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    • Post in Suing a parcel delivery company when you don't have a direct contract with them – third-party rights Copy of judgment available

      BankFodder posted a post in a topic,

      We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Parcel delivery insurance is prohibited under section 57 – Consumer Rights Act – Read about It Here and in The Times.

Yorkshire Bank Charges crunch time

TvTan
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TvTan

TvTan

Posted
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Hi, have been reading Bankfodder's request regards claims against YB and have copied the pertinent parts of my thread over at PC. Any advice would be much appreciated, received latest letter Friday.

 

1. April 2007. Sent Letter asking for statements.

 

2. Statements not received. Complaint to ICO.

 

3. Statements arrive June 1. Separate claims for Charges and PPI. LBA and PPI letters sent.

 

4. Filed in court beginning July 2007. Acknowledgement received 3 weeks later.

 

5. 16th August. Case Stayed.

 

6. Feb 2008 - Letter received from Solicitors acting on behalf of YB chasing outstanding amount of £****.

 

I called them and informed debt was in dispute and I had written to YB stating that using the template letter from PC.

 

I was informed by the operator, then the call centre supervisor that YB had said that as the test case had still not been decided that this was not a valid dispute and I had to make an offer to pay else they would instigate legal proceedings.

 

I quoted the letter that I had written previously, and she basically said I wasn't listening and I HAD to make an arrangement to pay.

 

7. Feb 2008 - Second letter received from YB as well as a collections firm. state that they will be commencing County Court action.

 

YB also state that they are aware that whilst the test case is still undecided they will be pursuing payment of any monies. To quote:

 

'To clarify further, any investigation and refund is suspended pending the High Court charges 'Test Case' decision. On this basis recovery action will continue until a repayment arrangement has been made. Therefore, I would recommend that you contact this office on the above telephone number immediately to discuss your interim proposals.'

 

They have then attached a couple of pages of Q & A's explaining the banks position and explains that "The FSA decided that, in the circumstances it was appropriate to grant us a suspension of our obligations under the FSA's complaint handling rules while we seek legal certainty on this issue."

 

8. March 2008 - Another letter from the collections firm. Complaint put into Trading Standards regards harassment as debt is in dispute.

 

9. April 2008 - YB Customer Services letter that explains whilst they are sorry for any distress that there automated system has caused by sending out letters.

 

They flatly deny recieving letters (although I have signed for reciepts and confirmation from Royal Mail) and they go on to say that this is not considered a debt in banking terms and so therefore I have to make a repayment.

 

Sent reciepts etc and re-iterated the points I have made previously, have updated Trading Standards.

 

10. Another (different firm) collections agency write this time (Suspiciously all have the same address as YB? Updated Trading Standards.

 

11. October 2008 - Trading Standards indicate they have been in touch with YB and I should get no more letters.

 

12. October 2008 - Letter received from Claim submitted against me at Northampton County Court!! They are asking for the amount outstanding when I put my account into dispute. I have a claim at another court (as above) for twice this amount.

 

13. Submitted defence. Case stayed.

 

14. Feb 2010 - Received a letter from YB's Solicitors stating that The Court (referring to the OFT test case) has ruled in favour of their client and as a gesture of good will their client is willing to accept *** amount as full and final settlement!! I have 14 days to confirm acceptance

 

15. A few days later I received a letter stating that they have withdrawn the offer made two days ago and are now contacting the court to finish things off.

 

16. Friday 12th March - Received letter from YB's solicitors stating:

 

With reference to our letter dated XXXX, to which we have not recieved a reply.

 

In view of the outcome of the OFT case my client is now within their rights to request that the court remove the stay and list the matter for a Small Claims Hearing.

 

My clients instruction are to proceed with the above, however to save further time and costs to both parties my client is willing to extend the time for a settlement to be reached until XXXX.

 

If no contact is received from you by this date an application to the court will be made without further notice.

 

Thats the whole thing in a nutshell. Didn't quite realise how long this has been dragging on!!

 

Many thanks for any help that any one can offer.

