Ingeus

[Mr.P]

Ingeus staff lying is nothing new unfortunately

 

Let's be fair. It is not an issue unique to Ingeus - All the W2W provider employees lie. It is part of their job description.

 

The biggest lie is the one where they say "we help you back in to work".

[Mr.P]

Would this constitute as harassment? I haven't answered any of their phonecalls or responded to any emails, but this is how many times they've phone my mobile lately -

[...]

I'm starting work with the Commonwealth Games soon and have my training for them tomorrow and I'm worried Ingeus will somehow find out and start pestering them on my behalf for whatever reason.

 

You need to send them a letter by post to the effect:

Your repeated attempt to contact me by telephone is excessive and unwarranted. Any and all future communication must be made in writing only. Please ensure that you remove my telephone number from your records with immediate effect.

 

Should you persist in attempting to contact me by telephone, I will be reporting you to the relevant authorities with the view to bring a criminal charge of harassment. If you do not understand the implications of this, I would strongly recommend you consult a qualified lawyer before engaging in any further harassment.

 

When you start your training tomorrow, turn the phone off or put it on silent ringing - Your trainer and colleagues will appreciate it.

 

Presumably you will be signing off tomorrow - If so, bear in mind that you are under no obligation to give a reason or name the employer if anyone from the DWP/JCP ask. If you tell them of this job, the information will be passed on to Ingeus.

[Mr.P]

The training is for a job that isn't starting until late-July and is only for 11 days. Would I need to sign off during this? Obviously that's no problem but I don't want to sign off, do the work and then have to go through the long process of re-registering a claim and having to fill out all the forms again.

 

I imagine my [ingeus] advisor will be very snappy and patronising to me because I've been ignoring them and didn't go to their pointless "mock interview" a while ago. Sigh.

 

Do you get paid for this training ?

 

If so, I'd suggest discussing with a JCP adviser - They may suggest that you do the training and then declare money you got paid, or they could tell you that you'd need to sign off and do a rapid reclaim when it is finished.

 

If it is unpaid training (that sucks....), the JCP adviser may tell you that you'd need to discuss it with Ingeus... Either way, you would not be "available for work" and wouldn't technically be eligible to claim JSA whilst doing the training.

 

A4e used to have a "promise" in one of their documents (I think they still use it) that said "We will treat you how we ourselves would like to be treated" - My response was "OK. You patronise, insult, and denigrate me, I will reciprocate. If you don't know what those big words mean, feel free to look them up in a dictionary.".

[Mr.P]

'Hi Hun, tomorrow at 10:30'

 

Definition (from various dictionaries):

Hun

 

1. A member of a warlike Asiatic nomadic people who invaded and ravaged Europe in the 4th-5th centuries.
   
2. Derogatory word for German or protestant, esp in Northern Ireland.
   
3. Dirty, filthy, smelly, bigoted Rangers fan with a huge chip on both shoulders. The sort of person who hates everyone and ironically, any decent person hates them.
   

Today is the seventieth anniversary of the D Day landings in Normandy, and July 28th will mark one hundred years since the commencement of the Great War. In light of these two events, to be addressed as 'Hun' could be seen as being offensive.

 

If it had been me, I'd be ripping his/her ear off

[Mr.P]

I am at INGEUS again on Thursday, no doubt being told I need to sharpen up on my interview skills etc because I didn't get the job I was after.

 

If it were me, I'd say nothing about the interview. No point in giving them ammunition to use against you.

[Mr.P]

So we've come to an arrangement.

 

You have been officially "parked" so that they can concentrate on the more profitable cases. Should you be fortunate to find a job before the end of your sentence, be assured, they will take an interest in you again and harass you for employer details.

[Mr.P]

You have totally the wrong attitude, uncooperative, non-conforming and confrontational. You are totally opposed and unwilling to cower like a beaten cur before the authority of your self appointed betters.

 

I refer the honourable gentleman to the Work Programme Agreement issued by the esteemed A4e (F.o.I. request: 5060). Please note the following quoted from page 3:

 

As well as all of the above, we also promise to:

• Treat you as we would wish to be treated ourselves

Should your Work Programme provider have issued you a document with similar wording, I would suggest that it gives one the right to reciprocate in kind if the "adviser" insults, denigrates, or abuses you.

