Seahorse v Cabot

[andrew1]

Seahorse, I had a Citifinancial Credit Card £900 on it when it was sold to Kingshill No1 Ltd (Cabot) . I SAR'd Citi and found over £1000 in charges so claimed them back from Citi. To date ( & it ain't over yet ) Citi wrote and told me they had deducted the difference between £25 charged and the £12 so called FSA recommended charge and refunded me £500 - Well, not me actually - they sent it to Cabot because they now 'own' the debt.

 

I am about to write to Citi requesting the full charges back and writing to Cabot asking them for various denominations I made to them at the time following their harrassing phone calls. I also had a default registered and not removed by Citi and Kingshill No1 Ltd registering a default the day they bought the debt.

 

There will be a claim for non default removal and additional costs of finance from Citi and a claim on Cabot for registering a default without proper paperwork or knowledge that the debt was due because they never responded to my CCa request.

[andrew1]

sorry to interupt here LFI, my situation with Citicards is exactly that, £920 debt sold to Cabot for what £100? max - I claimed £1000 charges back from Citi & got almost £500 but it was paid to Cabot. Thats £400 profit to Cabot... something wrong there.

[andrew1]

I wrote to the Company Secretary of Kingshill No1 Ltd /aka Cabot Financial UK Ltd and was replied to on Cabot Financial (Europe)Ltd headed paper.

[andrew1]

This is unreal...Cabot (uk) does exist, but doesn't so to speak...you all know what I mean..So you send Cabot Europe a CCA, they say it's not up to them to comply to it cos they don't ownt he debt..They don't (as they should) pass on the CCA and when you CCA CAB UK, it's getting delivered to CAB Europe anyway! PML,, how can they get away with this?... Oh Seahorse..I have an idea re being worried a letter to CAB UK not being signed for,,why not write on envelope 'PAYMENT ENCLOSED' They'll sign for it then!!...and besides, you're not lying. There's a payment for £1 inside for the CCA ..da dahhh

 

They'll pay your £1 into their account as a payment against the debt .. that's what they did with mine.... they thought I'd made a payment and processed it as such....."don't recall receiving your letter with the payment you made" - Oh no? so where did you get the account number from then? .. that's unreal. Sarah

[andrew1]

Ah, but they (Europe) DO try to get a copy of the agreement, although they are possibly quite right in that THEY don't have to. Well, they (Europe) don't own the account now, do they? It's (UK) who owns it, and by using (Europe) as a vehicle for their business, I believe they hope to escape asny assertion that they have not complied with CCAs, SARs etc. THIS is the whole reason why I have changed the rules for them, and will ONLY correspond with (UK). If they ignore my requests, then they ARE in default/breach or whatever. I may receive replies from (Europe), or on (Europe) headed paper, but that's just them trying to be twisty again as far as I'm concerned. I want answers from (UK) as is my right.

 

Are you reading this WW????? Good. Then you know how serious I am. I will NOT be misinformed/lied to/be led up the garden path. (Delete whichever does not apply).

 

I'm beginning to feel a bit of deja vu here Seahorse, there were two quite innocent characters who came to this forum having a read around and getting a feel for what was going on, never touched or contemplated anything like we have going on here on this thread and others relating to our 'Ken-friends' - who were they? - tbern and Debt Mountain - and you seem to be enjoying what we are all enjoying - the challenge and proving that we can take them on. Cabot are just the sort of company with all the shenanigans they used to get up to who are plumb right for pulling apart and they have got one hell of a group of people on here doing just that... well done.. keep it up.

[andrew1]

 

Feel free to poo poo my idea now guys !!!!!

 

darling

 

PS Please add me to the PM list as well.

 

Nobody will ever poo poo your ideas darling, everyones contribution in whatever format is most welcome and valuable to our cause

[andrew1]

This is interesting because my Citi 'debt' ( all charges!) was sold to Cabot (KHill) and when I claimed over £1k back in charges from Citi they paid my charges less what they believed was the OFT price of £12 back to Cabot £500 !

 

I still haven't chased Citi for it all back but it is interesting this guy took Citi to court and where this puts Cabots ' buying the rights and not the duties' issue.

 

I'll look at this deeper and we'll have to check this out as I want ALL my charges back and what I have paid Cabot to date.

[andrew1]

... but they (Cabot) bought my debt for about £100, I've already paid them about £90 in response to their harrassment - Credit Card refunded £500 of my £1000 + unlawful charges to Cabot so Cabot have made a tidy £410 profit... work that one out for yourself

[andrew1]

Hi andrew,

 

Do you really think the CC company really paid Cabot £500!

