Mardy bailiff and CTAX LO

[tomtubby]

You say there is a Notice of Seizure. What is on it. This is important.

 

If there is not a Notice os Seizure then I would in this instance advise paying the council direct and to include two visit fees. One of £24.50 and the other of £18.00.

 

 

If there is a Notice of Seizure then there would be a levy fee. I cannot advise on whether to pay this fee as well as I do not know what is on the Notice of Seizure.

 

If you could answer the above it would assist.

[tomtubby]

I would say someone is orchestrating posters on this forum to suggest a commercial site and taking discussions away from this site

 

Stop making such childish comments please.

 

NOBODY is suggesting anything of the kind...it is just your imagination. For most people on here it is help that they require and from me they will get just that...

[tomtubby]

On the Notice of Seizure has the bailiff actually levied on your vehicle?

 

Is it subject to finance?

 

How much is it worth?

 

Is it a "tool of your trade"

 

You say that the bailiff has listed 2 visits fees and a levy fee. The bailiff CANNOT charge a visit AND Levy fee for the same visit. Do you know the dates of the visits?

 

I am aware of one council who have insisted on having an undertaking from their bailiff co against any claims made as a result of the redemption of goods fee!!!I would therefore suggest asking B&S under which statutory ruling are they charging a "Head H Fee" (redemption of goods).

 

On the matter of the bailiff and his certification it is best to act with caution and request confirmation from B & S. They MUST provide this.

 

All bailiff companies are aware that they are not allowed by law to charge a credit card transaction fee. Once again I would suggest asking B & S for proof of their right to charge this fee.

[tomtubby]

The matter of charging a credit card transaction fee has been the subject of at least 3 Detailed Assessment hearings to the court on the matter of bailiff fees and I am aware that in each case the Judge has ruled that it is UNLAWFUL to charge a this fee.

 

They can however charge a £1 fee for payments made using a debit card.

[tomtubby]

The answer to this is very simple and is mainly down to publicity.

 

The bailiff companies all know that they should not be making these credit card transaction fees but they do not think that you know this.

 

If you write to the company to ask them for details of the legal ruling that provides for them to charge this fee you will normally find that hey agree to refund the fee. If this does not work we always find that a letter advising that a letter will be sent to the Local Government Ombudsman or even asking for details of their auditors normally works !!!

[tomtubby]

If you are worried about this supposed "debt" you could make payment and state very clearly in your letter to the council that you are paying under "duress". After making payment you can then make Freedom of Information requests and the first one will be to ask the LA for details of their "write off" policy. It would be inconceivable for any council to keep 11 year old debts on their books and it may well be that this "debt" was actually "written off" long ago.

 

Also, you have every right to ask for PROOF that a Liability Order had been granted. The council must provide this.

[tomtubby]

The local authority may ONLY use a bailiff to recover a debt IF a Liability Order gas been granted. Unless they can provide EVIDENCE that a LO was granted then they can only ASK you nicely to pay the debt.

 

The "write off" policy is crucial in your case.

Edited July 2, 2013 by tomtubby

[tomtubby]

The following link is posted as an example only. It refers to Salford Council and it is a very interesting document indeed.

 

Of relevance is the information provided towards the end of Page 9 under the heading of: Statute Barred !!!!

 

Enjoy......

 

services.salford.gov.uk/solar_documents/css221208%204c.doc

 

PS: If you link does not work this should take you to a cached version:

 

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:RyznCjNFkLgJ:http://services.salford.gov.uk/solar_documents/css221208%25204c.doc%2Bservices.salford.gov.uk/solar_documents/css221208%25204c.doc&hl=en-GB&gbv=2&ct=clnk

Edited July 2, 2013 by tomtubby

[tomtubby]

]tomtubby Is correct the council would have to have a 'Write Off Policy' now what you need to remember when you ask for a copy of that policy is you DO NOT want the present Policy you want a copy of the Policy that was in place at the time of this debt from 2009 as that was the policy the were enforcing at that time[/i].