 

 

 

Edit: Those A4e forms are so wrong on many levels - By signing any one of them, you consent to personal information being stored and processed which ignores DWP guidance on the subject....

[Mr.P]

pparently we'll all get to [...] play games together .

 

Take a deck of cards, some crayons, teddy bear, and a few other toys. If they want to patronise and insult you, return the favour.

[Mr.P]

I'm not happy to pay 10 quid a month in bus fares. This worked out nicely and able to claim my fares back..Until this new advisor Catherine says ''sorry we cant pay your fares if its your signing on day."

 

Hopefully, you kept your bus ticket for future reference...

 

A letter to the office manager informing them that they are required to refund all travel expenses as per provider guidance quoted in the above post - Point out that this is a contractual obligation on their part and failure to comply will result in the complaint being escalated to the DWP and.or your local MP.

 

Head the letter "Formal Complaint" and see what comes of it.

[Mr.P]

Next week I have a workshop to attend 'How to answer interview questions' I think I may be riling them up within 5 minutes with:

"Mr/Mrs trainer - please tell me how this workshop is benefiting me?"

 

Might I suggest a couple more questions:

 

"What qualifications do you have that enables you to call yourself a trainer ?"

"What experience do you have of interviews from either side of the table that is relevant to all that are here ?"

 

[Mr.P]

Do not rely on receiving email/text notifications (or reminders) - email can be unreliable, especially if you set up aggressive antispam measures.

 

About the only way of ensuring that you receive properly mandated appointments is to demand that all letters are handed to you personally. Mandatory appointments notified by way of email or text does not comply with DWP guidance, and if they are failing to post the letters out to you in good time, their process needs changing.

[Mr.P]

I just received my letter saying I have to travel a fair distance to a place in wyhthenshaw Manchester for my first appointment relating to my mwa

the travel time alone is prolly way over an hour and the traffic getting there is really bad

 

You let on that you have a car ????

 

How long would it take to get there on public transport ?

If using the bus/train would take over 90 minutes (including any waiting time for connections), instruct the JCP that you require a provider that is closer to your home.

 

Should your JSA be stopped for any reason, you would need to visit your local council and file a "nil income" claim - This should entitle you to CTR/HB without a break. You will probably still have to find a small amount of money for council tax unless you are fortunate to live in an area that gives 100% CT relief.

[Mr.P]

The original high court ruling found the scheme "unlawful" on the grounds the DWP failed to provide sufficient information to the claimant. The retrospective Statutory Instrument that was rushed through retrospectively corrected the original technicalities and thus saving the DWP a few thousands in repaying benefits stopped because of "unlawful" sanctions.

 

It is the retrospective aspect of this S.I. that has been found in breach of the Human Rights Act - It does not make the current schemes unlawful.

 

What this current ruling also does is send IDS in to another temper tantrum and wasted yet more tax payer's money on further appeals. It may also raise awareness within the general public about the abilities of the minister responsible for this mess.

[Mr.P]

If you can get to and from this office in Wythenshawe within 90 minutes each way and you have been mandated to attend, I don't there is any real way out of it. Keep your bus tickets and demand a refund, in full, and without any strings attached when you get there - Look upon it as a day out at their expense.

 

You don't have to be sanctioned in order to make a nil income declaration. But if you close your claim for JSA and then make a declaration to the council to get HB/CTR, they may wonder how you intend to survive. You'd still need to pay for food, energy, and water - Savings won't last long, so be ready for some awkward questions about personal finances.

[Mr.P]

[...] the appointment in wythenshaw is my work placement

there is a time table included for 4 weeks with start times ranging from 8am - 9am finishing at 6 pm

so you don't think there is a way out of this?

 

Check the bus timetables and see if you can get there in good time and home again - Round here, the bus service doesn't really get going until around 07:30 which is pretty useless if one has to travel for more than an hour to make an 08:00 start.

[Mr.P]

- Always make sure you can get transport to the job. If in doubt, go to Google Maps and type in the name of the place you live and the place you will be working for.

 

"I've had 12 clients go into work in the past week. I'm telling you. What? You think i'm lying? She's laughing. Do you think I'm laughing, doll? I'm deadly serious."

