Hermes Lost Returns - Sportsshoes.com @sportsshoes_com

[rjstanley]

A Hermes courier collected 4 return parcels for 2 retailers Amazon and @sportsshoes_com from my address. The next morning (less than 24 hours later) I had a call from one of the retailers saying someone had contacted them as they'd found discarded packaging from some of the parcels on their driveway, a few minutes drive from my house.  Both the retailer and I contacted Hermes immediately to inform them of this. The response was to wait for the 14 days to see if they arrived. Despite my requests they did not update me on their investigation into the incident.

 

None of the four packages arrived at the destinations. Two were refunded to me by the retailer. The other two to a value of over £450 were not refunded and Hermes say they will pay me £50 for each as I didn't take out insurance cover.

 

In response I have explained to Hermes why I did not take out insurance cover as per your helpful advice. It is also the case that on booking the return through the retailer site, despite the warning re level of cover there was no link to be able to buy the additional insurance.  I searched the website at the time to see the cost and couldn't find it. I also asked Hermes for a copy of their "extensive investigation" and a crime reference number in the case of what appears to be theft of the parcels from the courier shortly after collection. 

 

In this situation where there is strong indication of negligence or mishap within hours of the items being in the courier's possession, I am prepared to take this as far as I can to get my money back. My last communication with Hermes was about a week ago.

 

1. If I accept the £50 do I invalidate my claim for the rest of the value of the goods?

2. If I don't receive anything back from them soon, do I write again and give them a deadline and then proceed to county court claim or should I persist with their customer support/returns support in setting out my argument for full refund?

3. Is there any value in making my own police report of the possible theft of these items?

4. Any other advice or help gratefully received!

 

Many thanks!

[rjstanley]

Hi thank you,

 

The retailer who refunded me was Amazon - I can see on my orders that the returns are 'in transit' but they issued the refund as soon as the courier collected which was 10 September. The other retailer is Sportsshoes.com. They contacted me about the discarded packaging. I have asked them if they have leverage on Hermes or would consider refunding me in the spirit of good customer service but they say it's between me and Hermes. 

[rjstanley]

I was returning shoes that were not suitable, I'd ordered a number to make a choice. I usually use Royal Mail to return items to Amazon, but as Sportsshoes.com use Hermes and the four parcels of shoes were bulky for some reason I now whole heartedly regret   I decided to book a courier collection. Sportsshoes.com do not offer free returns but promote Hermes who they have 'teamed up with' to provide easy low cost returns....

[rjstanley]

Ok thank you,  I've read through some of the threads and looked at the Consumer Rights Act. I think that as my parcels only travelled a few miles from the collection address before being at best damaged at worst nicked there is a strong case to say Hermes have not performed their service with reasonable care and skill (Part 1 Section 49)  Therefore the contract terms do not exclude their liability arising from this. And I get the argument about the insistence on insurance cover being an unfair term in limiting my legal rights in the event of 'total or partial non-performance or inadequate performance by the trader of any of the contractual obligations'  (Part 2 Section 62 and Schedule 2) if I've got that right?

 

So I'm keen to pursue this. The last communication I had from Hermes was on 2 Nov:

We are pleased to confirm that we have today accepted your claim for £105.88 which is maximum compensation of £50 each parcel. 

• compensation : 2 * £50.00

• Hermes postage: 2* £2.94

 

My email reply on 3 Nov is attached as a word doc. I have not sent them my bank details as yet and I have not had a response from them.

 

Please advise on best next steps

Many thanks

 

 

031120 Reply to Hermes .docx

[rjstanley]

I returned 4 pairs of shoes from one order in one parcel, and 3 pairs of shoes from another order in the second parcel. So they each have a separate parcel number for which I received one collection receipt. 

[rjstanley]

I've just checked the emails from Sportsshoes.com - the discarded packaging was from one order, so the evidence would not be so strong in support of negligence in relation to the other order, but yes I see your point about putting in two separate claims for £230 each

 

I think on the phone the call handler told me packaging had been found from one of the amazon orders too but I dont have this written down. I never pursued the 2 lost amazon parcels because I received the refunds. I dont know if Amazon or Hermes cover these losses.

[rjstanley]

I have notes from a phone call and two emails from Sportsshoes.com saying that someone had found empty packaging relating to the order on their driveway. The call handler did not record their address, but said at the time she'd looked it up on google maps and it was a few minutes drive from my address from where the parcels were collected. 

This is from her email...

On the 11th (september) a lady telephoned and spoke to myself to inform us some sports shoes packaging was was found on her driveway. This was found on the morning of the 11th approximately 10 am. The packaging was empty but did have information regarding our order number - XXX. The hermes driver number - XXX and the receipt number - XXX
The lady who had found the packaging lives within I would say a 5-10 minute drive from your address.

Edited November 11, 2020 by rjstanley

[rjstanley]

Sorry I'm not sure what you mean .. I know the order number of the packaging and which parcel number it relates to

 

[rjstanley]

yep

 

[rjstanley]

Many thanks, I see the value of this, hmm weighing up the pros and cons, just wondering if this approach of using the threat of another claim as leverage to encourage them to settle both been used successfully before? Have successful claims against Hermes got to County court in the past or are they invariably settled at the mediation stage?

[rjstanley]

Thank you I've been giving this some thought. 