 

 

Jeff.

 

I do, because the figure on my credit file reduced by £500.

[andrew1]

Yes, but the figure on my file remains the same as when BC sold my account to Cabot. Doesn't mean that Cabot paid anything like that amount for it, and I guess the principal is the same.

 

Sorry Seahorse, I meant that my credit file reduced by the amount that Citi paid Cabot out of my charges, not by what Cabot paid Citi to buy my debt.

[andrew1]

Thanks Rhia.. off you trot !

[andrew1]

Our Ref: AIH/XXXXXXXX/PC

>

> Dear Mr Seahorse

>

> Thank you for your email, which we received on 01 March 2007.

>

> Further to our recent correspondence, I have been contacted by Kings Hill (No 1) Ltd. How could Kingshill No1 Ltd be contacted in March 2207 - a)the Name Kingshill No1 Ltd is Dormant b) Who have they contacted ? No one from "Kingshill" EVER replied to any of the account holders who wrote to them They have confirmed that the details we hold are accurate and have requested that we retain the information on our database. Unfortunately I am unable to amend this information without the authorisation of the company in question. This just confirms that Creditexpert are not treating the data as YOURS, they are only prepared to change it with the permission of their paymasters. If you have any further queries or wish to discuss this further, may I suggest you contact the company concerned direct at the following address:

>

> Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd: PO Box 241, West Malling, ME19 4NA Why should anyone write to another company altogether? and are Creditexpert (Like that word 'expert'!) not doubly confirming that data is being passed on illegally by them to a third party?

>

> The 'Notice of Dispute' will remain on your report for 28 days it will then be removed, unless I receive further notification from you:

>

> "THE ACCURACY OF THIS DATA HAS BEEN DISPUTED BY THE INDIVIDUAL CONCERNED AND WE HAVE NOW CONTACTED THE SUBSCRIBER. CARE SHOULD THEREFORE BE TAKEN WHEN USING THIS ITEM OF DATA TO ASSESS THE CREDITWORTHINESS OF THE INDIVIDUAL CONCERNED".

>

> You may be aware that you are able to add a short explanatory statement, called a 'Notice of Correction', to your credit report. If you wish to add such a statement, anyone searching your details in the future, as well as companies who have searched the report in the past six months, will see a copy of it and it may have an effect on any future applications you make.

>

> If you would like to add a Notice of Correction to your file, please provide the exact wording you wish to use. Please bear in mind that we are unable to add a statement of more than 200 words or one we think is defamatory, frivolous, scandalous or unsuitable for publication for some other reason.

>

> Kind regards

>

>

>

> Mr Alan I Hirst (AIH)

> Consumer Services Officer

> CreditExpert

 

 

Me thinks Rhia, Bankfodder and a whole lot more of us are spinning these companies up in their own webs and we should get on as BF said, with nailing them.

[andrew1]

Just thought you'd like to see what sort of things the Debt Buyers outfit get up to: Article in this Months edition of Credit Today Magazine( thanks CT):

News

 

Quote:

 

"Debt buyers to access ‘white data’ - 23/03/2007

 

Debt buyers are a step away from gaining access to ‘white data’ or credit reference data on debt portfolios.

 

SCOR, the steering committee on reciprocity, has sent the new wording of the reciprocity principles to industry trade associations for ratification. If the principles are signed off, credit reference providers will be able to give their debt buyer clients access to full data on individual debtors. Previously they would only have had access to default data because that’s all they could provide themselves.

 

Roger Lucas, of the Debt Buyers and Sellers Group, said: "When we take assignment of debts we stand in the place of the original creditor so it’s only right we should have the same obligations and rights."

 

Meanwhile, Internet bank Egg has joined the Debt Buyers and Sellers Group. Egg head of debt sale Chris Hague said the group is now building more of a balance between sellers and buyers. "The industry is still maturing in certain respects and having a lobby group like that is very helpful as a single point of contact."

 

 

Don't you just love what Roger Lucas had to say !

[andrew1]

SCOR - Steering Committee on Recipriocity:

 

Steering Committee on Reciprocity (SCOR)

[andrew1]

He'd have to ask his boss at the Debt Buyers club I should Imagine !

[andrew1]

Actually, the link to the site on Reciprocity is worth taking a look at above. take note on the Questions and Answers, I think there's more in there that would help our cause and others too. If you have ten minutes I'd have a scroll through what this is all about. Its a club for the Finance Industry to get more info and nobody from the consumers side are represented. Maybe CAG could apply! Take a read.

