Announcement: ESA claimants now have the option of having their WCA recorded

[**Margaret**]

: :rant: :

 

More DWATO duplicity and evasion, part one;

 

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/audio_recording_by_claimants_of#incoming-427598

 

A not entirely unexpected let down, which makes a complete mockery of every ministerial proclamation on the issue, and the recent flurry of hard won printed info. I wish the enquirer every success with the info commissioner.

 

N another , Margaret.

[**Margaret**]

: :rant: :

 

More DWATO duplicity and evasion, part two;

 

In the wake of the above freedom of info response my husband decided to chase the resources clerk who offered, two months ago, to find out about Tatos approval process for dictaphones. The clerk wasn't saying what, if anything, he'd found out. Apparently the info's no longer relevant cos Tatos don't have an outstanding referral for me. :?:

 

Margaret.

[**Margaret**]

: :rant: :

 

More DWATO duplicity and evasion, part three;

 

Gosh! Four months since I've updated this thread. Probably cos there's not a lot to update it with.

 

We've used :nolegion:'s suggested tactics in the past, but we didn't need to during the final months of last year. As our area was down to one dual compact disc recorder, we had two claimants (complete with national insurance numbers) who chose the dictaphones route. Or tried to!!! One of whom was getting pretty desperate cos her three hundred and sixty five days of assessment rate employment n support ran out!

 

Outcome of this charade that claimants can use two identical dictaphones with standard audio cassette tapes:

 

Let the resources clerk know what you want to use and he'll let 'them' know. Turn up with said recorders to be told; 'sorry we don't know anything about it'.

 

The resources clerk will find out about the approval process for dictaphones, sometime never.

 

And that electronic mail trail? She can vaguely remember something about it.

 

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/149151/response/380326/attach/3/email%20Trail.pdf

 

Margaret.

[**Margaret**]

:And The Slightly Better News (for now):

 

In June 13 DWATO relaxed the four week cut off point to wait for one of their audio recorders. Since then;

 

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2013-11-08a.174659.h

 

But despite two revised versions during 2013, DWATO still don't mention the option on an ESA50 questionnaire.

Margaret.

[**Margaret**]

:Personal Independence Payments:

 

The charade initiated by Ms McVey (#1104) continues;

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers

(Pages 37 - 39)

 

Like its partner in crime;

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/work-capability-assessment-handbook-for-healthcare-professionals

 

There's absolutely no indication of the true restrictions on overtly audio recorded by claimant assessments. Nothing about the min £1,400 price tag for the only dual audio recorder approved by DWATO. And nothing about the two appropriate devices purportedly allowed for work capability assessments. Probably cos to date, to the best of my knowledge, there haven't been any assessments recorded on two identical audio cassette or compact disc recorders.

 

Should anyone reading this have openly recorded an assessment by Atos or Capita, please let us know.

 

Since when does taking an audio record of an interview equate to 'failure to participate' Once again, Work n Pensions appear to have 'overlooked' their own legal advisers;

 

'Legal advice has been obtained to confirm that recording of assessments for the claimant must be allowed without unreasonable obstructions.'

 

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/rfp_27_recording_medical_assessm#incoming-339826

 

So why the presumption for disallowance:?: And conspicuous by its absence, mention of a claimant's right to take notes. For some very stressed claimants, a second best option to the risk of disallowance.

 

Wonder how long the current evaluation, of audio recorded by Atos assessments, will take:?: All those oh so so difficult statistics:roll:

 

Margaret.

[**Margaret**]

: :flypig: :

 

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/work-capability-assessment-audio-recording-of-face-to-face-assessments-faqs

 

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/pip-audio-recording-consultations.pdf

 

Not quite sure where 'no legal right to an audio recorded assessment' accords with;

 

'...... recording of assessments for the claimant must be allowed without unreasonable obstructions.'

