5 Year Australian Debt being chased in the UK

[cerberusalert]

Stevensdrake in Crawley

[cerberusalert]

Or are they trying to bypass the Australian courts and go directly to the UK courts?

Yes they are chancing their arm.

[William415]

Yes they are chancing their arm.

 

Great. I guess I can expect one of these soon.

 

I have gone ahead and disputed the debt with the Australian Ombudsman, in the hope that by the time it gets to Steven Drake, I can answer the court here in the UK that the account is in dispute back in Australia. I doubt they'd agree to hear it under those circumstances.

 

Kinda fun making these cretins run around, chasing their tails...

 

W

[bobster316]

Thanks cerberusalert

[WA_Newman]

William. Credit Corp are a member of FOS (Financial Ombudsman Service) the online dispute form effectively puts the debt in dispute preventing Credit Corp from enforcing judgement in any court. FOS will contact you in the next week or two for further details of the dispute so start reading up. ASIC (www.asic.gov.au) are now the sole regulator for credit card debt. Before Credit Corp can seek judgement it must have done the correct procedure.

 

Your FOS dispute allows you to throw the kitchen sink at Credit Corp. Dispute jurisdiction, validity of the consumer credit agreement, write to Credit Corp for copies all information they hold on you then complain to FOS that it hasn't been provided, inform FOS that no letter of Assignment has ever been received (assignment is only effective from the date it is received by the debtor) this means that Credit Corp are not entitled to make a claim against you, inform FOS that no Section 80 letter has ever been received (which means Credit Corp can't take court action), and anything else you can think of.

 

Until your dispute is resolved Credit Corp will be unable to progress any case against you. Unless Credit Corp has followed the correct procedure all action will be stayed.

 

Be sure to download FOS Terms of Reference to see how Credit Corp will be bound.

 

The icing on the cake is that Credit Corp will have to pay FOS to investigate it.

[WA_Newman]

I'm confused ... how could the Australian DCA (via their shark lawyers in the UK) submit a Court Claim unless there has been a prior court judgement against the debtor in Australia? Did I miss something?

 

Or are they trying to bypass the Australian courts and go directly to the UK courts?

 

Now I'm getting worried again, as this DCA is the same group of bandits that are chasing ME!

 

W

 

The DCA are not trying to enforce an Australian Judgment they are trying to get a UK court to enforce a contract under Australian Law.

[William415]

Thanks, WA_Newman.

 

Sounds like fun.

 

And thank you for correcting my mis-understanding regarding the Court Claim. This will be an intersting one to watch ... I'm wondering if the UK court will entertain the case.

 

I will write to Credt Corp demanding they disclose all information held about me. I assume I reference the Freedom of Information Act? Is there a letter template somehwere I can refer to? (I've done a Google search, and haven't yet found anything)

 

W

Edited August 20, 2010 by William415

[citizenB]

Thanks for the letter i should send. Do i send it to Credit Corp in Australia or to Stevensdrake in Crawley?

 

You need to send it to the Solicitor named on the Claim form.

[citizenB]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?254561-Australian-Debt-being-chased-in-the-UK-court-papers-received

 

There would appear to be a few others in your situation. Do you know what the statute of limitations is on Aussie debts ?

 

For UK debts, if no acknowledgement or payment have been made to the account then although the debt still remains, there is no legal recourse for the creditor. The debt becomes statute barred.

 

Check out if there is a similar law in australia.

 

Ok ignore the above, cerb has already covered the questions I have asked above .

Edited August 20, 2010 by citizenB

[citizenB]

Have you acknowledged the claim online ?

[cerberusalert]

Have a read through this sticky too http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?264126-Of-great-interest-to-those-overseas-who-are-being-sued-in-the-UK

[WA_Newman]

William,

 

There is no template as such. Just write to Credit Corp at their head office requesting all information it holds on you including, but not limited to, any contracts, any credit agreements, any statements, any correspondence, any personal data, any transcripts of telephone conversations, any assignments, any diary entries, any internal or external communication or notes, and any computerised data. It is your right under National Privacy Principle 6 of the Privacy Act.

 

National Privacy Principle 6 covers access by an individual to data held by an organisation.

