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    • He was one of four former top executives from Sam Bankman-Fried's firms to plead guilty to charges.View the full article
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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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When an account has been sold on...


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If the debt has a new owner then it is for them to take up any repayment issues with MBNA so it is not your problem. The current owner will have to repay the charges and reclaim them back from MBNA I believe

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what about in my case, where my account accrued debts (charges and interest) over a period of a couple of years, then a debt collector appears on my doorstep.

 

After a couple of weeks negotiations i agreed to repay 1500 which was mainly charges and interest!

 

So who, now do i chase for the refund? I appreciate that IF have been paid for this debt, so do i chase them? (im in contact with them at the moment to see the extent of the charges etc) or do i chase the last owners of the debt, the debt collection agency, who have also been paid out, and who, (probably) only paid a couple of hundred pounds for my debt of 1500?

 

also, what about in the situation, where my refund of charges could be greater than the amount that the debt collectors took from me? Who pays then?

 

Im getting a bit confused here, and i hope somebody will help me....

 

donnie

18-04-06 DPA sent to BOS

18-04-06 DPA sent to SMILE (a/c closed 2004)

18-04-06 DPA telephone request IF (a/c closed 2005)

20-05-06 LBA sent to IF for 974.30, 2nd letter sent 14-06-04

 

Expecting somewhere around 5k :D

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To put it simply, go after the current debt owner. They have purchased the all the rights and responsibilities under the debt. The fact that this means that they will have to go after previous owners is their responsibility. As the person who has been unlawfully charged, why should you have to sort out the clusterf**k of a mess that those who have mismanaged the debt have created?

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After my £1 statutory fee to Cabot Financial for my request under the CCA, they have finally written to me with a non-standardised response. SHOCK HORROR!! :D Having received 20 standardised responses over the last month it's quite novel to get something that's actually about me :)

 

Karen George, the Operations Manager for Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd, wrote to me to tell me I would receive a full response in 10 days. If this turns up I think I'm going to buy me a lottery ticket :D

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pretty much in the same boat as a few in this thread. just got off the phone to Cabot. they was asking me to make them a offer on the debt that i owe of £2221. and some odd pence. when they took the debt on it was £1860 so i belive, the original debt was for £1500. so just over £700 in intrest and charges from cabot. on a debt they brought for say 12% at the max.

now i ranted on about why they had phoned me when i was waiting on statements from them that they havent sent. was told once again the conversation was being recorded. i stayed calm and said tahnk you i hope this one is recorded as i would like a copy of it. to which the reply was for a small fee yes. ok not a problem

ok at one point during the conversation i asked for them to disclose the amount the debt had been brought for. advised them that they had brought a debt that had been filled with unlawful penalty charges. they wouldnt give me a total or any amounts over the phone when requested, even though i had meet with and filled there DPA request to confirm who i was. so in affect i have it on a recording that the DCA' cabot dont have to tell me how much they brought the debt for. im shocked and amazed that they wouldnt give me the info. but was happy to ask how i would like to make the payments on the debt. i have always madea offer from the begining of £20 a month to clear the debt. i was saving it up for ages, almost 15months. but my car died and i need to buy a new one, so used the money saved up. i didnt want to give them the money till it went to court, to prove i had stuck to my side of a deal i was prepared to carry through, but barclaycard refused the money everytime(is this legal to refuse a payment on a debt)

so i watch these threads with great intrest, as i would so like to be debt free and back to a normal life of not being hassled and harrased by dca's.

at one point i did try and failed to take my own life due to the stress of it all. i never set out to get in debt.

sorry didnt mean to rant on your thread, but felt i had to have a say about Cabot and the way they deal with people that are very down on there luck. they are parasites, i cant understand how the staff of these places can sleep at night knowing they are causing people to want to take there lives at the worst instance.