 

"Well gee doll.... I just applied for a job with an outfit at this address: 1600 Amphitheatre Parkway, Mountain View - Google Maps says 'We could not calculate directions between PE1, UK and 1600 Amphitheatre Pkwy, Mountain View'"

 

Oh, and I too have had the "We found jobs for X people last week" line - When I asked "and how many clients do you currently have on your books ?" and pointed out that X out of XXX was a pretty damned poor show, things went a little quiet

[Mr.P]

a few weeks late she brought it up again and pushed me to apply for call centre work until i finally caved.

 

my advisor got me to apply the for jobs online and to then pass on the details so they could check the applications and correct any errors, naively i gave them the details and then they submitted the applications for me.

 

You need to take back control of your job search activities and make it quite clear to this "adviser" that it is your responsibility to submit applications - If she has been creative with your CV, it is you that could suffer the consequences. Now that she has submitted an application on your behalf that could compromise your mental health at a later stage and falsified information (i.e. wrong hours), you have grounds to instruct her to desist. I'd suggest putting it in writing so that they have a copy on file, and if it happens again, lodge a formal complaint.

[Mr.P]

This one says that but also says "expand your searches in to other sectors and vacancies"

 

Look on the Ingeus web site and see if they have any vacancies. At the next meeting, hint that you are gunning for the manager's job as you could probably make a better go of it than the current individual.

[Mr.P]

Send her a postcard or dump a bucket of sand on her desk

[Mr.P]

If she finds the job such a burden she should quit and look for another job.

 

Indeed - When the previous programme (Flexible New Deal) was shut down early, I suggested that the "advisers" started to look for alternative employment. Pointed out that they were unlikely to remain employed and TUPE was not going to be an option open to them. I'll not repeat the response

Suffice to say, the office manager jumped ship within a few weeks and left the remaining staff to struggle on.

[Mr.P]

I was once offered a work boast (what a4e can it) at boots for the whole of december. i told them i wasn't being anyone's christmas month slave!

 

I had a "get out of jail free" card before I got sentenced to serve time at A4e - Managed to get a paid job as a Christmas casual for three weeks just before the referral came through. If they had tried to stitch me up with a "work boost" or MWA on the grounds I lacked recent employment history, be assured there would have been some very blunt and stern words said.

 

Which reminds me.... Royal Mail will be kicking off their Xmas casual recruitment soon, if you want early notification, it is worth registering now: https://rmg.i-grasp.com/fe/angard.asp

[Mr.P]

Local Argos store wasn't recruiting any Xmas staff a year or two back - They took on a load of MWA/"work experience placements", cut right back on overtime hours and used the free labour to take up the slack. Boots would have been no different, so a good call on your part.

[Mr.P]

I suspect they are referring to the complaint process set out in the Work Programme Provider Guidance, Chapter 16. In a nutshell, the last level of the (official) process is to refer the complaint to the Independent Case Examiner which will cost the provider up to £5,000 if the complaint is upheld. The ICE also has the powers to order payment of compensation and impose additional sanctions against the provider in question.

 

Should you remain dissatisfied with the ICE, you have the final option of asking your MP to refer the case to the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman.

 

The final two stages of the complaints process was introduced in to the Work Programme contracts in an attempt to provide a more robust resolution system compared to the previous Flexible New Deal scheme.

[Mr.P]

Half an hour later, my adviser rang my mobile with a message to have my mobile switched on as an adviser from another office was about to start a few people working in Glasgow. I am assuming I would have had to go to Glasgow that day.

 

You can not be mandated to "have your phone on" or "accept a call from " by way of voice message, email, or text. All Mandatory Activity Notices must be in writing and either handed to you or sent by post and timed to arrive in good time. This is clearly set out in the DWP issued provider guidance which any WP clerk should be aware of.

 

If you want to answer any calls from an unknown number, that is your choice - I for one give Glaswegian callers a right ear full (anonymous call centres touting solar panels).

 

Also make sure you ask for - and receive - your Exit Report from Ingeus.

 

Do not "ask". Demand a copy. Once you have left the building, submit a Subject Access Request via the DWP and insist that all information held by Ingeus is provided forthwith. Don't be afraid to hold the DWP data controller to account if any documents are missing or you feel the file is incomplete.

[Mr.P]

Now to badger Seetec's upper echelon for a final response so I can move this charade onto the ICE's desk.

 

If this new manager appears to be more cooperative, why not approach her for a "final response" - She may just be daft enough to comply, then you have all the pieces in place to go to the next stage.