Statutory Demand - CitiFinancial

[alf2000]

This is a copy of the thread I have opened in another forum, but I have been asked to put it here as well as it involves Citi

The original link is

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/183101-statutory-demand-citifinancial-1st.html#post1973074

 

 

I have just got a Statutory demand relating to Citifinance, I am not sure if it looks legit, it lists 1st credit as the creditor and also connaught as the creditor and it is over an alleged debt to Citi Finance!

 

It also says

"[your local court]" in brackets for where it should say the court that is supposed to be dealing with it.

 

To have it set aside it says I have 18 days from when it was served

To do so I have to apply to the court mentioned in section A - where it does not give a court - it justs says [your local court] and it must be supported by an affidavit, and that the forms are available from the local court?!?!?!

 

This was waiting for me in a pile of post and is dated the 21/1/09 but there is no postage date on the envelope, so according to this it is all ready too late for me to do anything.

 

The alleged debt is for £752

I requested a CCA from Citi 6 months ago and they sent out terms and conditions printed from their website a few months later.

I dont owe Citi this money - plus they owe me nearly £1.5k in penalty charges which Citi have refused to pay me.

 

What do I do?

Is it too late to do anything? the letter appears to imply that it is too late now, but I have only just got it and have no idea what I need to do and have no time to do it!!!!

[Enron]

Thank you for putting your post here, you are more likely to get a guide on how to combat this in the debt section.

 

That said people need to be aware of the kind of actions that Citi are doing with regard accounts, and indeed what happens when they sell them on.

 

Section 78(6) is active as Citi are not fulfilling s78(1) requests within the statutory period, so the account should not have been sold let alone being the subject of a statutory demand.

 

If the Statutory Demand has been sent from a court, I would write to that court requesting a set aside hearing - turn up at the hearing, stating that the s78(1) request hasn't been completed properly - I have the Office Of Fair Trading documents which outline what completes it, they should not have added any interest, charges or updated your credit file but likely have which will be another reason as to why the amount is disputed etc.

 

You should be able to find your local county court using this:

 

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/HMCSCourtFinder/

Edited February 11, 2009 by Enron

[Michael Browne]

If the Statutory Demand has been sent from a court, I would write to that court requesting a set aside hearing

SD's are not issued by a court, but are merely sent out by the creditor as a precursor to an application for bankruptcy proceedings

 

The alleged debt is for £752

 

The minimum figure for a bankrupcty application is £750, so the chances are that issuing an SD is just a scare tactic. It will cost them considerably more than that to follow through, evn if you are too late to apply for a set aside. Or you could pay them £3

[Enron]

Havent dealt with them beforehand, just had general reading on them.

 

So the best course of action would be to wait till receiving court papers, then register your request for a set aside hearing.

[rory32]

If the Statutory Demand has been sent from a court, I would write to that court requesting a set aside hearing

The statutory demand is not a court document, it's just a document you download and print out. The statutory demand won't have been sent by the court, it'll have been sent by 1st Credit.

 

Citi will have had very little to do with the SD, it's simply something that 1st Credit send out like confetti.

 

The SD can be set aside at your local court that deals with bankruptcy proceedings, not all courts deal with this so you will have to check with your local court. It will be very straightforward to set aside as the amount owing is disputed. There are a couple of forms you need to fill in and if you tell the court that you have only recently received it they may be willing to wave the fee that you would normally have to pay if you wish to apply for a set aside after 18 days.

 

I dont owe Citi this money - plus they owe me nearly £1.5k in penalty charges which Citi have refused to pay me.

Have you filed a claim at court?

[rory32]

So the best course of action would be to wait till receiving court papers,

No. Because the SD can still very easily be set aside and with costs awarded against 1st Credit. An SD is easier to deal with than any bankruptcy petition.

[Enron]

Many thanks for clarifying that - you learn something every day.

[Enron]

Wouldnt they also need the original executed agreement as part of any proceedings under the civil procedure rules to commence action of any kihd?

[rory32]

Only if you requested it.

[Enron]

Alot of older executed agreements held by Citi have problems with prescribed terms, format, wording etc..... some would say this is the reasoning behind the misleading of customers by sending recent Terms & Conditions out in response to s78(1) CCA as they don't want this to become common knowledge.

[alf2000]

mine would be a very old agreement from about 10 years ago

[Enron]

Likely to be either a Peoples Bank Connecticut, or Associates executed agreement then.

 

Mine was from 1996 and they managed to retrieve the front when Trading Standards got involved (after 9 months of enforcing the agreement whilst they legally were barred including defaulting it), but generally if they haven't supplied it first time round its likely they either dont have it or its not unenforceable.

 

Follow Rory32s advise regarding the Statutory Demand, then we can look at claiming charges.... as the amount of penalty charges is more than the balance its certainly worth doing and i'll lend you my assistance in that.

 

Find your MP as well, people are being severely affected by Citi's improper actions - and no doubt your credit file has been defaulted etc. The Office Of Fair Trading need to be made aware of this, and investigate what is going on here.

[alf2000]

Yep the good old Associates

[42man]

Alf unfortunately you can't request anything under the Civil Procedure Rules as Stat Demands and Bankruptcies are governed by the Insolvency Act and not the Civil Laws.....

