Virgin Media, reclaiming late payment charges

[MARTIN3030]

Raymond -you have been able to challenge the fee on a few occasions not because of their windows ...or doors or even cupboards-but because they are simple a penalty which they have systematically refused to substantiate as being anything otherwise.

I have now done them twice (albeit one was Telewest) and I have noticed in my first claim they DID refund also the non DD fees as well-since I claimed both.

 

In the interim of them settling with me,and my latest bill,they added a further tenner.

However when I called to pay the bill,the CSA said-its £135.00....erm no.....sorry £125.

Looks to me theres a note on the screen telling them to credit it.

They know that if they dont I will simply claim again next Christmas-suppose in one respect it cuts out the hamper agent-and I can make my own hamper up with VMs charges-plus of course dont have to worry about the hamper agent going bust.

VM will keep my tenner safe with interest.

The best of both worlds I would say.

[MARTIN3030]

Dont ask them for a "List of Charges" you are making a SAR for copy statements for your existing VM account,and also your previous Telewest account.

Make sure that you send the 10.00 fee.

If you are concerned about VM giving you any grief over this,then you can simply add something like this within the body of your SAR;

 

 

I should point out, that should it become apparant to me that any recent or historic charges, or fees applied to my account,can be construed as penalties under common law,then in the absence of you being able to properly substantiate them as fair and reasonable,I will be pursuing recovery of those charges/fees.

I am afforded protection from regulators,and consumer law and statute,and any hostile or adverse actions from Virgin Media,as a result of my communications in establishing openess and transparicy of fees and charges,will institute a complaint with a request for compensation under the Financial Services Authority Compensation scheme.

[MARTIN3030]

Yes thats it.

[MARTIN3030]

I claimed for Telewest and NTL -I am putting together my 3rd one now for non DD fees for 25 months-plus the £30 they added in late charges while my last claim was going on.with interest I reckon its around £200.00

Then I will have had around £750 in total refunded.

[MARTIN3030]

Hi Jogs,I dont see it needing any special POC.

Simply state that despite repeated requests to show you figures,which demonstrate the fee as being fair,and reflective of their actual costs,they have failed to do so.

Therefore you are of the opinion that the charges are an unfair penalty under common law.I am not so sure if there is not anything in the 2008 unfair terms to use either.I wanted to have a look to see if I could find anything on that-in particular stuff that may support it.

They will of course address it in their defence by saying its industry standard practices and has been agreed by the regulators bla bla bla as being ok.

But as with the £12 OFT credit card charge ceiling-its not statute-and so of course open to challenge.

The ace is to file for full disclosure-if they are ordered to do this,then its game over.

I will dig out their defence from my Telewest claim and see how they addressed it there.

[MARTIN3030]

Something maybe like this-you may need to alter some figures since the DD fees varied.

 

xxxx v Virgin media

 

Particulars of claim.

 

 

 

The claimant has an account for the provision of cable TV Telephone and Internet services.

Account number XXXXX operated within their standard terms and conditions.

During the periods XXXXX to XXXX,at regular monthly intervals,inclusive,the defendant has levied xxx charges of xxx to the claimants account for late payments to the account.Additionally,during the same periods,at regular monthly intervals,the defendant further levied xxx charges of xxx to the account as a fee because the claimant did not settle payments due,by the use of direct debit mandate.

The Claimant tried to negotiate with the defendant to have these charges refunded,or alternatively supply a breakdown of their costs which would demonstrate the said charges to be a genuine pre estimate of its costs or losses in relation to the charges.

Claimant wrote two letters one of which was a letter before action sent on xxxxx The Defendant has refused to refund the said charges or provide evidence to show that they are justified,or can be shown to be a reasonable assesment of their costs.

Claimant believes these charges to be a dissproportionate penalty,and therefore are unenforceable being contrary to common law.Additionally the claimant believes they are invalid under the unfair contract terms act 1977 s4

Also, that they are unfair under consumer contract terms regulations 1999 para B sch 2.1.e

In the event that they are not a penalty,they are unreasonable within the meaning of the supply of goods and services act 1982 s15.

The claimant recieved a telephone call from the defendants chief executives office on XXXXX which gave a final response that no charges would be refunded,and that no breakdown of its costs would be provided to me.

The claimant has given the defendant a further 28 days to reconsider,but unfortunately their position remains the same.

Reluctantly therefore,the claimant seeks no alternative than to file this claim in the county court.Claimant believes they have followed pre action protocols in this matter.A list of the charges is attatched,the defendants have previously been sent this list.

On judgement being awarded against defendant,claimant seeks statute section 69 interest from the earliest charge to judgement ,which is currently XXX and at a daily rate of xxxx Claimant accepts this is at the discretion of the court.Additionally the claimant seeks reasonable costs incurred by bringing this action.

