Ingeus

[Mr.P]

how do you get correctly mandated for the nonsense the pimps do?

is it possible to get out of a stupid waste of time course such as effective job seeking?

 

Would suggest reading the provider guidance notes as issued by the DWP and check to see is the mandation notice includes the relevant wording & logos. Also ask "how does this fit in with personalised and tailored support ?". Note: Unless you can get the provider to withdraw the notice without using the word "refused", you are at risk of a sanction once mandated.

[Mr.P]

Before you start Ingeus, can I suggest you read the DWP guidelines; these are all the rules Ingeus - and all other WP's - have to follow. My previous post #3041 has the link to the DWP site. Very helpful to know these rules and what your rights are, to save Ingeus telling you any old rubbish...and believe me, they will if you let them.

 

Let me add:

 

• Record all conversations.
  
• Insist on copies of all paperwork.
  
• Refuse to sign blank sheets of paper (only ever sign off a report on the same page).
  
• Take a red pen to correct spelling mistakes.
  
• Decline to sign any Data Protection Act waivers.
  

[Mr.P]

I've tried educating my fellow sufferers too, some make use of it but sadly most are still too intimidated by the WP's sanction threats and even more wary of the Jobcentre. I can quite understand; it takes a bit of courage to stand up and assert yourself and not everyone can do that.

 

Be careful when attempting to educate your fellow conscripts - It could be seen as "misconduct" and result in you being thrown out with a "Failure to Participate" sanction in tow. When I advised a fellow sufferer to record meetings when I bumped in to him at reception, certain "members of staff" were somewhat hostile to the comment.

[Mr.P]

How are you to know what misconduct is until you have read or been told THE RULES?

In the work place shop stewards are always handing out union material to fellow workers so why should this be any different?

I would tell them members of staff where to go to be quite frank.

 

If my experiences with A4e are anything to go by, they make up the rules as they go along. As these establishments are not a recognised "workplace" for the conscripts, I doubt very much that the drones would grant shop steward privileges to anyone handing non-approved material. They are much more likely to generate a creative account of events and use it as a basis for a sanction - All I'm doing is suggesting a bit of discretion when handing out any leaflets.

 

jasta11: If you think you can get away with it, print out the DWP provider guidance notes on Ingeus' printer

Edited June 30, 2013 by citizenB

[Mr.P]

Ideally, I'd love to get all the advisors in a classroom and do a Powerpoint presentation, going through each rule very slowly and making them write it down.

 

Ooooo... Death by Powerpoint - You're just evil (but I do like the idea).

[Mr.P]

I've had mandatory appointments hand-written on the back of compliments slips before, contrary to DWP rules.

 

Surely, if the scrawled note does not include the phrase "If you do not attend without good cause, your benefits could be affected.", the the "appointment" can not be regarded as "mandatory".

 

I realise this is nit-picking and a dangerous course of action if anyone was to attempt to challenge it...

[Mr.P]

See the first page of www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/provider-minimum-service-delivery.pdf

Respect at all times and support to set your own goals

O.K. You ignore me, denigrate me, or treat me with contempt, then I reserve the right to reciprocate - Have recordings of open hostilities complete with threats and demonstrations of complete ignorance on file as a result. One adviser needing to run off to get his backside wiped, the last having a right royal hissy fit

[Mr.P]

Apparently, a sanction doubt may be generated for failing to attend any interview (be it face to face, email, electronic of telephone).

http://consent.me.uk/2013/03/27/sanctions/

 

Adds weight to the recommendation of only providing a name and address. If they do not have a phone number or email address, then any communication has to be posted or face to face where a written copy can be requested (and the conversation can be recorded).

[Mr.P]

You can always revoke a DPA waiver - I'm sure there are plenty of templates in this thread as it is a recurring topic.

 

Another point to consider: Take control of sending out your job applications so that you know the paperwork is honest and truthful. If the adviser declines to provide contact details for this "job opportunity", then start questioning his motives and honesty.

 

If you have any inkling of dubious practices, start recording all conversations and insist on copies of all paperwork.

[Mr.P]

all ingeus advisors sound corrupt and should start treating customers with more respect,

 

I don't think this view is limited to just Ingeus - Having had dealings with A4e and their dubious practices, I'd go as far as to say they are all rotten. LTBs anyone ?