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Remember what I said about the interest charges Cabot take from you. The interest it COSTS them is only what they originally paid for the debt not what you owed them. They are taking this interest as a profit not a cost. Maybe someone else can advise on how best to tackle this in legal argument but it is immoral what they are doing. Finding out what it cost them to buy the debt could be more useful than you imagine although they are not obliged to tell you. I know what they pay because I work on the fringes of the credit industry and doing some work for a Debt Collection Agency Director who works in competition to Cabot and knows all about them - 12% max! I was told they rarely ever take anyone to court and rarely have the proper documentation to authenticate the original default notices. His final word to me " don't bother paying them! " ( I am not advocating not paying your debts, just ????..........!

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Thanks for all the advice in here guys, I've written to all the DCA's requesting information on who actually owns the debt, so that I can approach them for repayment of excess charges.

 

I'll note back here what happens, and how I get on with my claims in due course.

 

Incidentally, I notice that a number of people mention Cabot purchasing their accounts - there is a standard letter on DebtHelpUk forums that you should send to these parasites that should throw them off their stride: http://www.debthelpuk.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=On_Topic;action=display;num=1132168759

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thank you clonedeux for the link. will be sending them a copy of the letters.

 

i have no intension of paying someone i dont owe money to. also if it isnt no more than 12% of the debt, well i will make a offer to that amount. see what they have to say.

 

thank you.

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Okay, I have set the 12% benchmark, but... I also mentioned that these people are a business and if it wasn't for people getting into debt they wouldn't exist and we have to take a degree of responsibility for that. They need to see a profit whether you like it or not. I have previously mentioned that your negotiating skills are a key to dealing with these people and there has to be a win-win situation. If you only try to pay them 12% you'll get short shrift from them and win nothing. You owe more than 12%, set a responsible limit to what you'll pay and can afford and acknowledge you owe what you owe. Anything less that you negotiate is a bonus. Lets be sensible here, if the debt was not sold - on you would have had to repay the original company, the fact we know the DCA pays less is a bonus for us in the negotiating stance. I have on my desk a table tennis ball, one half painted black, the other white. It's a reminder to me constantly of what life is about. From one side it looks black if you hold it in front of you - to the person you show it to it's white, but it's the same ball you are looking at, (same set of circumstances you are arguing about, same debt you are negotiating). Move slightly to the side and you begin to see that from the other persons point of view the colour/vision/their take on the situation is different - that my friends is the beginning to negotiating skills - begin to see things as the other person sees it then you know what you are up against if you see things from their position. You can apply it to anything - arguments with the missis, talking to a bank manager - try to see their point of view, respect them their right to have their opinion, beg to differ, whatever, but use what you observe wisely by knowing the opponants position set yourself a benchmark to aim for in what you might pay, will pay, can get away with and then negotiate - it's amazing the power it gives you so do the same with the DCA's.. you have been warned!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi folks,

 

That information is very helpful - thanks :) I'm sent a CCA to Cabot who responded to me with, under their defition of "statement of account", is just a chronological list of all activity on my account, from the date the debt was purchased to the letters and telephone calls they made right up to my CCA request.

 

They make no note of the initial amount of the debt, how much they paid for it, what it currently stands at or anything other information relating to charges applied on it. I feel that there are lots of things missed off my request.

 

Also it advises me that Cabot are chasing the original creditor (Barclaycard) for the original agreement and this process may take 2 to 8 weeks and they "request my patience".

 

So does this means that, 12 days after my CCA request, and the fact they have yet to provide me with all the information including the original agreement, that they have broken the law? I'm unsure as to what to do now, but am happily your pawn if you want to use me to experiment. I'm up for a fight so if you suggest things for me to try out I'm more than willing.

 

Cheers for any advice and suggestions

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  • 12 years later...

This topic was closed on 03/08/19.

If you have a problem which is similar to the issues raised in this topic, then please start a new thread and you will get help and support there.

If you would like to post up some information which is relevant to this particular topic then please flag the issue up to the site team and the thread will be reopened.

- Consumer Action Group

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