Locked in car park

[MrShed]

Just for my input, I am not sure if I am missing something here. Are you intending to defend the entire claim, or merely question the value of the claim? As I would have thought a defence to the entire claim would automatically fail, as the person in question has admitted to the criminal offence where the requirement for evidence is much more stringent.

[MrShed]

In other words, to my mind as the person has accepted an offence of criminal damage, there is no question to be answered in court that this person is liable for the costs as a result of the criminal damage - there is only a question of the value of these costs.

[MrShed]

What I would say Patma is that the criminal aspect MUST be addressed first, as it will have a massive impact upon the civil case.

 

If there is doubt as to the legitimacy of the criminal caution, then that should be addressed first, and a request made to put on hold the civil action, as the matter is still subject to criminal proceedings.

 

I must admit, I was not aware that you could get such "convictions"/cautions overturned at a later date after admitted?

[MrShed]

What about legal aid or similar?

 

At this stage, I think it is important to progress quickly.

 

I would be writing to the court, copying in the college, stating that you (him, obviously, but will simplify by saying "you") are intending to challenge the criminal damage offence. As such, as the caution for the offence has a major impact upon the bearing of the civil case in question, you would ask for a stay in the proceedings until the criminal case is fully resolved. I would think that the CC will have difficulty in doing anything other than staying the case.

 

Then, the question of the criminal case will need to be addressed as quickly as possible.

[MrShed]

Patma, I've been doing a bit of reading on this.

 

Quote:

 

The police can only give a caution if there's a realistic prospect of conviction, the person getting the caution admits the offence, and it's clear they understand what a caution is and give informed consent.

 

Is it the case in your friends case that any of these aspects were not correct? Was the caution in question given actually in a police station, and signed?

[MrShed]

It is important to note that as it stands, the caution is a full and unequivocal acceptance of guilt for the offence. Therefore, not only is your friend accepting that he damaged the barrier, he is accepting that he UNLAWFULLY damaged the barrier in an act of criminal damage.

 

Hence why it would have such a major impact upon a civil case. There could be no defence whatsoever in a civil case against the charges as a whole, merely a debate about the actual out of pocket charges incurred.

[MrShed]

I think it is the latter buzby, at this stage the criminal damage aspect is actually complete, in so much that the person in question has accepted a caution for the offence, but now has an aim to reopen this and get it re-addressed - which will be no mean feat it must be said, but if they genuinely believe the caution is wrong, then it should be attempted.

[MrShed]

In that case, I think you MAY have a case to apply to the police force in question to have the caution overturned.

 

As to the process - I have no idea unfortunately. It isnt neccessarily a "complaint", so unsure if it goes down the complaints process, but ultimately this is perhaps the only route which will not involve a costly solicitor.

 

The police should not have produced a caution if there was not a genuine chance of conviction, and on the evidence available AT THE TIME, this would appear to have not been the case. Therefore, I guess that this might well be a police complaint issue, as they have breached their own procedures.

[MrShed]

Good grief - this is still going on????

 

I havent been on these forums for about 8 months, and this was one of the last posts I made (back on pages 1 and 2!) - cant believe the size!

 

Patma - hope you are doing OK with it....for my curiousity (I dont have time to read 106 pages unfortunately!) can you sum up what has happened since page 2???

[MrShed]

You REALLY, REALLY REALLY need to read it :grin:

 

 

Jogs

 

I really really wish I had time!!!

[MrShed]

I started the thing off!!! Haha!

[MrShed]

Up to page 8.....

[MrShed]

Page 21 and counting LOL

[MrShed]

Serves you right for going awol, Mr Shed.

It's a good job you're a fast reader.

 

I know!!! House move, job change etc etc - it mounts up!!!

 

Page 37

[MrShed]

Well done you're flying along now. Does flapping your arms all the time help you to read fast? If so I'll try it.

 

Hit the half way point woohoo!!

 

Needless to say Patma the missus isnt happy and has gone to bed

[MrShed]

2 and a half hours later and...done!

 

All I can say is

 

And...that I am pleased I encouraged you to try and overturn the "conviction" originally all those months ago!!!!!

 

Will continue to follow with interest!

[MrShed]

Its one of the most disgraceful cases I've seen on here I must admit.

 

One of the few times when people cry "let the papers know" and I actually agree - has there been any press involvement to date?

[MrShed]

I sincerely hope that the CPS prosecute the individuals concerned, once it gets to that point.

[MrShed]

Any update yet ?

[MrShed]

"We refer to the Court order dated 15th October . We are prepared to request a transcript of the Directions Hearing in which you admit you received a caution for causing criminal damage to the claimant's barrier, on the basis that you are prepared to incur half the cost of that document.

Please confirm that you are prepared to pay your contribution towards the cost of the transcript and we will contact the court in order to obtain it."

 

 

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

 

Sorry - *breathes*

 

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

HA!

 

Right - its out of my system now.

 

[MrShed]

Interesting from that link, that you can only receive a caution if you admit the offence....

 

Did Fred ever admit to the offence of criminal damage?

[MrShed]

Good luck!

[MrShed]

Awaiting with bated breath!!!

[MrShed]

Is this now the longest "serious" thread on these forums????

[MrShed]

Best of luck guys.

 

Lets see if this thread can (hopefully) come to a good conclusion.

 

Alternatively, maybe it will just keep going on and on!!