 

There may be a few good advisers, but they lose credibility when put along side the rest.

 

My rules of engagement now are:

 

• No you can not have a DPA waiver.
  
• Staff will address me as Sir at ALL times.
  
• (when asked for personal information) Why do you need it and what will you do with the data ?
  
• ALL conversations WILL be recorded.
  
• Copies of ALL paperwork will be required.
  
• Before mandating any "course" or "activity", you will provide evidence that it meets the requirement of "tailored and personalised" support as defined in your customer charter and/or DWP contract.
  
• Client privacy and confidentiality will be protected at ALL times - Breaches will be reported at the highest level to the DWP.
  

 

I am somewhat desperate to get a paid job, and reading this site definately has prepared me for future interviews with my advisor. So I definately appreciate everyones input and experience. This was my first interview with Ingeus and so far I felt it went good, but I most sure will keep my eye on my advisor in future to see if his intentions are genuine or not.

 

The official DWP statistics published last year show that your chances of gaining employment whilst on the W.P. are seriously compromised - However, don't let that fact put you off. There are a few jobs out there, some better than others. Keep trying, and eventually you will find one worth doing.

[Mr.P]

[*]Client privacy and confidentiality will be protected at ALL times - Breaches will be reported at the highest level to the DWP.

 

On overhearing an "adviser" discussing another client's criminal record, I noted the names (on paper), and lodged a complaint with the JCP+ and my MP. Judging by the hostile attitude of my alleged "adviser" at the next meeting, the s*** hit the fan big time

[Mr.P]

So my Ingeus advisor has given me a leaflet regarding a jobs event in Liverpool, on the 18th April to attend to. He stated that I had to go, but I want to know - is it really mandatory for me to attend? He even has made an appointment for me to see him 2 days before this event, so he can tell me all about it.

 

If it is in writing along with the appropriate phrase about "your benefits could be affected yadda yadda", then you probably do need to go to this "event". However, I would use the earlier appointment to persuade your "adviser" to stump up any travel costs to this event.

[Mr.P]

I have now been mandated to fill in one of their job search forms - 20 cold calls and apply for 5 jobs. Should I do this?

I know not to fill in the names and addresses of employers, but my Job Centre Agreement says I should apply for 2 jobs, no mention of cold calling....

I have read the answer before in this forum, but can't remember the replies. If someone could direct me I would be grateful.

 

The JCP+ is the only ones that can modify your JSAg (with your approval). However, the DWP letter mandating you on to the WP uses the phrase "you must do what ever the provider tells you" - A point that I would vehemently argue with as it implies you could be coerced in to illegal or fraudulent activities - With that in mind, you may well find yourself on the receiving end of a sanction if you do not comply..

 

From the perspective of a potential employer (yes, I was on the receiving end of cold calls and speculative letters), all you will achieve is annoying local companies. If you must cold call, pick on companies you wouldn't want to work for and use the drone's phone to do it. You can also ring up the Ingeus HR department on 0207 265 3055

Edited June 30, 2013 by citizenB

[Mr.P]

Anyway, as a result of further arguing I have an appointment to try and get my JSAg changed.

 

On one occasion, a JCP+ adviser asked me questions like "Do you have internet at home ?", "How many times a week do you use the internet ?", "Do you search X, Y, Z web sites for jobs ?"... Ended up having "Daily internet searches and using X, Y, Z, & Meh sites and email N companies" added to my JSAg. Lesson learnt: Never answer leading questions that result in unacceptable terms.

 

Next time I had to draw up a JSAg (after a resign), I got to dictate the absolute minimum and avoided any/all questions about internet, email, or computers (Hey, I'm unemployed and fick. Wot do I no 'bout 'puters).

Edited April 10, 2013 by Mr.P

[Mr.P]

Good for you! I'm thinking of becoming Amish, then I won't have to use any technology anymore..trouble is, some technology actually IS useful!!

 

For a religious group that eschews technology, they have one hell of a web presence and make great use of CNC machine tools. Side note: Waiting for a bank to open one morning in Shipshewana, I had to smirk as a young girl in full Amish dress made her way down the high street. On rollerblades and listening to her walkman

Edited April 11, 2013 by Mr.P
No axe to grind.

