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    • The private submersible industry was shaken after the implosion of the OceanGate Titan sub last year.View the full article
    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
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Santander Issue


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Hey everyone, got a rather interesting issues i hope someone can give me some solid advice on

 

I use to have a ban account with Santander (when it was Abbey National) Being young and stupid i was in my overdraft a lot, first by £200, i'd go to the bank get £300 then max that out and this carried on till it got to £800. I then lost my job and due to charges the amount when to over £900. Santander saw no money was being paid in and froze the account. In the end we came to an agreement where i would pay the amount to take it into the authorized overdraft and pay back £10 per month for 6 months then the plan would be re assessed. Now here comes the share stitch up.

 

After paying back £10 each month for 6 months, on the 7th month i go to the back to pay in £10 just in case, the cashier tells my my account is frozen and that i cannot pay any money in. We write to Santander and get nothing back. We leave it a year to be greeted with a "your owe us XXX" In the end we came to an settlement figure and i paid it.

 

The problem is not there is a nasty default on my credit file and this also tells a different story. They made a note than i had missed all of the 6 months payments of £10 and then 2 late payments on the 7 and 8th month then hit me with a default.

 

In my opinion they are morally wrong.

 

They allowed me to keep extending my overdraft knowing i lived in it.

They stopped me from paying in money to reduce the debt, then told a pack of lies to the credit agencies.

 

I do know that 95% of this is my fault as i was young and dumb but as a duty of care, Santander could of stopped me from getting a overdraft and worked out a way to bring the balance into credit.

 

Any thoughts of how to get this default removed if its even possible, the story is much longer but i'm sure you all dont want a book to read :) so summed it up.

 

Got 2 other accounts that default in a similar fashion and i'm at the stage in my life where this is effecting my chances of getting a mortgage big time.

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They should have put an 'arrangement to pay' on your file and not missed payments, but an arrangement to pay is usually viewed worse anyway.

 

The default is valid and it doesn't sound like there are grounds for removal. Santander lends money to millions of people; they don't have the time to manually consider every application for credit, it's mainly automated. The main duty of care falls with the borrower to ensure affordability.

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Hello Richyb, Welcome to CAG,

 

The data that Santander are causing to be displayed is most definitely incorrect and can be contested, you say that you reached a settlement and paid the account off, was this at a lower amount than the full outstanding balance.

 

The manner in which the account was closed is unfair it seems, Santander prevented you from making payment into the account,

you made the £10.00 payment each month on what would be seen as an 'assessment' period NOT an arrangement to pay.

 

Month 7 you are prevented from making further payments by Santander, so month 8+ a default is placed? Did you receive a default notice giving you time to remedy the default?

 

I think this is clearly unfair treatment from Satans Bank, which is nothing new!!

 

So may I suggest that this very much open to challenge and the possibility of removal the default, and the entry on the credit files.

Write to the Data Controller at Santander with the following:

 

Private & Confidential

The Data Controller

Santander.

 

Ref: Account No.xxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

FORMAL COMPLAINT: Inaccurate Data Displayed on CRA Files/Inappropriate Default:

 

Sir/Madam,

 

I write to complain regarding the conduct of Santander in regard to my current account No.xxxxxxxxx, and the overdraft facility provided on the account.

 

The circumstances are as follows, in 200X I lost my job and was then unable to service the account and the outstanding overdraft balance. I entered in to an agreement to pay £10.00 per calendar month on xx.xx.xxxx. for 6 months to be assessed at the end of the 6 month period, these payments were never missed:

 

On xx xx xxxx I attempted to pay £10.00 into the account at the xxxxxxxx branch of Santander, but the payment was refused by the cashier who stated that the account was frozen, please note I had NOT at anytime been informed that this action would be taken.

xxxx

Approximately 1 year later having had NO contact from Santander I received a letter stating that I now owed £xxx.xx, Santander had totally ignored letters sent by me in that one year perio.

 

On xx.xx xxxx., I contacted Santander and finally reached a a 'settlement' on the outstanding balance.

 

My complaints are as follows:

1. Santander Froze the account without any notice.

 

2. Santander refused payment offered at a branch because it had frozen the account.

 

3.Santander ignored letters from me when I attempted to contact the bank to resolve the matter.

 

4. Default was placed on xx, xx, xxxx., I did not receive any notice of intention to default the account and nor was I given any opportunity to remedy the default.

 

5. I believe that Santander caused the account to go over the agreed overdraft limit of £xxx.xx., by the addition of charges of £xxx.xx. The ICOs Technical Guidance on Defaults States that 'If a default sum is made up of charges without which the account would not have been defaulted, no default should be placed.

 

There is now the more serious complaint regarding Santander causing clearly inaccurate data to be displayed on my credit reference files held by ........................... credit reference agencies, the points I REQUIRE Santander to address are as follows.

 

1. Santander has caused the following data to be displayed:

(a). 6 Months of missed payments relating to the period of the agreed payment of £10.00 p.c.m, THESE PAYMENTS WERE ALL MADE.

 

(b).Santander then reported that there were two late payments on xx. xx.xxxx and xx.xx.xx, this covers the dates when Santander refused to accept payments because it had frozen the account.

