Laura vs Yorkshire Bank, defence entered

[djturner01]

Hi, I'm looking for some moral support for continuing my action as despite everything I've read, YB seem determined not to offer a settlement, and I'm getting twitchy. The claim (I'm completing on behalf of my girlfriend) is small, the initial £225 I requested, plus the £30 court fee and calculated interest reaching a total circa £275. The bank immediatle indicated intention to defend (I used template language in my claim, issued online).

 

Approaching the deadline they have submitted their defence. It opens that they are CB and not the YB as the claim states, the claimant acccount number isn't present, so they can 1, not confirm as a customer, and 2 check details of amount claimed.

 

Flolowing this are a few pages of impressive sounding legal jargon running to numerous points, but the gist appears to be They are basically saying that the agreed contract laid out in their T&C's ws broken, and some statments as why the act/statues I cliam aren't relevant.

 

Should I complete the allocation questionnaire N149, returning with a copy of account number and copies of the statements with the charges highlighted. Is this sufficient? Do I need to send it to CB? Do I need to respond to all numbered defence ponits in the CB defence? Is there any good wording to use on the N149 or to attach with it? Has anyone got to this stage and actually ended up going to court!?

 

Any replies would be greatly appreciated.

[Bigmac versus]

Ok dont panic do you have your POC there and can you put it up so i can see it, and their defence and i will look through it for you.

[djturner01]

Hi, Thanks for the reply. I've been reading further on this great websitwe, and it looks like the POC I took from another site was quite inadequate.

 

The POC I entered

 

Between 16 August 2004 and 19 September

2006 the Defendant applied numerous default

charges to the Claimant's bank account. The

charges constitute an unfair penalty under

the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts

Regulations, which state a term is unfair if

it requires any consumer who fails his

obligation to pay a disproportionately high

sum in compensation. The amount charged does

not reflect the cost of the breach. Under

the law of penalties, the charges are an

unlawful and extravagant penalty, Wilson v

Love 1896, a charge is a penalty if it does

not reflect an item?s true cost. Under the

County Courts Act 1984, the claimant is

entitled to interest (8% per annum) from the

date they were first deprived of the money

to the date of this claim. This amounts to a

total sum of £15.79, continuing to accrue at

the statutory daily rate until judgment or

earlier payment. The Claimant therefore asks

the court to enter judgmentin their favour

for the sum of £225 plus interest, amounting

to a total of £240.79.

Could I enter all details of the correct information I should have quoted giving reference to it in Section G of the allocation questionnaire?

 

After posting I also receied a letter yesterday direct for CB requesting under CPR Part 18 Requeest for further information, that I provide details of account (number and sort code) and particulars of each and every individual charge to which claim relates. I have drafted this from my original letter to YB and plan to send the information also accompanied by copies of the statements with charges highlighted to CB.

 

I'm hoping through not using the form at my clocal court initially and providing fuller (and correct) details of the claim that I've not nmessed things up?

 

Regards,

djturner01

[Bigmac versus]

Hi again have a look here for POC.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/681-4-particulars-claim-n1.html

 

As far as their defence goes as you say no account number and wrong bank, was this on your previous correspondance?

Without your history on this thread it is difficult understanding but if you can stick up their defence on here and i will look in later tonight and advise you, in the meantime fill out the CPR Part 18 request they have asked for.

[djturner01]

Hi, Yes, up to the actual claim I'd provided details of the account in the letters to the Bank direct. I've provided all information to the CB requested under the CPR part 18 in the post today.

 

I'm now left with the allocation questionnaire, and how best to proceed.

 

The full defence copy I received from the court is as follows:

 

1 The correct name of defendant, as set out in the Acknowledgement of service is Clydesdale Bank PLC trading as Yorkshire Bank ("the Bank")

 

2. The missing account details

 

3. At all times the relatonship between the Claimant and the Bank was govererned by the Bank's standard terms and conditions for current account customers......goes on to list them all

 

4.At all times the claimant han an agreed overdraft in relation to their account

 

(I find this one odd as they state they don't know what the account is due to lack of detail in claim)

 

5. At all time Bank tarrifs of charge for current account customers set out the charges from time to time applicable pursuant to its standard terms in conditions in resepect of....goes on to list them

 

6. The bank charged the claimant with charges of the kind specified in 5

 

7. It is denied the charges were a disproportionate penalty and unenforcebale as alleged int he particulars of the claim. They were a fee for the service provided by the Bank to the claimant in extending facilities to him (it is actually a 'her'), all envisaged by the agreement in place between the Bank and claimant. Further and in any event, the Charges were a genuine pre-estimate of cost resulting from the Customers failure to keep within the agreed overdraft limit on the account.

 

8. It is further dnied that by virtue of section 15 of the supply of goods and services act 1982 the amount of the Charges falls to be determined by reference to what is reasonable as the consideration for the service is determined by the contract. In the premises section 15 of the Act has no application in these proceedings.

 

9. It is further denied that the terms and conditons requiring the claimant to pay the charges were unfair terms withinthe meaning of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations 1999, S.I. 1999 No 2083 ("the Regulation"). paragraph 1 (e) of the Schedule 2 of the regulations provides that a terms requring any customer who fails to fulfil his obligation to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation may be regarded as unfair. The Charges are not a compensation, but rather a fee for the service provided by the Bank in extending facilities to the claimant, all as envisaged by the agreement in place between the Bank and the Claimant. Further without prejudice to the generality of the foregoing

 

1) the terms and conditions were fair having regard to the following matters...goes on to give the usual which I summarise as

 

a) the cost to the Bank of maintining admin for anauthorised OD's/unpaids etc

b) Increase risk of loss to Bank from such transactions and costs of recovering

c) Need to operate standard procedures to avoid substantial costs of individual assessment in relation to each particular case

 

2) the terms and conditions complied with all relevant Banking Code

 

10. In the premises, the claimant is not entitled to the relief sought or to any relief.

 

Any help appreciated.

 

Regards,

djturner01

[Bigmac versus]

CPR PART 18 covers 1 & 2, they are basically saying that they havent charged you any penalties, they are indeed fees for services, what service did you receive when they charged you £30 odd quid for going over your overdraft, they are clutching at straws, have a look here for help with your AQ.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/11644-allocation-questionnaires-guide-completion.html

[djturner01]

That is great news, I was hoping that all the points they entered were inline with the usual 'argument' that it is a fee for service, thank you for your time. I'll return the allocation questionaire, and hopefully they will settle without me neeing to go to court :o/ I look forward to posting a succesfully outcome and recording the amount won.

 

Regards,

Djturner01

[Bigmac versus]

Keep us informed, good luck.