[andrew1]

Here is the link

Credit Today online

 

Hey you! trying to steal the march on me eh? you vanish off the scene for weeks and then come back and pinch my post ! I did this - 'spose you're trying to pinch the rep points - Welcome back tbern Interesting though isn't it?

 

I think this is worth reading between the lines of the actual SCOR webpage because they go into detail over the principle of the so called ' reciprocity' angle. It certainly is a boys club for the lending industry and I can't see what possible interest there is for the consumers as they have no voice at all. Whilst they may be pushing for this white data - who the heck is saying "No you can't have it"? From reviewing this page briefly I can't see many. What I did see made me think they are beginning to shoot themselves extremely close to their toes. As you've had quite an in depth dig into some of these areas I'd be interested in your own views on this.

[andrew1]

Just remember, The Debt Buyers Association is a self made club by the industry. You can only read what they do as their own propaganda - and the same goes for this SCOR lot - they are club of the banks and money lenders. What they say carries little by way of law.

[andrew1]

Me notices a "Discussion Forum" in there - might be useful for asking questions about some of our issues?? we could put together a question or two and ask about the "rights & not the duties" stuff ?? See what hits the fans?? and the Property Law stuff that we've been told?

 

Just a thought !!! Needs to be done "tactfully" so we get answers without ruffling feathers or naming companies involved etc..? Tbern?? Andrew??

 

Credit Today are a magazine for the credit Industry. There is a forum which subscribers to the mag can go onto but you have to have paid up on subscription.

[andrew1]

Mmm!! OK it was just a thought

 

...and a nice one it was too ! ;-)

[andrew1]

I have just read your thread from begining to end. What a saga. It seems to me from reading numerous threads that everyone is getting into huge amounts of correspondence with these companies when it is much easier to make the company do the work.

 

Actually, make them active runners ( where dyou get a name like that ? ) you are probably right - we would welcome your suggestions, what have you got in mind exactly - it's always good to have fresh idea's we all seem to be getting a little stale on here.. fire away....join the debate...?

[andrew1]

....and seahorse get posting will you ... you are on 666 at the minute and making me nervous ! :D

[andrew1]

Firstly why bother sending £1 for CCA. If the company has a genuine legal case then they would bend over backwards to help you believe they are honest.

 

The bits about doorstep collectors and trespass is good. The same can be adapted to telephone. Insist you will only deal with written communication.

 

Do not tell them which laws you can prosecute under or which authorities you can report them to. Simply tell them that you know as well as them where they can be in breach of the law and subject to any action/reporting you chose. That way they cannot guess what you actually know (there may be other laws they are aware of but obviously they cannot guess if you know them too) Basically a little information stops them making judgments on your abilty against a legal eagle of theirs.

 

Insist that they prove the debt as they would be required to do so in court and that it is in fact legally enforceable. Make it clear the burden of proof is theirs and theirs alone - you will not assist giving them info or pay towards the cost of supplying it as it should already be in their possession.

 

Finally make it clear that until they have provided sufficient qualilty evidence you will not respond to their letters

 

PS Don't forget to add "I do not acknowledge any debt to your company"

 

Do you really feel this is a better approach? Many have been, as you say digging themselves deep in correspondence, you appear to feel that is wasting time a little, I'm all for less paperwork and sometimes we can't see the wood for the trees. These companies have come back with many inconsistancies. Have you any particular experience that has worked for you ?

[andrew1]

So what Act are you referring to? or are you saying we don't need an Act?

Also you mention that Aktiv are trying to find you ( hope they fail ) but have you had the same with Cabot by any chance and if so do you see similarities?

 

To be honest, running or trying not to be found seems incongruous for someone who seems to have a handle on things, would it be inappropriate for you to share some of your experience here and do you have a thread we can follow? So many people like you who have suffered keep their experiences to themselves until they feel they are amongst friends here and share.. what have you gone through if you don't mind me asking .perhaps we can all learn a bit too...

[andrew1]

BTW, nice to see that you still make very valid points elsewhere in the post- despite the fact you've been quiet, what you post is still worth reading

 

don't get carried away pmhcfc, seahorse is difficult enough to keep under control as it is anyway, it's good to have people coming on to challenge what we are doing because it's good to get others perspective on things. How do we know what Cabot are thinking or any of the others like Aktiv or Capquest?

 

I hope our new friend feels welcome and happy to share his/her thoughts with us.. from me at least - welcome aboard.