 

:For Information Only:

 

During May 13, we sailed past the first anniversary of DWATO's attempts to arrange an audio recorded assessment in connection with my benefit claim. With three appointments already cancelled for lack of an audio recorder, it was time to enquire about recording my assessment ourselves. And yes, we considered the covert recording option (keyfob, pen, mobile phone) but we'd only just recovered from an upheld tribunal for incapacity benefit and it was too soon to risk a repeat performance.

 

Among my other crimes against DWATO, I belong to a self-help group for support to manage my condition. Praps we could club together to buy a dual audio cassette recorder? But of course, we'd need to check that it met the 'reasonable conditions'. Cue a freedom of info request.

 

'Does a T-A-S-C-A-M 202 MK.5 Cassette Recorder comply with the Department's 'reasonable conditions' for an audio recorded, by claimant, work capability assessment?'

 

'The Freedom of Information Act ...... does not include either confirming opinions held by correspondents or entering into a discussion.'

 

:???: When, if ever, will DWATO learn that quoting legislation doesn't answer the question? This machine is capable of recording two tapes simultaneously. Currently it retails at around £400.00.

 

A few days later, in the wake of the disclosed electronic mail trail from Atos, which specifies Dictaphones.

 

'Do two Philips 388 Analogue Pocket Memo dictation machines comply with the Department's 'reasonable conditions' for an audio recorded, by claimant, work capability assessment?

 

'...... the Department is not obliged to comply with a subsequent identical or substantially similar request ......'

 

Like most Dictaphones these machines use mini cassettes. In my opinion, the subsequent requirement for standard audio cassettes is another unreasonable obstruction. The Dictaphones cost about £150.00 each.

 

:faint:We needed a break.

 

 

Following another cancelled appointment in June, my husband did everything he could to get some sense out of our local resources clerks and Atos 'Customer Relations' as to what we could use to record the next appointment Atos arranged. And got precisely nowhere!! Except that my referral was recalled by Jobcentreplus!!

 

Fast forward to October/November. A resources clerk said he would let an assessment centre know that one of our friends planned to record an assessment with two identical personal audio cassette recorders that use standard tapes.

 

Sony TCM 150 Cassette Recorders @ £49.99 each from Amazon

 

Friend fronted up for his assessment to be told the centre knew nothing about it! And the manager doubted that the Sony recorders would be approved anyway!!

 

Around the same time I was helping another friend to chase the acceptability of 'table top' audio cassette recorders.

 

Sony TCM 939/B Compact Cassette Voice Recorder @ £29.99

 

Which are in short supply at the moment but we already own one each. And the very similar.

 

Philips Cassette Players @ £34.99 each from Argos

 

Lots of murmurings about sound quality and when chased for the second time, the clerk's advice was to wait for one of their machines!

 

But applicants for a personal independence payment don't have the option to wait. Current Government policy is that neither Atos nor Capita offer audio recorded assessments.

 

The Consumer Action Group is neither advertising, nor promoting purchase of, any of the above mentioned audio cassette recorders. There is no indication whatsoever that Atos/Capita or the Department for Work and Pensions will approve any of them for use by a claimant to record an assessment for a disability benefit.

 

**Margaret**

[**Margaret**]

:2ltr16valve:

 

Are you able to tell us whether you've got Atos written agreement to a make/model of Dictaphone?

 

And whether the form looks like the one below;

 

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/188599/response/468149/attach/3/ATTACHMENT.pdf

 

Margaret.

[**Margaret**]

:Hi 2ltr16valve:

 

Thanx for copying your letter onto CAG so that we can see it.

 

Most of the letter is one version of the standard information that Atos/Capita send to claimants about the 'reasonable conditions' for an audio recorded by claimant assessment. Assuming your name and address are above the initial paragraph, Atos have adapted the instructions into a personal letter.

 

There's a possible contradiction between Dictaphones and standard cassette tapes, most Dictaphones use mini cassettes. And there's different interpretations of the word 'appropriate'. Suspect it's more likely than not that your Dictaphones will be declared unsuitable on the day, for one excuse or another.

 

But your letter's one I've not seen before, so I'll be interested to hear :nolegion:'s comments.

 

Margaret.

 

Just read #1145 again. as to what Atos want you to do with the consent form.