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    • Hi just typed all defence clicked next and it's deleted all. Any help
    • I forgot to say, there is one last possibility and that is that they will receive your letter of rejection and simply fold, accept the rejection and refund you. Don't wait too long for this. Seven days maximum – but in that seven days you could send your letter of claim anyway and when that you don't hear from them or when they start mucking around at least you are seven days closer to beginning the legal action – and they will know it (which is the important thing).
    • Okay that is excellent that you have an email between the garage and the warranty company confirming that there is a serious problem with the gearbox. That is very powerful evidence. I think the situation is this: you have sent them a letter of rejection but the reputation of big motoring world is that they won't take a lot of notice and they will try to prevaricate and maybe even blame you. Clearly you don't want the car any more and anyway it sounds as if the cost of repairs is going to be enormous. You don't know if the warranty company is going to step up to the mark but the whole thing is going to take a long time and I understand that you have lost confidence in big motoring world because of this event and also their reputation which you are now discovering on Facebook and on this forum and no doubt elsewhere. On the basis that you don't want the car any more and you want your money back, you need to hurry things along. I think the first thing is that you need to decide if you are prepared to bring a claim in the County Court. Even without the warranty money, the claim is worth more than £10,000. For actions less than £10,000, you bring a "small claim" and this means that even if you lose the case you won't be liable for the other side's costs. If you win the case then not only will you get your money plus interest but also you will recover all of the costs of the action. For actions more than £10,000, you go to something called the "fast track" and in the event that you lose the case, then you could be liable to reimburse the winner some of the costs. This means that in addition to not recovering your own money, you would lose your own court fees and also you would have to to bear the costs of the other side probably something less than £5000 – but as a rough guess. If you bring your court claim then your chances of success are almost 100%. Frankly if you brought a court claim then I can imagine that big motoring world will put their hands up and pay you out rather than face go to court and losing and getting a judgement against them. However, it you need to consider that this is a risk factor – although my view it is a negligible risk factor. If you did bring a court case, it wouldn't be instant. If they put their hands up then it would probably happen very quickly. If they didn't put their hands up then you could take anything up to a year for the matter to be resolved and during that time you would be without your car and without your money and in the middle of litigation. I'm explaining this to you say that you understand how it works. Bring a court case would be really the last resort when everything else has failed. However, I'm quite certain that you would win and it would be stupid of big motoring world to try to resist. In order to bring a court case you would have to send a letter of claim giving them 14 days to accept rejection and organise the refund otherwise you would begin the claim. Don't imagine that you could bluff this. If you did send a letter of claim then you would have to go through with it otherwise you lose all credibility and you might as well pack up and go home. So with this in mind, here are possible courses of action you could take. You can simply wait and see what their reaction to your letter of rejection will be. However they may not reply or else they may find some other reason to delay and of course during that time you will be without your car and without your money blah blah blah, not knowing if big motoring world were going eventually to start acting sensibly and respectfully towards you. The second thing you can do – and I think this has been suggested on Facebook – is that you can go along there and simply make yourself present and talk to other customers and generally speaking make a nuisance of yourself and embarrass them to the point where you would be explaining to other potential customers to be careful, to look on Facebook, and to do some careful research before they put their business to big motoring world. This has a reasonable chance of success although you would have to be careful. You should go accompanied by a friend and there should be no anger, no arguments, nothing that could be considered as being overly aggressive so that big motoring world would have no justification in kicking you out or even worse, calling the police. If you did this, then I would suggest that you record everything on the telephone carried in a pocket. A fully charged battery will probably keep a voice recorder and a telephone going for more than 20 hours or 30 hours. The other person can video any incidents so that everything is clear and you can inform big motoring world then it will be going up on the Internet. If you did this, my favourite option would be to issue the letter of claim giving them 14 days, and then going along to big motoring world with a copy of your letter of rejection and a copy of the exchange between the mechanic and the warranty company and a copy of your letter of claim – all settled together – and probably about 20 or 30 copies in all and I would start handing them out to any customers who came in. Big motoring world will soon get the picture and they will either move your the premises in which case you stand outside and carry on doing it or they will finally give in. Of course there is a chance that they won't give in and they will simply call your bluff – but in that case I think you have no choice other than to follow through with your 14 day threat in the letter of claim and to begin the legal action. At the same time you should be putting up reviews on Google and also trust pilot explaining exactly what has happened and also explaining that the mechanic has confirmed to the warranty company that there is the serious problem, that you have asserted the right to reject and that this is been ignored by big motoring world and that you have now sent a letter of claim and that you will be starting a legal action in 14 days. Once again, don't bluff about the legal action. If you threaten it – then you must mean it – and on day 15 you click of the claim. You don't need a solicitor for any of this. It's all fairly straightforward and of course we will help you all the way that it the decision is yours to make and I think you need to make it fairly quickly. I think the cost of starting an action for about £13,000 is 5% and then also if it goes to trial which I would say is almost impossible – there would be an additional fee. You would claim interest at 8%. A judge might award a lower figure but frankly if you can show that big motoring world is attempting to ride roughshod over your very clear statutory consumer rights, I can imagine that the judge will want to show displeasure by awarding the full 8% which is a pretty good rate – even though it's not compensation for the hassle and the distress you are going through. If you decide to get solicitor, then if you win the case, because it is over £10,000 you will recover some of your costs but you won't recover all of them. If the solicitor begins by having exchanges of letters then I doubt whether you will be up to recover the cost of those and you could easily find that you're chalking up 500 quid or even a thousand simply on initial exchanges of correspondence. Also you need to bear in mind that if after having exchanges with a solicitor, big motoring world cave in – then you definitely won't get those costs back because you won't have gone to court and therefore a judge will not have made the order for payment of those costs. I suggest very strongly that you avoid paying any money for a solicitor and that you do it yourself. It's not a big deal – although you will have to you react quickly to the help we offer on this forum. Also, an additional benefit is that you will learn a lot and you will gain confidence and eventually you will feel good about suing anybody else who gets in your way. Nothing not to like! If you do decide to instruct a solicitor then you must take control of the solicitor. Most of them prefer to sit in an office writing letters on the clock. If you do decide to instruct a solicitor then you must instruct the solicitor very firmly that they should send one letter of complaint giving seven days. A second letter – a letter of claim giving 14 days and that they must then begin the action. If you don't do this. If you don't take control then it will simply cost you money, you will be without your car even longer and of course without your money. The whole thing is a nightmare. I think I've laid out the options but please do ask questions. I hope you can see that this is the kind of advice that you won't be getting on Facebook. Nothing against Facebook. It's good as a meeting place and to make people realise that they aren't on their own – but after that the advice given is weak and confusing.  
    • What makes you say that?  I have no idea how I would go about that or why they would even entertain discussions now that they've won the Court case
    • Our main Equity Partner, Cabot Square Capital invests 
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
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    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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EON Utility Warrant, Portsmouth Magistrates Court, Deceptive Practices


