruitment agency. Core and vital components being temporary contractors earning hourly and daily fees from contracts we establish with mainly blue chip clients. I personally have 26 years recruitment experience in Finance. Our web site explains more.

 

On the 15th February I came to see Alan xxxxxx, my manager at the time, to discuss the activity of the account and the overdraft situation which was on a tendancy to be rising. He wished to discuss the possibilities of turning the overdraft into a term loan. This he explained as being the only way forward. He was also suggesting factoring as a means of financing my debtors.

 

Prior to coming, I forwarded a cash flow forecast (copy attached) along with a forecast profit and loss. We had had a quiet run up to the new year and January and February had not picked up particularly well from Christmas but the market develops in cycles in the run up to April year ends and the winter season had been a slow one. Nevertheless, I had almost doubled my sales throughout the year.

 

Mr xxxxxxx did not refer to my figures in any particular way but appeared to have a pre-conceived idea as to what he was prepared to offer. I spent two hours of my time outlining trends and what was happening with the business, and a new service I was introducing which I have spent many months researching and developing.

 

My overdraft was standing at -£16332 on the day in question. The bank held a Directors guarantee on £15,000 and also knew the value of my assets, which are substantial.

 

I had agreed an overdraft facility of £15,000 which had consequently been reduced to £10,000 during the year without consultation but increased again when I complained it was insufficient. You will notice from my cash flow forecast that I did not envisage returning to my £15000 limit until month 4 which, when taking month one as February meant that in order to trade properly I had a requirement at least until May, thereafter the picture improved considerably.

 

I need not have bothered explaining what I was doing or have given the figures, which I might add, take a considerable amount of time for a recruitment consultant to put together, ( I am not an accountant) as he took scant notice of them. He knows that my figures are based upon real figures, not make believe, and that I keep very tight reports on daily movements on my account but it bore little relation to what he had in mind.

 

Mr xxxxxx informed me that the bank was prepared to convert £15,000 into a term loan and give me £1000 as an overdraft facility. I had no options, that was it. You can see that this put me immediately into a negative situation and gave me no room at all to manoeuvre without incurring further penalties. It was a crazy situation to leave me in but I was left with no alternative.

 

The agreement was drawn up on the 15th February, I had a £10 unauthorised borrowing fee on the 16th. On the 1st March a standing order for rent of £625 was returned costing me £27.50, and three cheques returned including a temporary contractors wages who was working at xxxx plc. On 21st February I banked £3950.21. He paid the phone bill cheque but not the temp. Following this the Financial controller of xxx plc telephoned asking what was going on and he was seriously considering the consequences of transferring the contractor to another agency as this person was vital to his team. You can see how swiftly the effect of a bounced cheque has on my workforce and clients. With no wages the contractor immediately tells the client and any other temps working with them. This situation can close me down overnight. I managed to dissuade him but I nearly lost that client and any goodwill I had.

 

I have consistently kept your managers aware that temp wages are sacred but little notice is taken as to what my business is about, the sensitivities surrounding certain payments and income sources. I never asked for an open cheque but when spending my time developing the very clients who create my income I do not expect to have it cut off by an over zealous bank manager or control freak on an ego trip, without conferring with me first.

 

The intention of my meeting with Mr xxxxx was to culture a way forward but this is not what happened at all. What actually happened was that he was setting the scene to create a situation where even more charges could be applied to my account. If he had acted like a true manager and considered the figures I presented he would have immediately realised that I was in a default situation, (as the £10 unauthorised borrowing fee on the 16th confirms). In February alone I was charged £70 unauthorised borrowing fees. Which, having paid fees to rearrange the finances as a way forward is nothing but scandalous. Throughout last year I was charged £1300 in unauthorised borrowing fees plus the premium interest rates on the amounts. This is in addition to all normal banking charges and this is not a prudent manner in which to manage a bank account.

 

In July 1997 the British Bankers Association and the Business community drew up the principles of banks and businesses working together whereby the banks did all in their power to discuss the difficulties of the business and worked with it to ensure the survival of the business. Your staff have reneged on those principles and created a situation for the benefit only of the bank to create additional fees, effectively making yourselves preferential creditors by having access to my bank account and charging fees for every little misdemeanour. If this was to be their attitude then they should have recalled the loans.

 

What I have had done to me ensures a swift failure of the business if it is repeated because no consideration is being taken of my figures, my explanations and information on the activities I am promoting. I explained in great detail the effect on our trading by the millennium fever over the bug, the new year celebrations, the waiting of staff to establish their salary increases and bonuses before deciding to move on to new jobs and the flu epidemic which took me personally out of the workplace for nearly three weeks during December and January. I explained exactly what I was doing to develop the business, I showed detailed articles that I was writing in a monthly magazine to create new business and that I was exhibiting at the Olympia 2000 exhibition. This all fell on deaf ears as Mr xxxx had his own preset agenda.

