I gave false details to the RPI. What do I say please?

[Rhonda321]

Hi, I've just been reading a thread in which you kindly forwarded template letters for the above. I was wondering if you still had copies and whether you would possibly consider forwarding them to me? I fully understand if this is not possible. I've found myself in a similar situation with northern rail and would be devastated if I received a criminal conviction. Many thanks.

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

I've started a new thread for you, as you posted on an old one.

 

Maybe you could tell us what happened to you please and then I hope the guys will be able to help? If you can, tell us how long ago and which train company.

 

I don't think there is a standard template as such, because everyone's case is slightly different.

 

You may have gathered that giving false information is an offence in itself though [or that's my understanding], so this will need careful handling. I'll let the guys tell you. They should be here over the course of the day.

 

Edit: sorry, you said it's Northern Rail.

 

My best, HB

[Old-CodJA]

Yes, you are spot-on HB.

 

Fare evasion is an offence and providing false details is a separate offence that, if charged and convicted, carries exactly the same penalty. I have been in a Court recently where a traveller who had comitted both offences and was then positively identified, but failed to answer a Summons and was fined £400 for avoiding a fare and a further £400 for giving a false name and address. Add to that over £100 in prosecution costs and a fare of over £50.00 and a near thousand pound penalty was imposed giving some idea of how seriously this can be treated.

 

For the OP, yes please, if you can tell us a bit more about your particular situation, maybe we can help a little

[Rhonda321]

I would very much appreciate help on this matter.

 

I boarded the train at my usual station at which the ticket office is closed for refurbishment. There was no opportunity to buy a ticket on board but staff were selling tickets at the barrier when I arrived at my destination. I stupidly bought a ticket from the station nearest my destination rather than from the station I had travelled from as I had a company cheque in my bag to purchase an annual ticket but was waiting for a letter of consent to use the cheque from my employer which they would be issuing later in the day. I did not want to duplicate rail fare for that day. On completing the purchase I was marched to a RPO and, again stupidly, gave a false name and address instead of explaining the situation. This was out of sheer panic and embarrassment. When I realised the RPO was going to check the details I gave the correct ones. I'm now waiting for a letter or summons. I'm absolutely devastated and could kick myself for being so stupid. I am willing to pay any amount of fine but need to avoid a criminal conviction as this will mean losing my job and house and being unable to visit close relatives in Australia.

 

Please help.

[ims21]

Two threads merged.

 

Please keep to this one thread for this issue

[Old-CodJA]

I would very much appreciate help on this matter.

 

I boarded the train at my usual station at which the ticket office is closed for refurbishment.

 

Was there a self-service machine at the station?

 

There was no opportunity to buy a ticket on board but staff were selling tickets at the barrier when I arrived at my destination.

 

Why could you not buy a ticket on board the train?

 

I stupidly bought a ticket from the station nearest my destination rather than from the station I had travelled from

 

This indicates a clear intention to avoid paying the correct fare. It is what is commonly described as a 'short offer' and if concvicted, carries a maximum penalty of a fine of up to £1000 and a criminal conviction. It will be charged under Section 5 of The Regulation of Railways Act (1889)

 

I had a company cheque in my bag to purchase an annual ticket but was waiting for a letter of consent to use the cheque from my employer which they would be issuing later in the day.

 

I'm afraid that isn't a valid reason for not offering to pay the correct fare.

 

 

I did not want to duplicate rail fare for that day. On completing the purchase I was marched to a RPO and, again stupidly, gave a false name and address instead of explaining the situation.

 

I'm afraid that just makes matters much worse. This simply suggests that the allegation of 'intent to avoid a fare' is entirely justified and provision of false details is a seperate offence, for which another charge may well be laid. Both offences carry the same level of penalty if convicted, so 'double trouble' I'm afraid.

 

This was out of sheer panic and embarrassment. When I realised the RPO was going to check the details I gave the correct ones. I'm now waiting for a letter or summons. I'm absolutely devastated and could kick myself for being so stupid. I am willing to pay any amount of fine but need to avoid a criminal conviction as this will mean losing my job and house and being unable to visit close relatives in Australia.

 

I cannot offer a great deal of comfort in this case I'm afraid. I think the best that you can do is write directly to the prosecutors' office at the TOC concerned and give an unmitigated apology, explain the effect that a conviction might have on your career etc and ask if you might be allowed to pay all of their reasonably incurred costs and any unpaid fares in order to dispose of this out of Court.

 

They do not have to agree and I have to say that your original post suggests that it is fairly unlikely that they will, but as I have said many times before, it is always worth a try.

 

 

 

Please help.

Edited June 21, 2012 by Old-CodJA

[Rhonda321]

Was there a self-service machine at the station?

 

 

 

Why could you not buy a ticket on board the train?

 

No, there was no ticket machine at the station and the train was completely full of standing passengers. No member of staff came round selling tickets (which they usually do). I do understand it is the passenger's responsibility to seek out the ticket sales person.

Edited May 28, 2015 by citizenB
edited at request of thread starter

[Old-CodJA]

I boarded the train at my usual station at which the ticket office is closed for refurbishment.

 

Was there a self-service machine at the station

 

There was no opportunity to buy a ticket on board

 

Why could you not pay your fare on train?