[Mr.P]

[...]was put straight on PCs by the receptionist

 

Errmm.. A lowly receptionist has neither the authority or the powers to mandate anyone to do a job search or anything else. If it happens again, decline the "invite" and insist on seeing the "adviser" as per appointment.

[Mr.P]

What do you think will happen, apart from the usual statement of it being too early to judge balony!

 

"The figures show that we have exceeded expectations and have done better than our competitors."

 

Translation: The target was set so low so that even one short term placement is seen as a success. Our competitors suck too, but we have a better PR department to spin the numbers.

[Mr.P]

Was the instruction given in writing, or was it just verbal ?

If the latter, then I'd have probably declined using a phrase along the lines of "please explain why you think this activity is appropriate to my needs". Being careful not to make it sound like an outright refusal... If the instruction had been given in writing, then it may be possible that a sanction is in the pipeline, in which case, study the wording and appeal. If it was verbal, and the net result was just an annoyed "adviser", an enforcible sanction is unlikely.

 

As for returning to the office, I suppose it would enable them to update timesheets to say X number of hours had been spent on a (pointless) activity and justify the refund of travel expenses.

[Mr.P]

what do you mean update time sheets? Do you mean it is to make it look like they've done something to help you of something like that?

 

Exactly what I meant - They have to show that they are doing something in order to justify the money being wasted. Sending the poor conscripts out on the street to shove letters through doors saves heating the office and cuts down on buying stamps.

 

May also be a reason why we are seeing very little post from Ingeus at work - Last year, it used to be great piles of bin fodder on a daily basis, now, just a handful each week.

[Mr.P]

Getting fed up with the lack of support or being dumped on another pointless course so that you can find out the best way to fold a sheet of toilet paper ?

 

Contact your local council - Many run a training department and provide courses at a discounted rate for the unemployed. My council ran a few "employability training" courses, pretty inane two/three hour sessions on CV and cover letter writing. However, the incentive was access to real courses at a discounted rate, for example, a three day First Aid at Work course for £10.

 

Doing the FA@W course didn't help me find a job, but it was something else to put on the JCP diary and say I funded/did this without the "help" of pimpo. If you can find any free/cheap council run courses, it also gives you reason to stick a finger up at WP "courses".

[Mr.P]

If they can't tell you what the "course" entails, how can you/they judge that it is appropriate to your circumstances or needs ?

 

As you are so close to the exit, make 'em squirm and justify their mandatory "course" in writing.

[Mr.P]

Mine always act and talk like it's the jobseekers fault that they are seeking a job, but it's a familiar attitude as many pimps I have experience of try to blame me for anything and everything

 

Wait until you make a complaint against the drone - I did, and got told it was my fault for not fully engaging with the "adviser".. Right... My fault that he spent most of his time either mumbling or ignoring me... Or was it the red pen I used to highlight is grammatical, spelling, and punctuation errors...

Edited June 30, 2013 by citizenB

[Mr.P]

I read it as: snidey [ˈsnaɪdɪ] (of a remark, etc.) maliciously derogatory; supercilious.

 

An alternative reason for the cancellation - No money to pay for room/tutor/expenses...

[Mr.P]

Well I am now been blackmailed by Ingeus, Emailed my support worker last month with a few questions, this was the reply:

 

I had a "We are a private company and do not fund training. However, if you apply for a job and get accepted on the proviso of gaining the relevant qualification, we will reconsider funding."

 

"O.K. I have negotiated a heavily discounted fee of £10 for a first aid course, will you pay for it and travel expenses ?"

 

"NO".

 

At least you had an indicator that Ingeus might pay for an SIA license, even if it did have strings attached.

[Mr.P]

Just tried their recruitment page and went to search for vacancies in *this area. Clicked on a dropdown menu and a login box pops up. Looking at the recruitment page, it states "you will first need to register. To do this, find the vacancy you are interested in and then click on the 'Apply' button." - To find a vacancy, you have to log in, how can you "register" via a "click on apply" if you have to log in first.... [edit]s!

 

As for ingeusworks.co.uk, isn't that an oxymoron ? (and yes, you do need a login ID & password).

 

edit: If you haven't signed a DPA waiver, one look at the Privacy_policy should be enough to put you off - They can track how long, and from where you've been using the site, along with a bunch of Big Brother stuff.

Edited April 21, 2013 by Mr.P