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Assaulted by a bouncer and bar manager


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Last night I was at a small Tsunami Relief fund raiser at a bar in Camden.

 

The night was organised by friends and most of the musicians there I am good friends with. And many other friends were there. I was in good company.

 

They set up a barrier around the pub along the pavement where people can drink and smoke outside.

 

After the gig this area was very crowded and I was talking to some people at the end of the barrier. I moved outside the barrier on the pavement but kept glass on the ground inside the barrier where no-one would knock it over. Occasionally I would drink from it. At one point when I drank from the glass the bouncer came over to me and told me I couldn't do that so I put my glass back down inside the barrier. I was happy and compliant.

 

From behind the bouncer grabs me in a headlock and drags me to the ground. I thought he was going to break my neck and it aches a bit today. He let go I think because people were complaining.

 

I think I have a case here as I had done nothing to provoke any use of force.

 

Where I don't think I have a case is in what happened later.

 

I had lost my phone (uninsured blackberry), possibly from when I was headlocked (though i don't think so).

 

I asked the manager about my phone as he was putting away the barriers. He said something quite threatening to me and I pushed him against the wall. Where upon the same bouncer came along and drags me to the street and holds me down while the manager punches me repeatedly in the face. I have a few bruises and cuts from this.

 

I have witnesses nad I think I'm gonna do a FOI on the CCTV.

 

What do people think about my case? I'm quite unsure how to proceed.

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Welcome to the site.

Your actions against the bar manager could itself be seen as assault,but the retaliation was not really proportionate,and certainly goes against how he would be expected to deal.

There should be a report logged by the bar-as is the requirements these days.

First thing I think you need to be doing is file a complaint with your Council licensing section.

Was the bouncer displaying a badge ?

They are expected to follow industry codes of conduct-your licensing officer can tell you what options are open.

You say you are going to do a FOI request for the CCTV footage-do you mean a subject access request ?

Cameras and recording equipment in and around the bar will be under management of the site,others in the vicinity are likely controlled by the Council/Police.

You need to find out who operates them and dont leave it too long to get your request in.

If the bar is part of a chain,you should also consider filing a complaint to their HO.

Theres also the option of reporting this to the Police,the Council licensing section are likely to want to see that you have done this before they undertake their own enquiries.

If the Police investigate,they will no doubt want to view any available footage of the incident anyway.

Keep us posted in the meantime.

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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thanks martin.

 

the bouncer had a yellow armband but i did not notice any id/badge info on it.

 

i will go into the local police station tomorrow and file the complaint with them first. then do it with the council licensing section.

 

then i'll do the subject access request. is there any danger the bar will destroy/lose the CCTV footage when I put in my request?

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I think the Police/Council will want to see the footage.

With more use of HDs now its unlikely they would have any defence on wiping it so soon-there is a requirement to keep it,usually for licenced premises the Police want 28 days.

I did a stickie which is in the general consumer issues forum-it gives some info on CCTV and the DPA.

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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Ok.Just remember though,they have up to 40 days to comply.

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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ok, just been to the doctors to check on my injuries and i guess gather evidence. they told me to call back tomorrow and i would be seen during the day. i have a fractured rib as well it seems.

 

so once i have done that i'm going to go down to the police station.

 

question, should i just be looking at the assault where i was headlocked, or should i complain about everything that happened - even if it may be seen that i provoked the secondary attack?

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You should tell everything as it happened.

There will be statements taken from others,if you try to leave out things,it will not be very credible for you-as things will come out anyway.

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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makes sense.

 

i should have at least 2 witnesses of the unprovoked headlock + CCTV, but I'm pretty sure the second attack I was dragged out of sight from the cameras. and no witnesses. so ithink all the evidence i'll have for that part is my injuries.

 

thank you for your help so far. i will keep this thread updated.

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Ok look forward to it.

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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As a ten year veteran on the doors first let me say that we arent all like this, and Im saddened by this incident.

 

Ok legalities, first off the yellow armband will (well I say will, SHOULD) have held the door supervisors licence to work.

It will display a photo, his first initial and last name, 16 digit licence number and expiry date of the licence.

 

You do not have a legal right to demand the details of this licence. Only licencing, police and customs can do that.

