Unenforceable CA's. Reply Capital One - Help?

[Yantoe]

Hi, I wrote to all my creditors on the 1st June requesting copy CA's this is my first reply back dated 5th June from Capital One:

 

Thank you for your recent letter requesting copy documents for your account.

 

Your requested copies of the executed credit agreement and a statement of your account under section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

Please find enclosed a copy of your credit agreement as requested. In accordance with section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copy Documents) Regulations 1983, this is your original agreement, and if any terms have been varied, then the copy agreement will include the updated terms. In addition, your personal details, the signature box, signature and date of signature have been omitted from the copy provided as permitted under Regulation 3 of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copy Documents) Regulations 1983.

 

The status of your account, as at date of this letter is currently open and behind with payments.

 

Your current outstanding balance at the date of this letter is XXXXX

 

The next payment due on your account (including any arrears or overlimit amount) is XXXX. This amount needs to reach the account by 15th June 2009.

 

As your account has variable interest rates which may change from time to time. I am unable to provide you with a specific schedule of payments detailing the amount due each month in order to pay the current outstanding balance in full. However the minimum monthly payment will be 3% of the outstanding balance or £5, whichever is greater. Your statements will be produced on the 20th of each month (subject to this date not falling on a weekend or bank holiday) and a minimum monthly payment will be due to the account within 26 days of the statement date.

I trust this information will help you with your enquiries. If you need any further information, please contact us again.

 

 

Also enclosed is a leaflet entitled 'Important information about your Capital One credit card' This is a copy of your agreement to keep. It is a terms & conditions doc. Plus a letterheaded A4 page titled 'Terms of your Capital One Credit Card Agreement' which shows my name and address, account number and credit limit with terms & conditions on the reverse.

 

My question relates to previous posts here - Is this an enforceable agreement because from what I have read this appears to be overdone Terms & Conditions and also does anyone know what this means?

 

In addition, your personal details, the signature box, signature and date of signature have been omitted from the copy provided as permitted under Regulation 3 of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copy Documents) Regulations 1983.

 

Does Reg 3 (Above) give them rights to not provide me with a signed credit agreement.

 

I hope there is someone here that can advise me.

 

Fingers crossed

[Dinkjames]

Hi Yantoe, there is nothing enforceable about what you received. Most of us on here with Cap1 cards have received exactly the same letter, agreement and terms and conditions.

 

All you need to do now is send them the indispute letter. Look through some of the other Cap1 threads and you'll loads of people with the same copy of the document you have.

 

It is absolute rubbish they send out.

[Yantoe]

Thanks for the quick reply. Just read the new post about court stays on unenforceable debts. Just like the bank charges. I hope it just means Chester and I will pursue with the follow up letter as you advised.

 

Have you had an outcome from Capital One? Sorry can't see your thread after I pressed reply.

 

Good to know we are not alone.

[Yantoe]

Have been frantically reading all the posts about Capone and Reg 3 of the CCA and template letters posted here. I note that it is very difficult to get Capone to send out your CCA and have drafted the following letter using bits from other letters. I will leave it here for a few days before posting. So if anyone spots any flaws please let me know. Desperate and scared to take on the banks so any advice much needed and appreciated.

For the attention of: XXXXXXX

Capital One Bank (Europe) plc

P.O. Box 5283

Nottingham

NG2 3YG 11th June 2009

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Account number: XXXXXXXXXXX

Thank you for your letter dated 5th June 2009 in response to my request for executed copies pertaining to the above credit agreement. The Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and copies of Documents) regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557) is only applicable in conjunction with The Consumer Credit (Prescribed Periods for Giving Information) Regulations) 1983 (SI 1983/1569) and are only applicable to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 sections 58,62,63,63 and 64. My previous request was a statutory request made under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 section 77/78 and therefore the copy of the credit agreement requested must be a true copy of the fully executed agreement.

 

I appreciate your timely response and wish to accept your invitation to prevail on you for further information. Therefore, I write once more with regards to the above account with your organisation.

 

I respectfully request that you provide me by return a copy of the credit agreement which bears my signature. I require this as I have reason to believe that there may be discrepancies within the agreement which may leave it improperly executed.

Additionally, I require the underwriting sheet or other document showing any commissions paid to you by the broker or by you to the broker.

 

If the agreement is improperly executed I would be entitled to ask the court to consider the agreement and make a declaration of the rights of parties to the agreement.

 

I must stress this request is NOT made pursuant to section 78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 as per my previous request but is made pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules ( Pre action protocols and Part 31.16) and therefore an unsigned copy will not suffice, only a copy of the original contract in its unaltered form will suffice in these circumstances

 

Please confirm to me if you still hold a copy of my original signed agreement and advise me whether you will provide me with said document.

 

I hope you will view this as a reasonable request. When you supply me with the original document as requested it will allow me to assess if my case has merit. Your continued expedient nature will help to resolve matters, possibly without the need to involve the court, which will undoubtedly save time and costs on both sides

 

I look forward to your reply and would respectively ask for a response by 4pm on 2nd July 2009.

 

Regards

 

 

 

xxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

Fingers crossed they get back soon without threatening me with court action.

[Dinkjames]

I would always recommend that you use a standard template letter. They have been used before with some success.

 

Your letter, IMO, clouds the issue as you are mixing two very different pieces of legislation in the letter. First you refer to the CCA and demand a copy and then you use CPR31.16 saying this is NOT a request under the CCA.

 

The risk you run with your letter is that the bank will look at it and think 'This person doesn't know what they are on about'

 

Just follow the CCA route for now.

 

If you get a letter threatening court action in 7 days, then by all means use the CPR31.16 letter.

 

The underwriting part in your letter only has to do with PPI. Do you have that on your card?

 

Lastly, the banks want you to be scared. That way they can intimidate you and make you tow the line and do what they want.

 

With CAG behind you, you can stand up to them and fight your corner, but follow the guidance on here and the template letters.

Edited June 11, 2009 by Dinkjames
spelling

[Yantoe]

Thanks Dinkjames,

 

I guess I did not want them to just send me back the same letter as before and thought a double whammy might work offering two points of law in my favour to force them to supply said agreement.

 

I know I have nil experience but feel very strongly on this issue which is why I bow to folks with more kudos in this field and hesitated sending the letter. I will follow the tried & tested route and stay positive.

 

Thanks for the word up. Nice to know we are not alone in this battle.

[Dinkjames]

Doesn't matter what piece of legislation you quote to them or how you word your letter, they will send you a pile of horse manure anyway.

 

Take heart in the fact that if they are sending you rubbish, they probably cannot find or do not have you original CCA or the one they have is unenforceable. If they had it, you would most definitely have had a copy by now.

 

We all feel strongly on the issue, that why we fight them

[creditcardmug]

Dinkjames is right, you can argue with them until blue in the face, it wont make any difference to them...they will pass it around various DCAs lowlifes, then sell it for pennies to the likes of lowell etc, who will the continue to chase for the full amount.

After 6 years of no payment/acknowledgement its statute barred