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I have a corporate flat.  EON obtained a utility warrant by fraudulent means. They lied to the Portsmouth Magistrates Court.

 

 

The landlord was several months in arrears when I moved in.

 

10 months after I moved in, on 25 April 2019, EON sent me a Human Rights letter.  It stated they would go to Magistrates Court to ask for a utility warrant on 24 May 2019.  The nominated court was in Portsmouth, eventhough the flat is in London. 

 

I called EON on four occasions that day to say that I had no problem paying the bill. It was very hard getting through to someone who wasn't rude or accusatory.  The issue is that the bills they sent had the incorrect billing information.  I had told EON the correct information for 10 months, but they ignored me.

 

Collections agreed to update the billing information. I agreed to pay the outstanding amount on the letter they had sent me, approximately £800.  Payment posted to EON on 3 May 2019.

 

EON collections told me there would be no further court action.

 

I never heard anything from EON. I expected to get an update. 

 

On Friday 31 May 2019, someone knocked on my door, demanding entry. He said he had a warrant from the Court. I told him that I paid the bill. He said that he was going to return with a locksmith and change my meter. 

 

I called Portsmouth Magistrates Court. They said they could not help me unless I told them the date EON was granted the utility warrant. I told them I did not know for certain as they never told me anything.  Portsmouth checked the system and could not see a warrant issued for the date on the letter, 24 May 2019.  They told me to contact EON or the Ombudsman.

 

A few hours later, after I had stepped out, he returned and attempted to change the meter.  I do not know what he did exactly.

 

I then called Citizen's Advice Bureau. They have a specialist team for Energy complaints. The CAB specialist called EON who told her that unless I paid a further £400, that the guy would return for a third time that day and attempt to change the meter or cut off the electricity.  

 

I told the specialist that I disputed the extra charges, and wanted to see a breakdown of how they reached that figure.  The CAB specialist said that the EON contact told her all of the charges were only for electricity, an no call outs. She said that EON should have notified me of their plan to go to court anyway. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Please have a look at the thread which I have posted above. You will see the advice that I've given there about making sure that you attend court to object to any warrant. I'm afraid it's too late for you but you see what happens if you don't. You think you are having reasonable conversations with a reasonable company which listens to you and considers what you say – but I'm afraid that you are simply talking to a machine which has no interest in you.

I would advise you to pay the disputed some immediately and then go about claiming it back. If you don't then the meter may well be changed and getting it changed back will be a terrible uphill task – almost impossible.

I know that it's humiliating and you will feel indignant because you will believe that you are in the right – and you probably are – but believe me this energy company does not care. Mind you nought of the others.