 

However, the interesting loophole here is that the SIA regs (Im not going to bother cutting and pasting them, I assure you I know what Im talking about as I hold the Door supervisor and CCTV licences myself)

state clearly that the operative has to clearly display his licence at all times whilst working. This means you have every right to walk up and look and take down details from the licence and theres tiddly squat he can about it. other than going inside away from you that is.

 

its an odd one I know, but its true.

 

the cctv will probably conveniently be 'broken' or 'missing' so youre best bet is doing your subject access request through the council of the cameras on the street.

 

Now as for the use of force, I would make a comlaint to the police, but ensure you have your medical evidence of injuries readlily available so it isnt taken as a common assault which often is brushed under the carpet. from what you describe it sounds more like ABH, maybe even borderline GBH.

 

Writing to the company that run the actual place where the incident took place is probably a good move, to at least make them aware of the incident as since the manager is clearly in the wrong here, he probably wont have reported it.

 

I would also attempt to find out which security firm works on the door at these premises as night clubs etc rarely, if ever, employ doorstaff in house, for this exact reason. Plausible deniability.

 

Then I would attempt to contact the SIA (WWW.THE-SIA.ORG.UK) to make a complaint about a licensed operative.

 

Lastly, I would attempt to gether your witness details and statements to keep a copy for yourself, because you never know whether the police will take a complaint seriously or not, bearing in mind (rightly or wrongly) you admit pushing the manager first. I make no judgement of the level of blame, but I would certainly act to defend a manager who had just been been shoved by a customer but I certainly do not believe it it remotely reasonable or acceptable for them to then act the way they did towards you.

 

I hope this helps, as I feel that some measure of trust needs to be restored that not all doorstaff are mindless thugs.

 

Please keep us updated on how this pains out, Ill be taking a personal interest in this one.

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Good info hhh

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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thanks for the info hhh. i have known a few bouncers as friends and a few landlords and bar staff though never worked in a pub myself. strangely i'm selling micro breweries to free houses as one of my jobs at the moment. so i know this shouldn't happen but it does happen a fair amount. someone has told me they overheard the bouncer saying to the manager that i needed to be "taught a lesson". that is the language of someone who believes violence solves problems.

 

the place was a pub. it so happen a friend knows the owner who also owns a few other pubs. apparently he is nice guy. should i email him? if so what should the email contain?

 

do i need to identify the bouncer? or will the police do that?

 

i have just got back from the doctors. she is typing up a report of my bruises and fractured rib. that she will provide to police/solicitor.

 

apparently it is best to see the police before going to the doctors because they can take pictures of the injuries. so the doc told me.

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The police will have a specialist photographer who will arrange to take pictures of your injuries. (When i was slashed across the face by a stiletto heel it was arranged so he could come and take pictures and provide measurements of injuries)

 

As for contacting the owner of the pub, I wouldnt like to encourage you either way as I dont know the guy myself. Experience tells me that we would just blame it on the external door firm, but if his manager was involved then that would drag the actual club itself in as well.

 

Hmm. I think that the police investigation/complaint should be sorted first, the club owner will hear of it soon enough.

 

I would think twice about going to identify the door supervisor in question.Im not saying dont do it, but certainly dont put yourself in a position where you could potentially be seen as inflaming the situation by appearing to reignite the initial incident. I am sure that you could arrange to be some distance away and ask a friend or someone to acquire the details you require after identifying the indivual involved.

What youll need to conside is how you going back to the same person after the incident could be misconstrued by a court. Ive seen it happen where someone approached a former colleague to apologise for a misunderstanding, only to be arrested for public order because the police thought he was attempting to restart the confrontation.

 

As for the alleged 'needing to be taught a lesson' after what you have described I have no doubt at all that the door supervisor would say such a thing, but hearing hes said it, and proving hes said are two seperate entities. Personally, I would chase the police, no matter how reluctant they may seem, and ensure there is an active investigation carried out, co operate with any photos and injury assessments that need to be done, but ensure you have representation by a solicitor, or that your solicitor has agreed to the assessment before you agree to anything.

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Ok lets have a stab at this.

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

SUBJECT ACCESS REQUEST - DATA PROTECTION ACT 1998 & FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT 2000

 

I write to request footage and data of myself that may be held by yourself of an incident on xxxxx street at the xxxxxx bar at approx xxxx pm on xxxx date.