 

6. Access and correction

 

6.1 If an organisation holds personal information about an individual, it must provide the individual with access to the information on request by the individual

 

Full information can be found at http://www.privacy.gov.au/materials/types/infosheets/view/6583#npp6

 

Have a read through all of the NNPs then email the Privacy Commissioner with details of all of the NPPs Credit Corp has breached. It is unlikely Credit Corp will provide you with the data you request, but the Privacy Commissioner usually gets the info. However, it can take months.

[William415]

WA_Newman, you are a STAR. Many thanks for the information. Online dispute with Ombudsman was lodged last night, and letter to Credit Corp will go out on Monday.

 

And I will be making a contribution to CAG for all of the helpful information and support. This site is awesome.

 

W

[WA_Newman]

William, don't forget to file a complaint with ASIC for breaches of their Debt Collectors Guidelines http://www.accc.gov.au/content/item.phtml?itemId=733222&nodeId=701ac447ba70f932e4deaeb83d6e0239&fn=Debt%20collection%20guideline%20reprint%202010.pdf

 

Also, with the Privacy Commissioner for breaches of the NPP and Privacy Act.

 

No English court is going to touch a case brought under Australian Law that is cleary in dispute.

 

Credit Corp is a members of FOS and has agreed to be bound by FOS rules and decisions. FOS is one of only two ombudsman services recognised by ASIC, who issue credit licences. Any debt collector that loses its membership of both ombudsman services loses its credit licence: game over.

[William415]

Bobster - Didn't mean to hijack your thread, mate. Do let us know how you get on with your situation. Let's you and me tie these chumps up in knots!

 

W

[bobster316]

I have filed a defence and have received paperwork from Court to complete an allocations questionnaire and return it to the Court office.

[ozzyboy]

With regard to Jurisdiction, it is possible that an Australian contract can be enforced in a UK court if the UK court is deemed to be the appropriate forum to hear the case. Given that the debtor is a UK resident, it could be argued that a UK court is the appropriate forum.

 

Regardless of Jurisdiction, any contract between an Australian financial institution and a (then) Australian resident, signed in Australia is subject to Australian Law.

 

A creditor would have to sue in a UK under Australian Law, which is not the easiest, or cheapest option.

 

As the alleged debt is covered under Australian Law, the creditor would need to be a member of an Australian financial ombudsman service (there are two: FOS and COSL).

 

Hi Newman,

 

I may have missed something in some of these posts, but bearing in mind that CC are not the Original Creditors but merely an agency, is there not also an issue of jurisdiction regarding an Australian DCA actively pursuing debts for a third party in the UK if they don't hold a UK Consumer Credit licence?

 

From reading the posts thus far, it seems as though CC are doing exactly what a UK DCA would be expected to do in similar circumstance, i.e. frequent communications with the "client" followed by threats of court action. The only difference being that a registered UK DCA would be entitled to carry out such actions whereas CC seems to be side-stepping such legal niceties by doing all this from overseas.

 

Fair enough if the OC was taking legal action in their own name or had assigned the debt to a UK agency (as in a reverse of the Pioneer scenario) but in this case that does not appear to have happened. Credit Corp are named as the claimant on the court papers.

 

I would also wonder if CC did have a UK licence, whether a debt first assigned to their Australian registered business could be re-assigned to the UK operation without falling foul of the cross-border data transfer legislation of the Australian Privacy Act. If the big banks can't transfer their clients' account information overseas, I'm sure that a piddly little DCA isn't allowed to do this either!

 

As a start, maybe someone can advise if Credit Corp has a licence to operate a debt collection business in the UK?

[William415]

Very interesting points, Ozzyboy. Hopefully someone with knowledge of such issues will be along soon to reply .. but in the meantime, seems like another item I can add to the kitchen sink that I'm currently throwing at Credit Corp.

 

W

[cerberusalert]

Name & Registered Office:

CREDITCORP LIMITED

10 ORANGE STREET

LONDON

WC2H 7DQ

Company No. 05210186

 

The above is registered at Companies House but is not licenced by the FSA nor is there any other Credit Corp registered. In order to collect debts in the UK they need to be licenced with the FSA.

[ozzyboy]

Oh dear.

Is that the distant sound of police sirens?

 

I wonder what will be happening at Stevensdrake's offices when this hits the fan.