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TvTan

TvTan

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Hi all,

 

Had a long hard think about this, lots of positive news and info on the site, so I have decided that I am going to request that the court lifts the stay, and that I am allowed to argue my case properly. Looking back through all the correspondence I have had has stirred me up quite a lot, certainly not going to lie down and take this, there is no way that these institutions should be able to get away with this!!

 

Fingers crossed!!

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  • 2 weeks later...
TvTan

TvTan

Posted
  • Author
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Heard from the court that they have transferred my case to another court, looks like I may get to put my case to the Judge :D

 

Will update as soon as I get more info

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TvTan

TvTan

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Now I find after checking my credit report that I have to accounts on the report. one showing a default, one showing satisfactory, both for the same amount, both for the same account!!!

 

Phoned Eperian and they have advised me to take it up with the bank....this is going to be a fun phone call!!!!:???:

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  • 3 weeks later...
teaboy2

teaboy2

Posted
Posted

just letting you know that am subscribing to the your thread. i had similar issues with YB and their in house Solicitor's, only my reclaim for charges had not gone as far as court (YET). Plus i manged to fend of their solicitors that were claim over 240 quid from me despite it all being made up from charges.

 

so i am very interested in seeing how things turn out for you and wish you all the best of luck. Also you might want to take alook at the Sharpe v bank of scotland case that is set for june 11th.

 

heres a link to some details, Govan Law Centre: Sheriff puts Bank of Scotland to proof on bank charges

 

you might find their legal argument of benefit to your own reclaim on charges and defense against their claim against you.

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Always seek the advice of an insured qualified professional. All my legal and nonlegal knowledge comes from either here (CAG),my own personal research and experience and/or as the result of necessity as an Employer and Businessman.

 

By using my advice in any form, you agreed to waive all rights to hold myself or any persons representing myself of any liability.

 

If you PM me, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private. All PMs that are sent in missuse (including but not limited to phinishing, spam) of the PM application and/or PMs that are threatening or abusive will be reported to the Site Team and if necessary to the police and/or relevant Authority.

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  • 2 weeks later...
TvTan

TvTan

Posted
  • Author
Posted

....just got a letter back from the court, they have allocated time for a hearing to decide whether I am able to submit amended POC at the end of June.

 

Thanks for the link teaboy2, i'll have a look :-)

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teaboy2

teaboy2

Posted
Posted

they should allow you to change your POC's given the serious impact the outcome of the above linked too case would have on your claim if the banks were to lose, which it looks likely to do.

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Always seek the advice of an insured qualified professional. All my legal and nonlegal knowledge comes from either here (CAG),my own personal research and experience and/or as the result of necessity as an Employer and Businessman.

 

By using my advice in any form, you agreed to waive all rights to hold myself or any persons representing myself of any liability.

 

If you PM me, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private. All PMs that are sent in missuse (including but not limited to phinishing, spam) of the PM application and/or PMs that are threatening or abusive will be reported to the Site Team and if necessary to the police and/or relevant Authority.

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caro

caro

Posted
Posted

Good luck with this TvT.

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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  • 1 month later...
TvTan

TvTan

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Hi Ho :D Quick update, after 3 years I am finally allowed to have my say in front of the Judge. I'm in Court tomorrow to request that I am allowed to Submit new POC, not heard a thing from YB but suspecting an ambush ;)

 

Will update as soon as I am out, keep your fingers crossed.

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caro

caro

Posted
Posted

Fingers and everything else duly crossed.;)

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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teaboy2

teaboy2

Posted
Posted

glad the judge is allowing you to update the POC. Go get them! ;)

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Always seek the advice of an insured qualified professional. All my legal and nonlegal knowledge comes from either here (CAG),my own personal research and experience and/or as the result of necessity as an Employer and Businessman.

 

By using my advice in any form, you agreed to waive all rights to hold myself or any persons representing myself of any liability.

 

If you PM me, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private. All PMs that are sent in missuse (including but not limited to phinishing, spam) of the PM application and/or PMs that are threatening or abusive will be reported to the Site Team and if necessary to the police and/or relevant Authority.