 

Would there be any merit in putting in the two claims at the same time, so they have to respond to each individually but I wouldn't be seen as trying to hoodwink them but pulling another claim out the bag at the 11th hour?  I guess though I would incur double the cost in the first place and the argument would be to save both sides additional costs?? I'm not exactly clear what the next stage is, I've read about letters of claim and deadlock...

 

Also if I go through with one claim which will presumably take several weeks, is there any time limit on raising the second claim?

 

Thanks again

 

 

[rjstanley]

Thank you that all makes sense. Yes I want my money back but I also want to hold Hermes to account and definitely prepared to go to county court if that's what it takes. 

[rjstanley]

Yes I agree, I'll go with the claims separately the 'lost packing' one first.

[rjstanley]

Thank you. I'm thinking write as an email but send as recorded delivery letter as well? Does it need to be addressed to the chief exec?

[rjstanley]

Is the following OK? Should I also, or separately, say I'm not accepting their offer of the £50. Do I not need to include anything about them failing their duty under the Act to have care and skill ...

Quote

Letter of Claim – Reference number xxxxx

 

On 10 September 2020 I used your service to return a parcel of three pairs of shoes to Sportsshoes.com retailer in West Yorkshire under your reference number xxxxx (collection receipt xxxx).

As you already know, the item was not delivered to the intended recipient. In fact, it was reported to you on 11 September 2020 that discarded packaging from this parcel was discovered a few miles from the collection address. Clearly the item was stolen whilst in your care.

The value of the shoes was £229.47

If I do not receive reimbursement in full of the sum within 14 days then I shall sue you in the County Court and without any further notice.

Yours faithfully

 

 

[rjstanley]

Oh I've also go the driver no. I guess I could add in

 

[rjstanley]

yes ok thanks, not sure 'Clearly' is accurate, I know it's highly likely but I dont think the evidence per se is sufficient there are other explanations however vacuous. I'd prefer to say theft is indicated 

[rjstanley]

Hi there, I sent the letter of claim and there's a week til the 14 days are up. I've registered on MCOL and drafted the particulars of claim, following the style used in other similar cases. It's probably too wordy for you but let me know what you think!

 

The claimant used the defendant courier company to return a parcel to an online retailer in the UK, Tracking Number xxxxxxxxx. Less than 24 hours after courier collection, discarded packaging from the parcel was discovered a few miles from the collection address. This clearly shows the courier service did not use reasonable care and skill and is in breach of contract. The defendant company admits they lost the parcel but refuses to refund the full value of the parcel contents, which was £229.47. The delivery fee was £2.94. The claimant claims full reimbursement of £232.41.

 

Many thanks

[rjstanley]

Excellent thanks

 

[rjstanley]

County court claim submitted today

[rjstanley]

Hi there and happy new year..

 

Hermes have now submitted a defence and I’ve just received the Directions Questionnaire.

Brief reminder of the situation …

·       I returned 2 parcels to Sportshoes, using Hermes courier collection, each about £230.

·       The next day discarded packaging was found a few miles from my address

·       I contacted Hermes immediately

·       Parcels never arrived at destination and Hermes agreed to pay me max compensation £50 each

·       You suggested putting in county court claim for one parcel to start with (as identified by discarded packaging)

 

My particulars of claim…

The claimant used the defendant courier company to send a parcel to an address in Shipley, West Yorkshire, tracking number xxx The parcel was collected by the defendant but never arrived at its destination and discarded packaging was discovered a few miles from the collection address. This clearly shows the defendant lost the parcel through negligence and/or criminality of an employee and they are in breach of contract. The parcel contained shoes valued at £229.47, plus delivery fee of £2.94. The defendant has refused to reimburse the claimant

 

The defence is ‘interesting’…

(a)  they dispute the full amount, even though they have already admitted liability and offered me the compensation they say I am owed (£50)

(b)  they say I did not have a contract with them but with the retailer, even though the link on Sportshoes website goes to MyHermes.uk, I paid Hermes the delivery fee, and accepted their terms and conditions which includes the ‘contract’

So I’m about to complete the directions questionnaire.

 

I will agree to go to mediation, is there anything else I need to do/bear in mind at the moment? Many thanks!

 

Hermes Defence.pdf

[rjstanley]

Thanks, yes they manage to position themselves as being a mere bystander in carrying out their own business 

[rjstanley]

Mediation set for 3 Feb. 

 

I will of course spend some time before then pulling together my evidence and arguments.

 

Their defence was odd (I thought) in that they defended the whole amount and said I didn't have a contract with them, even though they'd already accepted liability and offered me compensation. So just wondering whether the various issues come into play or whether mediation is really just agreeing deal or no deal.

 

Also need your advice on when and how to introduce my '2nd potential claim chip' ... they lost another parcel worth approx the same amount at the same time.

 

Thanks in advance

[rjstanley]

Mediation was successful and painless. The mediator spent time getting to understand the situation which I found reassuring. Hermes agreed to refund me the value of the parcel plus postage. 

 

At the end I raised the issue of the second parcel; the person the mediator was speaking with was only authorised to deal with court claims. Once the settlement agreement comes through I will contact Hermes and request they settle the second parcel without the costs etc of going through a court claim.

 

I'd decided not to ask them for my court costs (£25) as a gesture of my willingness to negotiate but that was my choice.

 

Thanks for all your help with this, will update as and when things progress.