 

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know as soon as possible at the above address.

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.

 

Yours sincerely

 

xxxxxxx

 

 

 

Thats pretty much the letter that I wrote when requesting footage from tameside council so it should serve your purpose. If anyone has a better one or can improve mine then feel free.

Edited by hhh_88873
SPELLING ERROR
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hhh thank you loads for the SAR! Also all the info you've provided is really appreciated. I'm relieved there are guys like you out there. I don't hold a grudge against bouncers in general. They are needed and do a very dangerous (and sometimes boring) job. I often make a point of chatting with bouncers to make sure they know who i am and that i'm not a threat. In fact I did try and socialise with this guy earlier on in the evening but he was instantly and rudely dismissive of me, which should have been a warning I guess.

 

I'm quite busy with work for the rest of the day but I reckon I'll be sending out the SAR to the council and to the pub tomorrow. I want to mull things over tonight. I'm also gonna get the GP to send me a copy of her diagnosis. And I have zero interest in going back to the place to identify the guy.

 

Do I get a solicitor through the police when I make the complaint?

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No I highly doubt that you can use a duty solicitor to press a case, the burden would be on you to seek a solicitor and pursue the case. I imagine there must be a couple of firms that will take a look at it. You should defo get at least a free half hour consultation to discuss your case.

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As regards the SAR,they can refuse if the info is not specific.

With CCTV images/recordings,they are likely to ask for a description of clothing worn ie style/colour etc.

And a brief description of the subject-ie male white 5"8" medium build.

Also specify what format you want it supplied on-although we know disc is pref-this avoids stalling since this should be clear in the request.

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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Just thought I would mention-in my town,the Police frequently do walkabouts and if they cannot see a doormans badge,will make him move it from his waist to the upper chest area.

Of course-they move it back once the Police have gone=I see this every weekend.

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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Precisely why mine is contained in a silver hi vis armband on my arm. That and the fact its less likely to get torn off in an altercation there. I lost one years back that was clipped to my waist. Fotrunately I didnt have to pay foe the replacement.

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Right been to the police station today and made the report. Though I didn't sign anything yet. I have my crime number and apparently the cops are going to investigate. I haven't sent off my SARs yet... tomorrow.

 

I told everything as I remembered, as noted at the top of this thread. You get asked all sorts of questions I was ready for.

 

- Why has it taken you this long to report it to the police?

I was in shock (!), i was figuring out what to do, i went to the doctors to be diagnosed and I have had work to do. This went down OK with the nice woman behind the counter.

- How much had you drunk? Over how long?

Less than 5 pints over 4 to 5 hours. I felt in control. (she added that bit but I guess that's what I was trying to say)

 

I said I pushed the assumed Manager against the wall and it made it clear that this was after the initial incident with the bouncer and that the manager had just verbally abused me.

 

I am feeling that this is gonna go the way where the CCTV footage is lost or whatever. So I think this could pan out many ways.

I will call the Criminal Inuuries Compensation Authority tomorrow and see about that solicitor and legal aid. I've been told the Citizens Advice Bureau can help with that.

 

So that's where I'm at.

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Ok thanks for the update.

You seem to have things in hand,and the questions the Police asked are nothing out of the ordinary.

Theres no shortage of no win no fee outfits out there who will be looking for your business,but with homework and good prep and supporting stuff,theres no reason why you cant run this yourself in the small claims court if you feel there is a case-there will be many here to help you do that,and recover costs in the process-thats what this site does best.8-)

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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Yes no need for lining solicitors pockets-why pay them for something you can do yourself.

It is a sore subject with me TBH-I have seen them jumping on the bandwagon with bank charges,CCA claims and PPI.

Its no secret that the ambulance chasing no wi no fee outfits have been damaging for consumers and individuals,as Judges have become fed up with the exploitation.

You are ok for up to 5k in small claims and thats without costs.

My view at the moment based on what you have said,is that there is a good chance that you could get a settlement before any Court action if you play it right.

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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Just for gods sake, in the name of all thats holy dont go charging in demanding a settlement.

 

Seriously, let the wheels of justice turn cos even if theres no conviction of the door supervisor thats involved, an arrest that relates to the incident will make things a lot easier.

 

Let them (ie police & cps) do the leg work for you to start with, cos that way youll be setting off from much firmer ground.

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