Pay the disputed some to avoid further problem and then go about getting it back. We will help you.

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Hi BankFodder,

 

I was never told of the court date. I would have requested the hearing be moved to London.

 

They wrote the Human Rights letter, took my money and then went to court anyway without notifying me. 

 

Quote

 

Per the Magistrates Court on 6 June 2019:

 

Further to your recent email I can advise that there is no power for the court to immediately revoke any previous decision made. The court may be able to consider reviewing the issue of a the warrant at a further court hearing at which EON should attend or at least be notified and you should also attend or set out, in writing, full details of your grounds for seeking to have the order reviewed.

 

The court would need to have information clarifying

 

  1. The nature of your dispute with EON
  2. Why you say the Codes of Practice were not complied with
  3. Why you say the warrant was issued fraudulently
  4. Why you did not respond to the Human Rights letter by asking for a hearing at your local court which you could then attend.

 

Once the court has that information the matter can be further listed for hearing at which the court may either decide to withdraw the warrant or decide that it should stand.

 

I should however add that if the warrant has been executed then the court has no power to take the matter further, nor does the court have any power to order compensation against EON or impose further sanctions in any circumstances. If you wish to pursue those matters, and if EON does not deal with the complaint to your satisfaction, you should contact the Energy Ombudsman.

 

 

Quote

 

Per EON on 3 June 2019

 

We've been contacted by the Citizens Advice Bureau Extra Help Unit concerning an issue you've raised with them regarding your E.ON account.

 

This matter is now being fully investigated by the Directors Office Extra Help Unit team and you will receive a detailed response within 10 days from the date of this letter. 

 

A complaint has been lodged on your account in relation to this matter and you can view our complaint handling procedure on line at https://www.eonenergy.com/chp, if you prefer we can arrange for a paper copy to be sent to you free of charge. 

 

Yours sincerely,

 

E.ON Directors' Office

Extra Help Unit Team

 

 

October 2001Gas and Electricity Codes of Practice Guidance for Domestic Suppliers

4.8  Before installing a prepayment meter, companies must ensure that they are appropriate to a customer’s circumstances. Where customers move into premises which already have prepayment meter, companies should describe how they will establish the suitability of that method of payment for the customer.

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The CAB specialist told me to pay the outstanding balance to stop the electrician from returning the flat for a third time on the Friday.

 

I did a wire transfer via faster payments. 

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Okay. I think you have done the right thing. I have gathered from your original post that you knew that the application for the warrant would be made on a particular date.

I suggest that you send eon an SAR – although because you apparently have a corporate account, they may decline to comply – but you may as well give it a go. It's free.

Secondly, from what I understand it may be that it is your landlord's debt.  If this is correct then you need to establish that EON were fully informed that you had taken over the account on X X X date and that they must have known that they were entering the property of somebody who was not the account holder and changing the metre of somebody who was not in their debt.

Secondly it seems to me that you have a valid complaint against the landlord. Are you prepared to take the landlord on?

Do you know where the landlord is? Have you thought about supplying the landlord's details to EON?

Also, I think that is worth responding to the court and providing them with the details they require so that you can get a hearing listed to challenge EON. EON will be required to attend the hearing and also they should provide you with the copy of the file that they have and the information that they were relying on when they apply for the warrant. They will be obliged to make their disclosures in court. I can imagine that they will be reluctant to go to court and they may well try to contact you to get you to withdraw your application. I think you will have to play it by ear for a while until you understand the pattern of what is happening.

As a priority you need to get all information you can out of EON and your second priority is to get a hearing listed

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The landlord is not responsible for the bill or the fraudulently obtained Utility warrant.

 

EON lied to me.  They led me to believe they would not appear in court on 24 May 2019.

 

On the 24 May 2019, EON lied to the Magistrate and abused the UK's legal system:

  • EON told the Magistrate that I owed the full £1100 on 24 May 2019 when the actual balance was ~400. (EON told the CAB specialist that the £800 payment showed up in their system on 3 May 2019.) 
  • EON did not mention to the Magistrate that they had spoken to me and that I agreed to pay charges I believed I was responsible for - excluding their fines. (I received the letter dated 25 April 2019 on or around 29 April 2019, hence my four phone calls to them and initial payment of ~ £800.)
  • EON did not mention to the Magistrate that part of the bill was in dispute. Between 3 May 2019 and 24 May 2019, EON had an obligation to acknowledge my payment and make clear their reasons for continuing to going ahead with court action - despite the dispute.
  •  

After the phone calls and my payment, there was no further communication from EON.  Their unequivocally letter states, however,  that court action can be stopped by contacting them.  I contacted them, and they went to court anyway:
 

Quote

 

25 April 2019

 

We're going to court on 24 May 2019.

 

You owe use £1180 for the electricity you have used at ___.