 

I have written an affadavit for you in your other thread here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/183101-statutory-demand-citifinancial-1st.html#post1973074 if you need any more help please send me a PM and I will answer on thread...I urge you to get this set aside ASAP as this is a vexatious and unlawful act on their part...Citi should NOT have passed this on whilst in dispute...

[alf2000]

Thanks 42 man

 

Is this all I need to put ?

 

"The debt is totally disputed.

 

This has been raised with the original creditor but despite the bona-fide dispute the debt has been passed on. This I believe to be a completely vexatious and unlawful action and an abuse of the Insolvency service.

 

The debtor is currently going through the process of reclaiming in excess of £1500 of excessive penalty charges.

 

I believe this to be a frivolous and unlawful action as the demand does not state a county court on it, and nothing has been 'served'."

 

Or do I need to explain more about Citi's poor response to my CCA request back in september? and quote the case law examples etc?

[Enron]

Sounds good, I would also be tempted to state that the original creditor has not completed a section 78(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 request submitted on xx/xx/xxxx, s78(6) Consumer Credit Act 1974 is active preventing the original creditor from enforcing the agreement at all either with or without a court order until it has completed the request.

 

Heres the documents you'll need relating to this:

 

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c104/telso/1-8.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c104/telso/Image2.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c104/telso/Image3.jpg

 

I can give you an uncensored copy of page 1 if you wish by PM, which specifically lists Citi Financial Europe Plc as the creditor.

[alf2000]

I am in court tomorrow with this!!!

 

1st Credit have said they wont be attending - and say they have wrote to the court to advise them they are formally withdrawing the stat demand

 

What should I be expecting in court? - Will I still have to put my case over - or is it just a case of me claiming my expenses?

 

For my expenses what prep work do I need to do and what is reasonable to claim, I was thinking that the research that I have done is probably over 40 hours - is this reasonable? I have not taken any time off work so I assume my only real expense is my time?

 

What advise does everyone have on this?

[Michael Browne]

1st Credit have said they wont be attending - and say they have wrote to the court to advise them they are formally withdrawing the stat demand

Wonder why? Could have something to do with this:

OFT imposes requirements on 1st Credit over debt collection practices

 

 

The Office of Fair Trading: OFT imposes requirements on 1st Credit over debt collection practices

 

 

What should I be expecting in court? - Will I still have to put my case over - or is it just a case of me claiming my expenses?

Assuming they don't turn up as promised, then yes, just asking for wasted costs

 

For my expenses what prep work do I need to do and what is reasonable to claim, I was thinking that the research that I have done is probably over 40 hours - is this reasonable? I have not taken any time off work so I assume my only real expense is my time?

TBH 40 hours seems excessive to me, would you be able to justify that to the judge?

 

You should keep your estimate of the time which you have spent moderate and convincing.

You must lay out the work you have done and the expenses you have covered systematically in a spreadsheet.

Your costs can include:

 

• Time preparing letters @9.25ph
  
• Postage, Recorded and Special Delivery
  
• Faxes
  
• Time preparing claim, AQ, court bundle, hearings @9.25ph
  
• Copying
  
• Stationery
  
• Phone calls
  

[alf2000]

Thanks for the information, the 40 hours included all the research reading through cases on here, to figure out what to do and writting to the OFT, so if its just time preparing letters and putting the evidence together for the claim then it will be a lot less. All other costs are next to nothing.

 

If out of the blue 1st credit were to turn up, do we just run as normal? or do I jump all over them about the letter saying they will not be there?

 

If they do and I need to fight them, I should win in anycase but does anyone have any advice on angles that I need to have covered against them?

 

If they walk in with my CCA does that count? or do I need to have had time to check it in advance etc?

This on its own should not be enough for them to win as the owe me thousands on penalty charges but I would just have to trust that the judge would take the penalty charges in to account.

[Michael Browne]

Time preparing letters, includes all the research reading through cases on here etc, not just the time it took to type them.

 

If they do turn up (99.999% guaranteed, they won't) show them a print out of the OFT link above and tell them you will present this to the judge and report them to the OFT.

[alf2000]

Thanks Michael

I have already reported them to the OFT, and the OFT asked for permission to release my details to them so that they could talk with them about the case. However they probably would know this? plus I really do not expect to see them there.

 

I really have spent over 40 hours including research, but I will reduce it if this looks like I am going over the top. I guess I just did not have any background and wanted to be sure what I was doing, and maybe I have not picked things up too quickly. I was considering knocking 10-15 hours off, I assume this would be seen as reasonable?

[alf2000]

Just got back from court ....

 

They did not turn up as it said in their letter.

 

The Judge said they have withdrawn it so that’s that!

 

I asked for costs and the Judge pulled his face a bit - and said he would consider it.

 

He then said that they wrote in there letter that they had wrote to me 4 times asking for the money and I never complained and if I had they would not have issued the demand.

 

... So he said he would consider a percentage as I was partially at fault

 

He then asked if I had sent a copy of my expenses to 1st credit - I said no and he said that’s it then - you can not have expenses.

 

I tried to explain that they were underhand but the Judge would not listen to the OFT report or the letters the OFT sent me.

 

He also would not take in to account that they did not formally assign the debt, and that I presented the recorded delivery slip of the CCA request and they then assigned it to 1st credit a month after they were in default of the CCA and I informed 1st credit that there was a dispute and that the account was in dispute – but they argued in their letter that I did not make it clear that it was a CCA dispute!!!!

 

He just would not listen

 

At least the OFT have taken some action.