Cap1 & CCA return

[ladybird17]

Can we clarify here -this thread is so huge it's getting a tad difficult to decipher! Is it established (re: S85) that a credit card is in fact a Credit Token? Is it also established that a new agreement should be sent out with every re-issued Credit Card? And is it established that if a new agreement is NOT in existence then the CC isuer is in default? If all the answers are yes, then this is SUCH a goody!!!!!!!!!!

[ladybird17]

Tamadus or Terminator (or anyone in fact hat has got their head around this!) This is the letter I have just written to MBNA. Comments PLEASE, before I make an ass of myself!

 

Dear MBNA

Re: Account No. XXXX............

I would first start by confirming the telephone conversation which took place yesterday morning (26th January 2007) with your operative, Gemma. We discussed that I am claiming under my PPI and Gemma and I agreed that St. Andrews (i.e. the insurer) are making payments to you later than the due date on my account. Because of the lateness of their payments to you, you are debiting me with late payment charges. I am unclear as to the validity of these charges, as I see no evidence of manual intervention when they are applied. Perhaps you would clarify this point. It was agreed that my account would be "In Dispute" as of the date of the phone call.

However, it has been brought to my attention that under Section 85 of the CCA, it was your contractual obligation to issue me with a signed copy of the agreement relating to this account when you issued me with a new card. This you failed to do, and I would respectfully point out that it appears to be MBNA that is in default, not, as you suggest in your letter of 20th January 2007, me.

I fail to see how any of the interest and punitive late payment charges that have been applied to my account since the date of issue of the current card are legal or enforceable when you have clearly failed to abide by the regulations of the CCA.

It is my intention therefore, to claim back the interest and any other illegal charges that have been applied to my account since the date of issue of the new card. I shall however, desist in doing so for 14 days from the date of this letter to allow you the opportunity of sending me a satisfactory response.

Yours sincerely,

Please tell me I have successfully understood this thread! If you can't tell me that, please send me copious amounts of alcohol in which to drown my sorrows! THANK, THANKS

[ladybird17]

Thank you both Rosie & Zubo - I am not going to send letter until Monday - as I'm sure this will get read, re-read and amended - for the better - over the weekend. And to think I only came on here to see if anyone else had had their cahoot flexible loan rate almost doubled! Now I have about 6 months worth of "ongoing projects" with all those nasty financial instutions to work on, plus I am spending every free moment on ths site and picking up great advice from some very clued up people. It's become my new hobby!

[ladybird17]

hi Zubo - no it wasn't just for me. Cahoot suddenly decided they were stopping their Flexible Loans and raised the rate of interest to 14.9% - they informed us on 6th December that rates would go up on.....6th December! I was paying7.9% up until then. It obviously depended what rate of interest you were paying prior to the hike, and I know some people were paying less than me, some more - but it appears they just sent a generic e-mail to all Flexible Loan customers with their kind "announcement"!

[ladybird17]

Good point JonCris - although their T&C's state 7 day's notice for interest changes, and in effect, they gave retrospective notice, so wote to them last Monday - they have acknowledged, and they HOPE to get back to me in 5 working days ...so just wating.

[ladybird17]

Have just "tweaked" my letter to MBNA re. S85 - thanks to all on this thread who have helped- invaluable. Battleaxe how are you doing with MBNA? And should I now move this to the MBNA thread?

[ladybird17]

I did post a copy of my S85 letter yesterday, but have made a couple of changes, so here it is again. There is a further issue I have outlined in this letter - as you will see from the first paragaph. I thought about deleting it on this page as it would make me easily identifiable, but then I thought "and so what?" so here it is:

 

Dear Ms. MBNA

Re. Account No: xxxx

 

I would first start by confirming the telephone conversation which took place yesterday morning (26th January, 2007) with your operative xxxx. We discussed that I am claiming under my PPI and xxxx and I agreed that St. Andrews are making payments to you later than the due date on my account, despite my sending in documentation of my continuing sickness on time. Because of the lateness of their payments to you, you are debiting me with late payment charges. I am unclear as to the validity of these charges, as I see no evidence of manual intervention when they are applied. Perhaps you would clarify this point. It was agreed that my account would be “In Dispute” as of the date of the phone call.

Notwithstanding the above, it has been brought to my attention, that under Section85 of the CCA, it was your statutory obligation to issue me with a signed copy of my agreement with yourselves when issuing me with a new Credit Card. This you failed to do, and I would respectfully suggest that it is MBNA that is, and has been since the date of issue of the new card, in default, not as you suggest in your letter, me.

I fail to see how any of the interest and punitive late payment charges that have been debited to my account since the date of issue of the current card are lawful or enforceable when you have clearly failed to abide by the regulations of the CCA.

It is my intention therefore, to claim back the interest and any other unlawful charges that have been applied to my account since the date of issue of the new card, due to your default. I shall however, desist in doing so for 14 days from the date of this letter to allow you the opportunity of sending me a satisfactory response .