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  • 2 months later...
teaboy2

teaboy2

Posted
Posted

I hope you get some news soon TvTan, i just got a letter from marlin their (YBank) debt collectors for £240 on an outstanding overdraft despite, me claiming back over £1200 on the same account. So looks like they just like passing on accounts in dispute in breach of OFT guidelines. Idiots expect me to pay back £240 when they owe me £1200, they can go run and jump first. lol

 

So id be very interested in how your claim turns out, along with the Sharpe v Bank of Scotland case in scotland.

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Always seek the advice of an insured qualified professional. All my legal and nonlegal knowledge comes from either here (CAG),my own personal research and experience and/or as the result of necessity as an Employer and Businessman.

 

By using my advice in any form, you agreed to waive all rights to hold myself or any persons representing myself of any liability.

 

If you PM me, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private. All PMs that are sent in missuse (including but not limited to phinishing, spam) of the PM application and/or PMs that are threatening or abusive will be reported to the Site Team and if necessary to the police and/or relevant Authority.

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  • 6 months later...
TvTan

TvTan

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Well, the wheels have finally started turning.....I have a court date, I believe I have a case, if any one would like to wade in with any advice re: the current situation, i would be very grateful!!

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caro

caro

Posted
Posted

I assume you submitted a new POC and YB have submitted a defence?

 

How long until your court date?

 

Can you please confirm this is for bank charges as I notice you've also mentioned PPI.

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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TvTan

TvTan

Posted
  • Author
Posted
I assume you submitted a new POC and YB have submitted a defence?

 

How long until your court date?

 

Can you please confirm this is for bank charges as I notice you've also mentioned PPI.

 

Hi Caro,

 

Yes this is for Bank Charges Only. Amended POC submitted last year, have had no defence from YB, should I contact them? Hearing is around 6 weeks away.

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caro

caro

Posted
Posted

My gut feeling is that you should apply for summary judgement if they haven't defended, but if you do that and win I can imagine them applying for a set-aside which will drag things out even longer. Have you checked with the court to see if they've received a defence?

 

I'll try and get another opinion of this.

 

What exactly does it say on the letter from the court about the hearing?

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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TvTan

TvTan

Posted
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Hi Caro, thanks for the advice. No Defence has been received by the court as of today. The letter states:

 

TAKE NOTICE that the Hearing will take place on

 

DATE******** TIME ******

 

at (Name and address of court)

 

When you should attend.

 

Please Note: This case may be released to another judge, possibly at a different court.

 

And thats it.

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caro

caro

Posted
Posted

How long has been allocated?

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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TvTan

TvTan

Posted
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Posted

Hi Caro, it doesn't say anything about time allocated at all, entire letter produced verbatim apart from dates, court name etc, when I called the court they said it was very confusing on their system and she would have to go through to the Civil section and get clarification. Have to ring back on monday. Will let you know as soon as I hear.

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caro

caro

Posted
Posted

Thanks. I would have thought it would be allocated quite a lot of time but you need to know how much time you have to present your case so you can prepare accordingly.

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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  • 3 weeks later...
TvTan

TvTan

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Hi Caro,

 

Have just been on to the Court. 30 mins have been allocated, no defence received as yet. Will keep checking. Have quite a good handle on this, but would appreciate running through things if there is anyone who can help?

 

Cheers

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teaboy2

teaboy2

Posted
Posted

whens the last day that YB can submit their defense?

 

Only 3 weeks now till the big day isn't it?

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Always seek the advice of an insured qualified professional. All my legal and nonlegal knowledge comes from either here (CAG),my own personal research and experience and/or as the result of necessity as an Employer and Businessman.

 

By using my advice in any form, you agreed to waive all rights to hold myself or any persons representing myself of any liability.

 

If you PM me, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private. All PMs that are sent in missuse (including but not limited to phinishing, spam) of the PM application and/or PMs that are threatening or abusive will be reported to the Site Team and if necessary to the police and/or relevant Authority.

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TvTan

TvTan

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Yep :-) not long now. YB should have submitted their defence within two weeks of me submitting my amended POC (which was quite a while ago) they haven't, in fact no contact at all from them, will point this out to the court :-)

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