It is my contention that this situation has arisen due to the incompetence and bad business practices of Santander.

 

©. It is my contention that Santander either through incompetence or deliberate actions has caused inaccurate data to be displayed on my credit reference files damaging my credit profile.

 

(d). Santander placed a default on the account, although the default was caused by the addition of charges.

 

I now Require Santander to review its conduct in regard to the 'management' of this account, taking particular note of the placing of clearly inaccurate data on credit files and the placing of the default without good reason and its failure to notify me in any way that this action was to be taken.

 

Santander has 56 days from the date hereon to answer all the points of this formal complaint, on receipt of Santander's response I will consider what further action is necessary, including but not limited to reports to all relevant regulators and a complaint to the FOS.

 

Send by recorded signed for delivery and check receipt.

 

Please amend/add dates etc. as needed.

 

Good Luck!!

 

©.

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

Please Consider making a donation to keep this site running!

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Thank you for your reply's

 

While i accept in every aspect it was my fault for living in my overdraft i do fell as tho they had a duty of care to not help me get further into debt which is what they did.

 

The problem i know i will face is how can i prove they did not let me pay the money, when i contested this they told me they would never do this.

 

They did not issue me a default notice which i know it against the law.

 

Again whats to stop them from saying they did issue it.

 

I didn't pay the full balance off, what happened was they removed most of the charges as a good will gesture but i still paid of the money i personally spent on the account.

 

I do feel i have a case to get the default removed based on it not being issued correctly but the odds are stacked against me since as its almost 3 years old.

 

I can prove tho that the money was paid into the account for the 6 months of the agreement.

 

I will defiantly use your letter as a template BRIGADIER2JCS, thanks for that.

 

I will send one off Monday and update on how i get on (Fingers Crossed)

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Richy, B,

 

Don't beat yourself up over this 99.99% of the blame here resulted from the incompetence and data manipulation by Satans Bank!!!

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

Please Consider making a donation to keep this site running!

Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit: Animo et Fide:

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Sorry but I do not think you have much of a case here, you entered an arrangement to pay, after this ended they marked your file as in default because the balance was not paid, they were under no compulsion to extend this period.

 

As for issuing a default notice, if you are referring to a section 87 notice , it is only appropriate if the intend to commence proceedings, otherwise they do not have to issue one. They should have warned you prior to placing the D on your file but this is only a guideline and not a a legal requisite, sorry but I thought I would let you know the real picture before you start wasting time sending long winded letters to no avail.

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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Hello Richyb, Welcome to CAG,

 

The data that Santander are causing to be displayed is most definitely incorrect and can be contested, you say that you reached a settlement and paid the account off, was this at a lower amount than the full outstanding balance.

 

The manner in which the account was closed is unfair it seems, Santander prevented you from making payment into the account,

you made the £10.00 payment each month on what would be seen as an 'assessment' period NOT an arrangement to pay.

 

Month 7 you are prevented from making further payments by Santander, so month 8+ a default is placed? Did you receive a default notice giving you time to remedy the default?

 

I think this is clearly unfair treatment from Satans Bank, which is nothing new!!

 

So may I suggest that this very much open to challenge and the possibility of removal the default, and the entry on the credit files.

Write to the Data Controller at Santander with the following:

 

Private & Confidential

The Data Controller

Santander.

 

Ref: Account No.xxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

FORMAL COMPLAINT: Inaccurate Data Displayed on CRA Files/Inappropriate Default:

 

Sir/Madam,

 

I write to complain regarding the conduct of Santander in regard to my current account No.xxxxxxxxx, and the overdraft facility provided on the account.

 

The circumstances are as follows, in 200X I lost my job and was then unable to service the account and the outstanding overdraft balance. I entered in to an agreement to pay £10.00 per calendar month on xx.xx.xxxx. for 6 months to be assessed at the end of the 6 month period, these payments were never missed:

 

On xx xx xxxx I attempted to pay £10.00 into the account at the xxxxxxxx branch of Santander, but the payment was refused by the cashier who stated that the account was frozen, please note I had NOT at anytime been informed that this action would be taken.

xxxx

Approximately 1 year later having had NO contact from Santander I received a letter stating that I now owed £xxx.xx, Santander had totally ignored letters sent by me in that one year perio.

 

On xx.xx xxxx., I contacted Santander and finally reached a a 'settlement' on the outstanding balance.

 

My complaints are as follows:

1. Santander Froze the account without any notice.

 

2. Santander refused payment offered at a branch because it had frozen the account.

 

3.Santander ignored letters from me when I attempted to contact the bank to resolve the matter.

 

4. Default was placed on xx, xx, xxxx., I did not receive any notice of intention to default the account and nor was I given any opportunity to remedy the default.

 

5. I believe that Santander caused the account to go over the agreed overdraft limit of £xxx.xx., by the addition of charges of £xxx.xx. The ICOs Technical Guidance on Defaults States that 'If a default sum is made up of charges without which the account would not have been defaulted, no default should be placed.