 

 

I believe the facts stated in these particulars of claim are true.

 

Full name;

 

Signed Claimant

 

Date

[MARTIN3030]

Mick,A request has to be specific-this means that you have to say exactly what you want,otherwise a data controller can refuse if its what they term an "open ended request"

Therefore you should say that you want copy statements,call logs,and details of any manual intervention from the periods of XXXX to XXXX inclusive.

You dont have to mention Telewest-as Booky said,VM are liable for all the charges.

[MARTIN3030]

I am disappointed to read Raymonds response here.

For a minute I was wondering if he is actually working for VM now ?

Whether a take over/merger/buyout....call it what you will,

Virgin media took the helm 100% lock stock and Barrel of the old Telewest/NTL.

In doing so,they took over all their liabilities assets and customers.

Raymond if you want any evidence that VM are indeed liable for the past conduct of Telewest that are now finding their way into Court....look no further than CAG.

I can give you one specific example in the form of a certain credit card called Associates....in 2001 they were taken over by Citigroup.

I personally have a claim ongoing in litigation against Citigroup,for my former Associates card.

Citi have recognised they are liable.

 

When we have members here,looking for some guidance,I think its best to rely on not what we think we know-but on what we DO know based on our own experiences.

 

For the last time Mike-I say again...ask for all statements going back to when you want to claim.

If you appear to VM to be confused as to whether they have any responsibility to send them,or ask them if you can claim Telewest charges-what do you think they will think ?

I rest my case.

I hope we dont hear any more negatives here.

Raymond-I will be the first to apologise if it turns out I am wrong-but I am 100% certain that I am right.

I dont profess to know all there is to know in the telecoms threads-in fact to be fair to you,you are more knowledgable than me across the board.

But I am quite passionate about Virgin Media and therefore ask you to respect advice given is based on experience and success.

[MARTIN3030]

Raymond-The BT case was flawed,in that the woman did not put her case very well.It was not a high court ruling either-and so is perfectly up for challenge.

I didnt need and Rose tinted spectacles in my claim-and if I had to buy them-they would have been added to my wasted costs order.

 

Theres even an another ace card that could be used if needed-that of Limitation and "Mistake"...if VM were to go all the way,my thoughts are that they would try to use the limitation arguement for older charges-but we have that addressed too.

 

Additionally-the BT loser did not have the benefits of being a member of CAG,whilst I cant say whether she would still have lost,I think I can say that she would certainly have been more prepared.

[MARTIN3030]

For the benefit of "Vociferous supporters".....heres what it means;

 

vo⋅cif⋅er⋅ous

 

   /voʊˈsɪfərəs/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [voh-sif-er-uhs] Show IPA Pronunciation

–adjective 1. crying out noisily; clamorous. 2. characterized by or uttered with vociferation: a vociferous manner of expression.

 

 

If crying out noisily,is needed to assist someone to get back a couple of hundred quid they are entitled to-then in my book thats justified.

[MARTIN3030]

quote

 

"Just because they should - doesn't guarantee they will - so if you're happy at possibly losing £50, in court fees ask those vociferous supporters to contribute to the cost."

 

 

Ok Raymond....heres a proposal for you.

 

If he loses-I will personally give him £25.00 towards his costs.

 

If he wins-you donate £25.00 to CAG.

 

I am confident enough to wager on it-I wonder if you are confident to agree to it ?

[MARTIN3030]

Ah, but Martin - you'd think VM would actually care? So far we've not heard of them actually turning up in court, so the veracity of their possible defence might never be tested, as a no-show could be classed as a 'win' and the original claim upheld without any merit, because it might cost the firm £600 to send a solicitor to represent them at the action, but lesser amount to make it just 'go away'.

 

 

 

This is the point of telling claimants they should go for it.

Its extremely unlikely that any of these claims would go outside SCT and so the prospects of a LIP suffering costs is negligible.

You have the right idea and I am glad that its something that we can agree on-Its not cost effective for them to defend.Whether a case went to trial or not makes no difference-a win is a win if the other side have to repay back the charges(or choose to do so )..after a claimant issued a summons.

 

And one more point-according to all the media business reports-it was actually a rebrand by NTL after it bought Virgin offerings.

My Telewest claim was made against Telewest,but it was settled by NTL I still have the letters of settlement and comms all on NTL headed paper.

Therefore it adds more weight to the arguement that the Telewest Charges are still claimable-albeit under the VM brand name.

Edited January 31, 2009 by MARTIN3030

[MARTIN3030]

Good.After you have recd a response to your LBA from VM,

I will give you the direct email for the VM legal chap who will undoubtably be sorting things.

[MARTIN3030]

Yes payment handling fees are now what they relate as non DD.Theres a temp in my thread.

