Link & Natwest Credit Card CCA - they say it doesnt apply agreement is terminated?

[mickthemiller]

Hi folks

 

I made a CCA request to Link Financial over the weekend, and received a phone call on Wednesday relating to my request and that they saw it as an avoidance measure etc. etc. I recall the guy on the phone stating that they would have to request the info from the original creditor (NatWest) so I presume they don't have the papers.

 

Anyway, today I received a letter from Link with the following:

 

"Sections 77 and 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

These sections do not apply to your account. This is because Sections 77 and 78 only apply to 'matters arising during the currency of ...agreements'. Since the agreement relating to your account has been terminated (for non-payment) the agreement is no longer "current""

 

Anyone have any ideas as to my next step?

 

I have a good mind to send a copy of the letter to my local TS now but I await any information from you good people

 

Cheers

 

Mick

[nathal]

who is collecting the money

dca?

[mickthemiller]

Sorry, Link Financial are a dca.

[nathal]

they do have to provide the agreement, just ignore their tactics and remind them of the 42 days to comply

[mickthemiller]

Would you recomend I write to them again or should I just stick to my original timescale ? (As per the CCA template)

[nathal]

remind them of the timescale to comply and if they need clarification contact fsa

[zootscoot]

"Sections 77 and 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

These sections do not apply to your account. This is because Sections 77 and 78 only apply to 'matters arising during the currency of ...agreements'. Since the agreement relating to your account has been terminated (for non-payment) the agreement is no longer "current""

 

 

This is correct. They do not need to send the requested documents.

[mickthemiller]

Is there any legal obligation for a debt collection company to prove that a debt exists then? If so how do I ensure they do this?

[zootscoot]

Do you know who they purchased the debt from?

[mickthemiller]

NatWest credit card

[zootscoot]

Did Natwest write and inform you that the debt was sold to them?

[mickthemiller]

Hmmmm, I'm unsure.

 

The alleged debt is quite old 4 + yrs and around about that time I was all over the place with illness.

 

My parents agreed to pay off my debts at that time (£2k or so) and I'm pretty sure this was paid off.

 

In the past 6 months or so they have become very persistant however and I've been unsure as to whether this was one paid off or not.

 

So, All I want is some sort of legal proof that the debt exists, if it does, then I'll pay it. I do have a letter from 2002 from Link saying they own the debt, no recollection of anything from Natwest (At that stage though i was just burning letters from banks without opening them)

[zootscoot]

Best thing to do would be to do a SAR on both Natwest and Link Financial and ask Link Financial to put the debt on hold until they have complied with your request. Whilst they are no longer legally required to comply a CCA request they are required to comply with a SAR.

 

All the best

 

Zoot

[mickthemiller]

thanks zoot. out of interest, which law would link base a court case on for any "recovery" of the debt?

[Turnaround]

Quote:

"Sections 77 and 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

These sections do not apply to your account. This is because Sections 77 and 78 only apply to 'matters arising during the currency of ...agreements'. Since the agreement relating to your account has been terminated (for non-payment) the agreement is no longer "current""

 

 

 

This is correct. They do not need to send the requested documents.

 

Since when has this revelation been current?

 

Is not the current advice within this forum to get the DCA to prove you own the debt?

 

I would concur that the agreement is terminated but I know of NO legislation that supports Links argument. Under the CCA request they have to supply it.

 

Please quantify your advice

 

Regards ….Turnaround

[zootscoot]

s.77/8 come under part VI of the CCA which applies to 'matters arising in the currency of agreements'.

 

http://www.passprotect.studio400.me.uk/Consumer_Credit_Act_1974.PDF

 

The legal right to enforce the debt stems from the contract between the original creditor and the DCA.

[Turnaround]

s.77/8 come under part VI of the CCA which applies to 'matters arising in the currency of agreements'.

 

http://www.passprotect.studio400.me....t_Act_1974.PDF

 

The legal right to enforce the debt stems from the contract between the original creditor and the DCA.

 

 

Part VI of Act

Matters arising During Currency of Credit or Hire Agreements

Liability of creditor for breaches by supplier

15

Section 75 comes into operation on [1st July 1977 but only in relation to regulated

agreements made on or after that day].

 

 

75 Liability of creditor for breaches by supplier

(1) If the debtor under a debtor-creditor-supplier agreement falling within section 12(b) or

© has, in relation to a transaction financed by the agreement, any claim against the

supplier in respect of a misrepresentation or breach of contract, he shall have a like claim

against the creditor, who, with the supplier, shall accordingly be jointly and severally liable

to the debtor.

(2) Subject to any agreement between them, the creditor shall be entitled to be

indemnified by the supplier for loss suffered by the creditor in satisfying his liability under

subsection (1), including costs reasonably incurred by him in defending proceedings

instituted by the debtor.

(3) Subsection (1) does not apply to a claim—

(4) This section applies notwithstanding that the debtor, in entering into the transaction,

exceeded the credit limit or otherwise contravened any term of the agreement.

(5) In an action brought against the creditor under subsection (1) he shall be entitled, in

accordance with rules of court, to have the supplier made a party to the proceedings.

 

Please forgive me, but I still fail to see the relevance.

[zootscoot]

You've lost me?

 

Why are you quoting s.75?

[mickthemiller]

section 97 is under the part vii defaults and terminations, would this be the relevant section?

 

of the act?

[Turnaround]

My mistake, should of quoted 77&78. These sections still dont say they dont have to provide them.

 

If your refering to the "executed agreement (if any)" part of 77 still doesn't mean "they do not need to send"

[zootscoot]

They only have to comply with s.77/78 during the currency of agreements because they are contained in part VI of the Act.

 

S.97 refers to the debtor's right to ask for info regarding the amount of debt outstanding in order to pay off the debt early.

[mickthemiller]

so let me get this straight, defaulted loan gets sold by bank to a debt collection agency. Said agency is then under no obligation to prove they are owed the money.

[zootscoot]

They can prove ownership in other ways. A CCA request is nothing to do with proving a debt but to ensure the debtor is aware of the terms of an agreement which they are currently paying which is why there is no obligation for the agreement to be the original signed agreement.

[mickthemiller]

sorry for being a bit thick, but what other ways are these?

[zootscoot]

A simple letter from the original creditor stating they sold the debt to them would suffice.