Yours sincerely,

[ladybird17]

This thread gets more interesting by the hour! If the courts did overturn and make it enforceable, it would be interesting to see what would then happens if the claimant then raises other issues like S.77 -9 or S.85 - if they have failed to comply wth other sections, and it still gets overturned and made enforceable, then that would surely make a mockery of the CCA if it's possible can wriggle out of every section not complied with?

[ladybird17]

I don't know the answer to that Battleaxe! I wouldn't have thought they would defend a S85 - but what I think and what the banks think couldn't be further apart on the spectrum of rational, fair and sensible thought processes! And it always help to remember never to confuse the law with justice.

[ladybird17]

I wonder if this applies to internet only accounts - because they have their T & C's on the site, so could they just "alert" you to the site in the agreement?

[ladybird17]

Terminator - I'd love to find the info on Cahoot -I just had a claim blocked as I quoted from the printed T & C's they sent me when I first started the loan - but these had been superceded by loads of amendments which they inform you about via "secure messaging" on your Account page online. I do read these messages, but quite frankly,I don't remember a lot of them.

[ladybird17]

try Home Page - Public

[ladybird17]

I have an OD facility on an HSB current account - & they wote & confirmed this, and when I once went over the OD limit - about £35 I think - they wrote to me AGAIN onfirming my "informal" overdraft request. As I had never actually requested it, I called them about it and this is what they are now doing - if you go over the limit they call it an informal arrangement but still write and confirm it, so is it only HSBC who are covering themselves in this way?

[ladybird17]

PaulW - in regards S85 - if the CCA says copy of "original agreement" how can T & C's be this? An agreement has to include certain points of reference and most of these would not be included in T&C's, surely? We have established that copy of agreement is not generally sent out with new card, and I can't remember receiving T&C's either.

[ladybird17]

yes Paul I agree with your sentiments! But if you don't get a copy of agreement OR the T&C's with a new card then you ain't got nuffin! The only way I can see round the T & C's is that internet only accounts would have them on their website, which makes it a doddle for them to change and just send you a mail saying "Important changes to T & C's" - but still don't see how generic T&C's can be construed as "Copy of Agreement" Terminator or Tam or Pam or one of the others will come on soon and clear this up!!

[ladybird17]

Battleaxe - I have heard nothing from Mbusa since I sent my S85 letter - another 5 days to go. And....are you in the paper?

[ladybird17]

InKogneeto - I had the same wth Cahoot - have challenged them but unfortunately, both their T&C's & the Banking Code have nothing to stop them doing this.

I also had the upper limit of loan reduced for which their T&C's say there must be "a valid reason" and their valid reason was that I was not the only one they had done it to, it's based on my borrowing blah, blah. But given that this was purely a matter of principle for me, if you like "sharp practice", & I've got bigger fish to fry, (like waiting for reply to my S85 letter to MBNA) I haven't pursued it further.

[ladybird17]

Agreed JonCris - but at present, this has not considerably financially disadvantaged me as it only happened last month - but maybe 6 months down the line when I tot up the extra I've paid them on the (excessive) rate hike - it may well be worth challenging

[ladybird17]

Some of us have, or are in the process of, going for S85 claims - but the general concensus seemed to be that this hasn't been fully tested yet. Battleaxe is due to speak to legal eagle at Mbna onThurs. pm. and I have, and I know Terminator has issued S85. Think Tam may have got round to doing his as well - and maybe some others. So have you gone the whole way with S85? If so you are further on than most so your input would be astoundingly useful!

[ladybird17]

which woman are you referring to Peter? We CAN admit when we're wrong - e.g., I bought the WRONG shoes, this handbag looks WRONG with this outfit. I married the WRONG man. See....?

[ladybird17]

I have edited this post as I put something flippant about Battleaxe's post about the letter bomb - have just seen someone was injured, so don't think making jokes about it is appropriate.

[ladybird17]

Hey girls - can we get him under the Sex Discrimination Act? (or let's wait until he gets all his pay outs and THEN do it)

[ladybird17]

Chap

[ladybird17]

OK guys - I'm going to throw something else into this melting pot - take a look

FSA fines GE Capital Bank

 

I particularly like Nos. (2) & (6) of the FSA's Principles for Business.

Please excuse me if this has been raised previously, and I'm prepared for you to all shoot me down in flames!

 

 

p.s. Here are the four letter words I DO like:

 

Shoe. Wine. Food. Shop. Cash

[ladybird17]

Can some of you much cleverer and more experienced people than me please take a look at my thread on this #2013 - I would like to know if this has been looked at before, are there any new ways further forward with this etc.

 

PS. Another 4 letter word I like is: RICH (as opposed to DEBT..or even POOR) and of course WISE as opposed to DUMB (and for the latter I refer to Venus and Mars as already raised in this thread)