[MARTIN3030]

Hi again, does this letter look ok for my first request for payment.

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

Re. Account number:

I am writing to request that you repay all the specify exactly as they appear on your statements. charges that have been applied to my account. I do not believe these charges reflect the true cost to Virgin Mediafor late payment fees or non direct debit and payment handling fees.

If you have reasons to say otherwise,then please supply me with a full breakdown as to how these are calculated,that will clearly demonstrate them to be a genuine pre-estimate of any loss incurred.

 

The charges total £532, plus as I believe I have been unlawfully deprived of the money *I have calculated £78.47 interest at the statutory rate, the amount the court will award.

Change to- In the event that this matter will go to litigation in the County Court,I will be asking the Court to award section 69 stat interest at 8%

together with an order for costs.

I therefore ask that you repay me the full amount of £610.47. I have attached a full schedule of the charges and interest with this document.

 

Pre action practice directions in the Civil Procedure rules,dictate that there should be adequate notice given before litigation,that allows for both sides to try to negotiate.I reserve the right to make copies of this letter and any subsequent response from yourselves,available to the Court at a later date.

 

I look forward for a full response to this letter within 14 days.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

thanks

Mick

Enc;Schedule of charges requested for repayment.

[MARTIN3030]

As a litigant in person you can charge £9.25 per hour.

Much depends on how much work you do-this obviously depends on how quickly they settle.

 

 

On VM settling you then add any further costs-which could include-allocation fee and hearing fee....if it gets that far.

 

If VM offer settlement before any hearing,add the costs that you have paid plus the total on your claim form including interest.

 

Its usual for them to file acknowledgement-and even a defence.

 

A wasted costs order can be filed after the main hearing.

 

It can look something like this;

 

 

Communications with defendant/drafting letters 2@£9.25 £18.50

 

Research of Civil procedure rules/drafting of claim form 2 @ £9.25 £18.50

 

Stationary/printing /photocopying £16.00

 

Filing claim at Court (Travelling to/from ) 1.00 @£9.25

Transport for above £6.50

 

Total £69.27

 

 

Wasted Costs orders can sometimes by accepted by letter to the Court-or they may require it to be done on notice-N244 which costs £75.00

 

I would send a copy of your wasted costs to VM legal if they indicate they want to settle-this will save further costs.

[MARTIN3030]

You have to remember how many people threaten them with court action.Most dont follow it through and VM are aware of that.

I am just about to start my 3rd claim.

Theres non DD fees and late charges amounting to around £225.00

I did the prelim,then the Lba.

I recieved a fob off letter to my LBA.

I sent NB an email-to which he replied saying he would have it reviewed.Then got a letter to say they was standing by the decision-in the letter they pointed out that they told me last July that their terms and conditions were transparent......funny they seem to have forgotten that I took them to Court AFTER that in December!!!

I have emailed NB back to say I will be filing in 7 days.

 

So in answer to your question they are very unlikely to put anything in writing-they prefere to deal on the phone-I have refused to discuss it by phone as much as they have tried (11 calls in 2 weeks)

What I suggest you do is file the claim.Await their acknowledgement which will come.Their defence is often late.When you get to this stage-contact the VM legal team and ask if they want to settle whilst Court costs are marginal-by this time they KNOW you mean business.

So this does mean paying an issue fee-which is claimable on costs (your wasted costs)

But hopefully it wont get as far as paying the hearing fee.

Just my observations and opinions-of course you must do as your head tells you.

[MARTIN3030]

This clearly looks like a final response.You have shown reasonable attempts to resolve matters and told how you would consider that target met.

There is absolutely no signs of them paying up and they have also gien pre conditions for them to refund a partial amount.

Off you go then.

[MARTIN3030]

See my earlier response.They will acknowledge the claim within the 14 days of issue.They will indicate they are to defend.Their defence will follow.

Its up to you to decide if you want to try to negotiate at that point.

Their Legal bod (Mr.Bond) will then take over,and it will be him that you should deal with.

I suggest at that stage you then offer to file discontinuence if they settle the amount as claimed-remind him that this will save allocation and hearing fees.

[MARTIN3030]

As commented in your other post-their address for the SAR is in the sticky in this forum.

 

It does not matter how or who made the payments-you will be seeking refund of all charges levied on the account.

The request needs to be made by the account holder which if it is in 2 names,can be either of those named.

[MARTIN3030]

You should create your own thread for help and advice in pursuing these charges.

[MARTIN3030]

Thanks for pointing this out.

I will do an update.The info you need is their registered office address;

 

Media House,

Bartley Wood Business Park,

Hook,

Hampshire,

RG27 9UP

[MARTIN3030]

Actually it is still there

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?248373-Mobile-Phone-providers-Landline-providers-Contact-details.