 

 

Given that the debt is 11 years old he will need to request a copy of the "Write off Policy" that was in place 11 years ago ( 2002 I believe).

[tomtubby]

Please keep us all updated as this is an important subject given that many local authorities are dredging up old cases from years ago in an attempt to raise additional revenue.

[tomtubby]

Given the length of time that they are taking to respond I suspect they are a bit worried.

 

Looking forward to reading their response.......when it eventually arrives !!!

[tomtubby]

The story continues....

They've compiled the the SAR. The 'write off' policy in place at the time was '....if a debtor was not traceable' . As I wasn't at the address to answer, and the only contact was recently, I'm not sure how I wasn't seen as 'untraceable'

They currently do not have a write off policy. No sign of any court paper evidence of a summons or liability order. They've ask me to 'get in touch with the court' for this, I have and was told they do not keep records back that far.

It seems they're just being a PIA for the sake of it, they've been notified this isn't enforceable as they have no copy of the original liability order ,but they've not sent out a letter stating there's no case to answer.

God knows they need this money ,if only to fund their wasteful department that employs 90% of its time chasing their tail.

 

 

Have a look at the posts that I have made today on the thread regarding a debt going back 19 years.

[tomtubby]

Hi Tommytubby,

 

 

In my case they cannot provide a copy of the liability order:

 

.

In my answer on the other thread I had stated that the LOCAL AUTHORITY and NOT the Magistrates Court actually print the Liability Order. It is therefore for the LA to provide a copy and if they cannot do so then there can be NO PROOF at all that the court granted the Liability Order and on which date it was "supposedly" granted.

 

The "Liability Order" is a "Statutory Form" . If you require a copy, let me know.

[tomtubby]

With all types of debt a bailiff cannot legally enforce the "debt" unless in possession of the relevant "legal authority". Although, this is a relatively long answer I hope that you can understand it:

 

 

With unpaid county court judgment, the claimant makes an application to the County Court and will pay a fee of £100 for the issue of a "warrant of execution".

 

With an unpaid parking charge notice , the claimant ( in this cases the local authority) makes an application to the Traffic Enforcement Centre at Northampton County Court and will pay a fee of £7 for permission to issue a "warrant of execution"

 

With an unpaid magistrates court fine, at present no fee is charged (although this is likely to change shortly) and the fines officer will issue a Distress Warrant.

 

With unpaid council tax, the claimant (in this case the local authority) makes an application to the Magistrates Court and will pay a fee of £3 for permission to issue a Liability Order.

 

The different fee charges are of course a nonsense but then I don't make the rules (I just try to change them !!)

 

As you can see, each debt type will have a "lawful authority" whether it is called a Distress Warrant, Warrant of Execution or Liability Order.

 

If the local authority cannot provide EVIDENCE of a Liability Order then I would be asking them to either close the case or alternatively, to register your complaints as a Stage Two Complaint and that if you are not satisfied with the response that you will be asking the Local Government Ombudsman to investigate.

[tomtubby]

A Liability Order is on Form A.

 

I am not too good at copying documents onto the forum so instead, I have re-typed a copy of the statutory Liability Order in relation to unpaid council tax:

 

 

 

 

Form A

 

Magistrates Court: ( xxx Magistrates Court)

 

 

Date: xxx

 

Defendant: xxx

 

Address: xxx

 

On the complaint of (name of billing authority) that the sum of (£xx) is due to the defendant to the complainant under Part 4 of the Council Tax Administration and Enforcement Regulations 1992 and is outstanding it is adjudged that the defendant is liable to pay the aggregate amount specified below, and it is ordered that the amount that that amount may be enforced in the manner mentioned in Part VI of those regulations accordingly.

 

Sum payable and outstanding: £

 

Costs of complainant: £

 

Aggregate amount in respect of which the Liability Order is made: £

 

 

 

Justice of the Peace

 

(or by order of the Court Clerk of the Court)

[tomtubby]

I would strongly urge you to take this matter to the Local Government Ombudsman to resolve.