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    • Post in Suing a parcel delivery company when you don't have a direct contract with them – third-party rights Copy of judgment available

      BankFodder posted a post in a topic,

      We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Parcel delivery insurance is prohibited under section 57 – Consumer Rights Act – Read about It Here and in The Times.

Growing HSBC Managed Loan Advice

djwigster

By djwigster
in HSBC Bank

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johnnymitch

johnnymitch

Posted
Posted

Hi DJW, welcome to the forum :)

 

Well , you have a number of issues to address there - but the first I think should be obtaining copies of the agreements and as you suggest, posting them on here for advice .

 

Until you have that you have to really just hold on , but do a bit of reading round the threads on this site , so you can get an idea of how to proceed ..........

 

You are right of course , the Bank should not have been lending further on Managed Loans - these are supposed to be a short-term measure to help someone through a temporary difficulty and are supposed to be reviwed periodically to see if they can be re-structured to the customers benefit - not the banks coffers........ but as far as I know it's not illegal - IMHO it's unethical and unprofessional , but that's the banks all over these days .

 

It could be that a complaint to the Financial Ombudsman may bear fruit , if they consider the increase of the Loan to be irresponsible and unethical , here is the link if you want to try from that angle as well :

 

Financial Ombudsman Service

 

 

As regards the Bailiffs - this forum may help you with that :

 

Bailiffs and Sheriff Officers - The Consumer Forums

 

it's got a lot of useful info on what Bailiffs can and cant do ........

 

By all means come back and ask if you need further assistance - someone will answer - and we're user-friendly on here ..... :D

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johnnymitch

johnnymitch

Posted
Posted

Well done djw , keep 'em on the back foot - they're trying to get away with this garbage too often these days...... :)

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Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

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  • 5 weeks later...
johnnymitch

johnnymitch

Posted
Posted

Hi djw,

 

It doesn't matter when they 'accept it for processing ' (cheeky beggars!) ...:rolleyes:... If you have the date they signed for it , or allow 2 days for first class post to arrive ... then the 40 day clock starts ticking from there ....

 

So, stick to your timetable not theirs ..... :)

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Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

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  • 4 weeks later...
johnnymitch

johnnymitch

Posted
Posted (edited)

It seems to be all there djw ......

 

But there would appear to be a discrepance in the calculation of repayments ...

 

144 x £219 = £31536

 

The amount they said it was costing you was :

 

16820.00

+ 14643.25

= 31463.25

 

I suspect the final payment should have been something other than £219.00,to make the sum right it should have been £147.25 ...but it's their mistake I reckon ..

 

This would make an overcalculation of £62.75 ...... I believe ANY discrepancy should render this account unenforceable ..... which doesn't mean it goes away , but they can't chase you for it.... you can pay it at your leisure .....

 

perhaps someone else would like to check my calcs on this and confirm my reasoning on the unenforceability aspect ..... I know it's somewhere on the forum , just can't find it at the moment ....... :)

Edited by johnnymitch
Afterthought .......

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Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

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johnnymitch

johnnymitch

Posted
Posted

Ah ! have a look at atwozee's thread on thjis djw .... this may help you see what I was getting at ... :

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/182515-hsbc-managed-loan-cca.html#post1968721

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Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

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johnnymitch

johnnymitch

Posted
Posted

I wouldn't think so , after all they don't know you've spotted the apparent discrepancy yet .........:rolleyes::)

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Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

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johnnymitch

johnnymitch

Posted
Posted

I think they're waffling a bit on this to be honest , djw , but I'm not absolutely sure ..... have another look at atwozee's post on here ..... it may clarify it in your mind ... maybe you need to ask them to give you a detailed breakdown ......

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/182515-hsbc-managed-loan-cca.html#post1968797

 

I still think if the figures don't tally ...... it's unenforceable .....

 

Ah , here we are .... atwozeeagain .....

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/190821-hsbc-does-incorrect-unenforceable.html#post2062528

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Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

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johnnymitch

johnnymitch

Posted
Posted

I can't see that it would do any harm djw ...... they're playing the silly card and waffling ..... the facts as I see them is that , if the loan is before April 07 , and it is incorrect by even a small amount ... then it is unenforceable ...... I can't see them going to court with it ... because IMHO the court's hands are tied by the law at the time ......

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Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

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johnnymitch

johnnymitch

Posted
Posted

I think it's obvious already that the account is 'In Dispute' djw.....

 

I'd just send the above letter and see what they come back with ..... you could head it 'Formal Complaint ' if you like ..... what you should get iis a 'Final decision ' from them saying they will not argue any further - that they are right (in their judgement) ...... then you can take it to FOS , having exhausted all avenues with the bank (as you're supposed to do before involving FOS.).......

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Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

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johnnymitch

johnnymitch

Posted
Posted

They may try to duck out of the PPI issue djw,on the grounds that it's a 'separate' part of the company (i.e. the insurance branch) which deals with it ......... so that you have to do another SAR to them ..

 

Have a look at the PPI forum on here - start a thread on there and ask if you're in doubt , there's a lot of wise heads on there ..... :)

 

Payment Protection Insurance (PPI) - The Consumer Forums

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Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

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johnnymitch

johnnymitch

Posted
Posted

Sorry ..... I know 'em too well djw :rolleyes:

 

but don't let them off the hook ..... it'll be worth an extra tenner to stuff 'em ........LOL! :D

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Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

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  • 2 months later...
johnnymitch

johnnymitch

Posted
Posted
HSBCs' business model is akin to being licked by a puppy whilst it excitedly pees on your new shoes.

 

Unfortunately , IMHO it's a lot more sinister than that ...... more like smiling to the Financial watchdogs ... while gripping you tightly by the throat !!!!

 

:eek:

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Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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  • 1 month later...
johnnymitch

johnnymitch

Posted
Posted

Oh boy djw , :)

 

Guard this letter with your life..... make and keep copies in case you lose it ... this is their admission that the figures don't add up .... and 72.75 is not a 'minor error ' as they put it ..... it's yawning gap .... and makes the agreement unenforceable ......

 

There is a letter somewhere (which i can't find at the moment ,) where a judge has said that it doesn't matter how far it's out .... if it doesn't agree then it falls foul of the Consumer Credit Act ..... maybe someone else on here can produce it for you ....

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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johnnymitch

johnnymitch

Posted
Posted (edited)

Ah ! found it DJW ..........:) atwozee's brilliant letter .....

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/190821-hsbc-does-incorrect-unenforceable-2.html#post2071656

 

In fact ,that whole thread is worth your time to read it ...... shows what may be further down the line for you and how to deal with it ....

Edited by johnnymitch

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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