 

Whilst I respect that the bank requires protection for its lending and I am not advocating that anyone be given a blank cheque, we are not talking about mega numbers here and you do have guarantees, and I have been with the bank for three years. I am not exactly a rouge trader ready to fly off to Singapore with your money and I had banked with Lloyds for ten years previously.

 

On Friday 17th March my account was within the £1000 o/d limit and £13.80 in credit. I had to issue the monthly Inland Revenue cheque of £1375.73 which I expected to arrive on the account Thursday 23rd or Friday 24th based upon the usual time spans from the revenue. I was due a cheque from xxxxxTravel of £5055.30 on Wednesday 22nd so I had no concerns at that time the cheque from the Revenue would not be covered by available funds. I also had one cheque in the system from a temporary contractor due to arrive Tuesday or Wednesday for £355.25. On Wednesday 22nd my opening balance was - £792.04 and the cheque from xxxx Travel had not appeared in the mornings post. I checked with Lloyds customer services to see what had been presented for payment and found that both the cheques mentioned above had been presented. One was a cheque for £355.25 for the same contractor at xxxxplc. In the past Alan xxx(Manager) and I would have spoken and discussed if money was coming in. If it was expected he would hold the cheque over until the following morning and when the funds arrived would process payment of the cheque, if it didn’t he might have had to return it.

 

However, when I knew of the situation with both cheques arriving on Wednesday I faxed at 10 am. to Mr xxxxx that I had been informed the cheque for £5055.30 would be arriving on Thursday not the Wednesday as expected. At 16.10 hours – six hours later a Mr Ken xxxxxx called me to say he had returned both cheques, no warning, no telephone call to ask if money was expected (he already knew there was), nothing! He told me that from that morning, one penny over the £1000 overdraft limit and everything will be returned without reference to me the same day. So what was all this about? Why did it take so long to inform me? why was this heavy handed arrogant attitude applied, as though Alan xxxxxx was too frightened to phone me?

 

When I asked this Ken xxxxxx who he was as I had never heard of him before he said he had taken over my account. No introductions, no invitation to go and discuss the account, no interest in finding out about my business activity, he told me he was not interested in my figures, cashflows, projected P & L’s or activities of my company he was only interested in me keeping to the £1000 rigid figure – he said I was a ‘waste of managements time’ because I spoke to him twice in one day. Who the hell did he think he was? Even if he had returned the Inland Revenue cheque and paid the temp I would have been £147.29 over my £1000 limit – was that too much to bear? However, he was quite content to steal £55.00 from my account in charges.

To be honest, this is nothing but scandalous and it is not surprising that Mr Cruikshank is giving the banks a good kick in the heals.

 

I am a small business working all hours to build a company that will employ staff, make profits and generate growth for myself and my family. The bank, under the principles of the British Bankers Association 1997 should afford me the facilities to operate within the spirit of those principles without maximising every little opportunity to skin my account for fees. I am paying more than enough for the service along with high interest rates and I am surprised that a bank which sponsored the Federation of Small Businesses can show itself as being responsible for such a blatantly obvious and deliberate strategy to gain the maximum fees from a small company without any consideration for the damage it has done or is doing to the very business that the bank is deriving its income.

 

I would like your investigation into this handling of my account and I would like some explanations. I would also like you to look at the account, either increase the overdraft to a workable one or extend the size of the term loan to fit the projections I presented which is nothing short of what ought to have happened during my meeting on 15th February so that I will not be charged these extortionate excess of fees continuously.

 

I am not prepared to be treated like this. I can tell Mr Alan xxxxx was only undertaking what he was led to undertake, that was as clear as a neon light, but Mr Ken xxx, whoever he is, was downright rude and the Lloyds policy he was implementing nothing short of scandalous. I certainly have no intentions of dealing with anyone of such ignorance, manager or not.

 

Believe me, I am not a fool, I have been involved with running businesses since 1980. I have come across a wide range of managers throughout that time along with their banks ‘ initiatives’ to ensure fee generation. The support staff at Lloyds are the only reason to cheer Lloyds bank but management has capped all with this latest [problem] and I trust you will ensure that it is closely investigated and stopped. I have been used to generate maximum fees and charges with no consideration for the good or benefit to the business. As mentioned above your staff have set the scene for maximum charges and I want something done about it as the principles of the 1997 agreement decree.

 

Mr Ken xxxxx suggests I am a waste of managements time, they may be words he lives to regret using as many hours of his management time are going to be taken up with the row I will create unless this is brought to an immediate stop.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

 

Sarah xxxxxxx

Director

 

 

 

so there you go, [causing problems] fees and charges long long ago and it was DELIBERATE - shame on you banks...

[andrew1]

Sorry folks: I've read this wrong... Jeff is the one who wrote the article not Judi - my sincere apologies Judi. I was, without too much guilt I might add because it wasn't clear, of the belief that the poster Judi actually said this so started to read his/her other posts to find out what planet he/she came from. EARTH thank god ....sorry Judi ..... take three of my rep points back !!!

 

 

Needless to say, this bank manager might not feel particularly at home on this site !

[andrew1]

Forget it! oops..