 

There is now the more serious complaint regarding Santander causing clearly inaccurate data to be displayed on my credit reference files held by ........................... credit reference agencies, the points I REQUIRE Santander to address are as follows.

 

1. Santander has caused the following data to be displayed:

(a). 6 Months of missed payments relating to the period of the agreed payment of £10.00 p.c.m, THESE PAYMENTS WERE ALL MADE.

 

(b).Santander then reported that there were two late payments on xx. xx.xxxx and xx.xx.xx, this covers the dates when Santander refused to accept payments because it had frozen the account.

It is my contention that this situation has arisen due to the incompetence and bad business practices of Santander.

 

©. It is my contention that Santander either through incompetence or deliberate actions has caused inaccurate data to be displayed on my credit reference files damaging my credit profile.

 

(d). Santander placed a default on the account, although the default was caused by the addition of charges.

 

I now Require Santander to review its conduct in regard to the 'management' of this account, taking particular note of the placing of clearly inaccurate data on credit files and the placing of the default without good reason and its failure to notify me in any way that this action was to be taken.

 

Santander has 56 days from the date hereon to answer all the points of this formal complaint, on receipt of Santander's response I will consider what further action is necessary, including but not limited to reports to all relevant regulators and a complaint to the FOS.

 

Send by recorded signed for delivery and check receipt.

 

Please amend/add dates etc. as needed.

 

Good Luck!!

 

©.

 

They accepted reduced payments for 6 months and then added a default. Does this sound familiar?

 

"21 An ‘arrangement to pay’

This involves a temporary, short-term (up to six months) arrangement where the lender agrees to accept reduced payments."

 

http://www.ico.org.uk/for_organisations/sector_guides/~/media/documents/library/Data_Protection/Detailed_specialist_guides/default_tgn_version_v3%20%20doc.ashx

 

It seems quite clear to me it was an arrangement to pay!

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They accepted reduced payments for 6 months and then added a default. Does this sound familiar?

 

"21 An ‘arrangement to pay’

This involves a temporary, short-term (up to six months) arrangement where the lender agrees to accept reduced payments."

 

http://www.ico.org.uk/for_organisations/sector_guides/~/media/documents/library/Data_Protection/Detailed_specialist_guides/default_tgn_version_v3%20%20doc.ashx

 

It seems quite clear to me it was an arrangement to pay!

Which is irrelevant in this case, as the payments were made, but Santander, froze the account and refused further payment, so the classification of the 'payment schedule' matters not.

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

Please Consider making a donation to keep this site running!

Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit: Animo et Fide:

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Which is irrelevant in this case, as the payments were made, but Santander, froze the account and refused further payment, so the classification of the 'payment schedule' matters not.

 

I'm not disputing that freezing the account and refusing further payments is both unlawful and unethical, and there's definitely a basis for complaint there. I don't see how that affects the validity of the default though. Had the payments been allowed to continue at a reduced rate, a default would still have been issued.

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It is patently clear from the POs statements he was willing to clear this debt completely and indeed did so, the default sum was directly related to Santander adding charges to the account, after refusing payments.

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

Please Consider making a donation to keep this site running!

Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit: Animo et Fide:

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I'm not disputing that freezing the account and refusing further payments is both unlawful and unethical, and there's definitely a basis for complaint there. I don't see how that affects the validity of the default though. Had the payments been allowed to continue at a reduced rate, a default would still have been issued.

 

I am not sure it is unlawful even, the have a right to demand payment, as said it was a short term agreement there is no reason why they should be compelled to commence another(in law), when the cumulative arrears reached the trigger point a default was registered, there doesn't really seem to be any mystery here.

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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Which is irrelevant in this case, as the payments were made, but Santander, froze the account and refused further payment, so the classification of the 'payment schedule' matters not.

 

I've re read the OP and I still can't tell whether Santander only wanted him to take it back into an authorised overdraft, or if they wanted the whole lot back.

 

If they only wanted the account to go back into an authorised overdraft, freezing it would make no sense.

 

If they asked for the entire overdraft back, then again, the default is valid.

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Thank you for some great reply's. Glad so many people have got involved.

 

Regarding matttye comment, they wanted the account back at £0.00 i guess with the intention to close the account completely.

 

Here is a screen shot of this account credits file and the issue, that they have told the credit company's i have not paid any of the agreed payment plan

 

i42.tinypic.com/2l8vhc9.png (sorry not got 10 posts)

 

March 2010 was the date of the agreement and was told the first payment must hit the account by April. Which it did. I have all the payment receipts for the 6 month to prove each payment was made.

 

As far as i'm concerned they closed the account without telling me thus stopping me paying in anymore money which then caused them to issue a default. They stopped me paying in money other wise i would of carried on paying in money reducing the debt. This is why i feel they are responsible for this default and why it should not stand.

 

I made it clear i was happy to clear the balance but being i was out of work at the time i could only afford small amounts. They where happy to proceed and told me after 6 months they would look at the account to make a new arrangement, This never happened.

 

Since my last reply i actually emailed Julie Savage the Executive Complaints Manager who replied saying she will be doing a private investigation into my complaint. Fingers crossed i get the desired outcome.

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