 

On 24 May 2019 at 14:00 we will apply at Portsmouth Magistrates' Court Law Courts Winston Churchill Avenue Portsmouth PO1 2DQ to obtain a Warrant of Entry under the Right of Entry (Gas and Electricity Boards) Act1954 and the Electrcity Act 1989 (as amended).

 

You have the right to be in court while we are applying for the warrant.  If you'd like to attend please contact us and we'll arrange a hearing in a local Magistrates' Court. 

 

We will use the Warrant of Entry to install a prepayment meter, or if we're unable to do this safely we may disconnect your supply with or without your permission.

 

To stop this action you must pay your balance in full immediately or agree a way to pay with us.  If you don't contact us to pay this debt we'll charge you £60.00 to cover our Warrant application costs.  If we're granted the Warrant of Entry, we'll visit you within 28 days and we'll charge you an extra £90.00 to cover our costs. 

 

By contacting the court directly, before the hearing date, you can 

  • Obtain a map for the court
  • Arrange an interpreter
  • Confirm any disabled access needs
  • Obtain a list of solicitors

You may have to pay for any advice given by a solicitor.

 

To make your payment in full please call us on 0345 302 3766

 

Yours sincerely

 

Allan Machesney

Field Debt Solutions Manager

 

 

 

Ofgem have a code of practice Gas and Electricity Codes of Practice Guidance for Domestic Suppliers (October 2001). See https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/sites/default/files/docs/2001/10/gas-and-electricity-codes-of-practice-guidance-for-domestic-suppliers-10-10_0.pdf

 

Per Ofgem, "Ofgem may require the licensee to give it additional information about the operation of the code, concerning the company’s internal debt policies and procedures, which will not form part of the published code of practice."

 

Highlights from Ofgem's code of practice:

  • Each code and statement should advise customers of the role of energywatch in providing free independent advice and dealing with complaints. They should provide the central telephone/minicom numbers and the addresses of energywatch offices for customers to contact if they have any queries or complaints about the codes or statements, or their implementation, which the licensee has been unable to resolve
  • Customers should receive a service that is consistent with all codes of practice and statements.
  • All representatives of the licensee (including third-party agents) dealing directly with customers must therefore be familiar with the content of the codes and statements and arrangements should be in place to ensure that appropriate training is provided.
  • Licensees should be able to demonstrate that the aims and requirements of the codes and statements are properly reflected in operational procedures and keep a record of the general operation of the arrangements set out in the standard licence conditions. Arrangements should be made to carry out effective internal monitoring to ensure compliance of staff or agents and highlight any deficiencies that need to be addressed. 
  • The code or statement should clearly state its objectives and purpose, as set out in the standard licence condition. It should provide customers with details of: the measures in place to enable customers to recognise and establish that visits are made by bona fide representatives, for bona fide purposes;
  • The code or statement should indicate that customers will be informed of any organisations likely to request access on the licensee’s behalf
  • When no appointment has been made, the representative of the licensee must tell the customer who s/he is and explain clearly at the start of the conversation the purpose of the visit.
  • The code or statement should set out the procedures for ensuring that the above requirements are met and the action that a customer should take if s/he wishes to complain about any failure by a representative to follow the correct procedure or meet the necessary requirements.

 

More per Ofgem. See https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/consumers/household-gas-and-electricity-guide/who-contact-if-its-difficult-paying-energy-bills/energy-supply-disconnection-and-prepayment-meter-rules

Quote

 

If you don't engage with your supplier on a debt and 28 days pass, they can contact you about the possibility of disconnecting your energy supply.

 

Your supplier must give you the chance to repay the money you owe through a payment plan before they disconnect you. The plan must factor in your financial circumstances and ability to pay.

 

Debts can be repaid over a number of months as you also continue to pay for your ongoing energy use.

 

It's rare that customers are disconnected. Usually your supplier will ask to fit a prepayment meter, also referred to as a 'key card' or 'token' meter, in your home. They work in a similar way to a pay-as-you-go phone.

 

You don't have to have one if you don't want one.

 

Ask your supplier about your options. Find out more in Understand your energy meter

 

If you don’t engage with your supplier to agree how to resolve the debt, or fail to stick to an agreed payment plan, they can also install a prepayment meter under a warrant to recover the money you owe. They can only do this as a last resort and must send you a notice telling you they’re applying to the court.

 

 

 

Quote

Also per Ofgem,

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/consumers/household-gas-and-electricity-guide/who-contact-if-its-difficult-paying-energy-bills/energy-supply-disconnection-and-prepayment-meter-rules

 

If you think you shouldn't be disconnected, contact your supplier and tell them.

 

If you aren't happy with their response, follow their complaints process and make a complaint.

 

Remember, if you are threatened with disconnection it is important to act quickly and try and reach a financial arrangement that is acceptable to both you and your supplier.

 

 

 

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