 

Staff were selling tickets at the barrier when I arrived at my destination. I stupidly bought a ticket from the station nearest my destination rather than from the station I had travelled from

 

What was happening at the barrier seems irrelevant, as your actions show a clear intention to avoid paying the proper fare. If charged & convicted of the offence of 'intent to avoid a fare or part thereof' contrary to Section 5.3 of The Regulation of Railways Act (1889), the maximum penalty is a fine of up to £1000 and will result in a criminal conviction.

 

I had a company cheque in my bag to purchase an annual ticket but was waiting for a letter of consent to use the cheque from my employer which they would be issuing later in the day. I did not want to duplicate rail fare for that day.

 

I'm afraid that isn't good reason not to pay the proper fare when asked

 

On completing the purchase I was marched to a RPO and, again stupidly, gave a false name and address instead of explaining the situation.

 

Sadly, this just makes matters worse. Providing false details when asked for a name and address is a separate offence, which carries the same maximum penalty on conviction, so 'double trouble' I'm afraid. It also seems to confirm the report that you intended not to pay

 

This was out of sheer panic and embarrassment. When I realised the RPO was going to check the details I gave the correct ones. I'm now waiting for a letter or summons. I'm absolutely devastated and could kick myself for being so stupid. I am willing to pay any amount of fine but need to avoid a criminal conviction as this will mean losing my job and house and being unable to visit close relatives who live overseas. Please help.

 

I am afraid I cannot offer great hope in this case I'm afraid, the best I can suggest is that you write to the prosecutors' office and offer an unmitigated apology, explain the effect that a conviction would have on your future career and offer to pay all of the costs incurred by the rail company as an alternative to pursuing this case in Court. You offer will need to present a more attractive outcome than sending their prosecutor, securing a conviction and recovering their fare & costs as seems likely at present.

 

They don't have to agree and I have to say that when the evidence from your post seems to confirm a clear intention not to pay the fare due at the time, I don't hold out a great deal of hope, but as I have said many times before, you lose nothing by giving it a try.

Edited May 28, 2015 by citizenB

[Rhonda321]

No, there was no ticket machine at the station and the train was completely full of standing passengers. No member of staff came round selling tickets (which they usually do). I do understand it is the passenger's responsibility to seek out the ticket sales person.

Edited May 28, 2015 by citizenB
edited at request of thread starter

[Old-CodJA]

No, there was no ticket machine at the station and the train was completely full of standing passengers. No member of staff came round selling tickets (which they usually do). I do understand it is the passenger's responsibility to seek out the ticket sales person.

 

OK, neither of these actually have a bearing on your action, I simply asked in order to understand better what actually happened. You, or your representative can mention the circumstances if this gets to Court, but in terms of your decision to offer a short fare and give false details, they cannot be said to alter the likely charge.

 

 

When responding to the letter, would it do any good to tell them I had had a terrible morning leaving my baby at nursery having recently returned from maternityleave? This genuinely contributed to my state of mind on that day but I realise they may just think me to be making irrelevant excuses.

 

 

You can say whatever you like in your letter, there is no harm in trying to encourage a little sympathy, but I suggest one key thing is not to 'pile on' what might be perceived as 'emotional blackmail'.

 

That can often be counter-productive. A truthful explanation with genuine apology and request for consideration, with a written undertaking never to repeat the offence is much more likely to get a result.

Edited May 28, 2015 by citizenB

[Rhonda321]

OK, neither of these actually have a bearing on your action, I simply asked in order to understand better what actually happened. You, or your representative can mention the circumstances if this gets to Court, but in terms of your decision to offer a short fare and give false details, they cannot be said to alter the likely charge.

 

 

 

 

 

You can say whatever you like in your letter, there is no harm in trying to encourage a little sympathy, but I suggest one key thing is not to 'pile on' what might be perceived as 'emotional blackmail'.

 

That can often be counter-productive. A truthful explanation with genuine apology and request for consideration, with a written undertaking never to repeat the offence is much more likely to get a result.

 

Thankful for your help, much appreciated. I've drafted a letter ready to reply. I can't express how idiotic I feel, but what's done is done. Many thanks.

[colony]

How did you get on with your letter? Heard anything back?

[Rhonda321]

How did you get on with your letter? Heard anything back?

 

Just an update. I'd got the train company wrong. It was Transpennine Express rather than Northern rail. I hadn't heard anything at all and was worried sick so I eventually called Northern Rail to see if they had anything on file, which they obviously didn't. The lady at the other end was surprisingly pleasant and quite sympathetic and advised me to send in a letter with as much detail as possible. I'd already had a quick word with a solicitor who'd advised me to send in a letter of apology but not to admit to anything directly but I thought I should really just explain what had happened and try to convey that it was really not my intention to leave them unpaid. However, the other day I received a letter from Transpennine which didn't even ask for an explanation of the situation, it was just asking for payment of £78.50 for costs. I feel very, very lucky. I think Northern Rail prosecutions dept are actually quite decent from having spoken to themand will genuinely take into account your situation. I suspect the best course of action would be to send a genuine explanation followed up by a very polite phone call. I'm just so glad it's been resolved. I really feel for all the decent people out there who've made one mistake and are now facing a possible criminal conviction.