 

Presumably they must have known that their antipodean client did not hold a licence to ply their nefarious trade on England's green and pleasant lands? Or did they just turn a legally blind eye to such a minor detail?

Edited September 2, 2010 by ozzyboy
Afterthought!

[cerberusalert]

In the UK, debt collection agencies are licensed and regulated by the Office of Fair Trading. The OFT sets guidelines on how debt collection agencies can operate and lists examples of unfair practices. These guidelines are not law, but do represent a summary and interpretation of various legal areas. Compliance with these guidelines is also used as a test of whether the agency is considered fit to hold a credit license.

 

Examples of unfair practices include misrepresenting enforcement powers (e.g. claiming that property may be seized), falsely claiming to be acting in an official capacity, harassment, claiming unenforceable or excessive charges, misrepresenting the legal position to a debtor), and falsely claiming that a court judgement has been obtained when it has not. The legal basis for these practices comes from section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970.

 

Collection agencies in the UK should not be confused with court-appointed bailiffs.

[WA_Newman]

Hi Newman,

 

I may have missed something in some of these posts, but bearing in mind that CC are not the Original Creditors but merely an agency, is there not also an issue of jurisdiction regarding an Australian DCA actively pursuing debts for a third party in the UK if they don't hold a UK Consumer Credit licence?

 

From reading the posts thus far, it seems as though CC are doing exactly what a UK DCA would be expected to do in similar circumstance, i.e. frequent communications with the "client" followed by threats of court action. The only difference being that a registered UK DCA would be entitled to carry out such actions whereas CC seems to be side-stepping such legal niceties by doing all this from overseas.

 

Fair enough if the OC was taking legal action in their own name or had assigned the debt to a UK agency (as in a reverse of the Pioneer scenario) but in this case that does not appear to have happened. Credit Corp are named as the claimant on the court papers.

 

I would also wonder if CC did have a UK licence, whether a debt first assigned to their Australian registered business could be re-assigned to the UK operation without falling foul of the cross-border data transfer legislation of the Australian Privacy Act. If the big banks can't transfer their clients' account information overseas, I'm sure that a piddly little DCA isn't allowed to do this either!

 

As a start, maybe someone can advise if Credit Corp has a licence to operate a debt collection business in the UK?

 

CreditCorp are not the original creditors. Before we can consider jurisdiction and entitlement to enforce a debt through the UK court system, we have to consider assignment.

 

In summary, if CreditCorp bought the debt from the OC then they effectively become the OC. Once the debtor receives a correct Notice of Assignment, the assignment becomes "absolute". Once the assignment is absolute, the assignee can commence proceedings to recover the debt through the courts providing it meets all of the other requirements of court action, and the requirements of the OC.

 

Assuming that CreditCorp has bought the debt and correctly delivered the Notice of Assignment, CreditCorp is now the original creditor. Now, assuming CreditCorp has provided all of the documentation to the debtor, and fulfilled all requirements under the the Australian UCCC and UK civil procedures it could sue the debtor and ask the appropriate County Court to enforce the debt under Australian Law.

 

Alternatively, if CreditCorp failed to deliver a correctly worded Notice of Assignment then the assignment would only be a beneficial assignment and CreditCorp would not be the OC. CreditCorp would be entitled to request leave of the court for the OC to join in the action against the debtor.

 

Check out my other posts for more details and case law on assignment.

 

Alternatively, a debtor could simply dispute the debt with Credit Corp then file a dispute with the Australian FOS who would bar CredirCorp from any further collection activity until the dispute had been resolved. The Australian UCCC is not as comprehensive as the CCA but is similar in that if a creditor fails at even one hurdle, the case fails. I have a lawyer friend who used to work on the dark side. Over 90% of cases where a debtor defended the action, it failed because of insufficient or incomplete paperwork.

[wamosch]

i would really like to see the letter how do i pm you?i am that desparate

[cerberusalert]

i would really like to see the letter how do i pm you?i am that desparate

Which letter?

[cerberusalert]

i would really like to see the letter how do i pm you?i am that desparate

Having gone through the thread I assume you are referring to the 'Prove It' letter, send them this; http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?428-General-debt-letter-if-you-know-nothing-of-the-debt