NCP £200 PCCN for Damage to Car Park Equipment

[CAGuser12345]

Hello Everyone.

 

I have received a £200 Notice of Car Park Contravention from NCP. "It was recorded by CCTV camera that the above vehicle was involved in the following Contravention: Damage to Car Park Equipment."

 

Note: car park is in Scotland as am I, in case that makes any legal difference.

 

By way of background: on more than one day the exit barrier was broken - it wouldn't rise - so each and every driver (including me) had to get out, lift the barrier, and drive away - whereupon the barrier returned to its normal position, or in some cases flopped to the ground. I observed this several times from the pay point, as well as from the exit queue of course. When I lifted the barrier, I did not use excessive force - I wasn't in a rage or anything.

 

But my guess is that NCP have had to repair the clapped-out barrier so have sent these PCCNs to all cars using that car park over several days, in the hope that a few will cough up and cover the repair costs. (Scoundrels.)

 

Having browsed several threads there, I haven't found any exactly relevant - and feel the "damage" element makes this a little more worrying than "just" parking fines.

 

Does anyone have experience of Scottish police stopping drivers because of information from NCP and others (like, I read here, appears to have happened in Manchester)?

 

Do NCP, or others, act differently in such Damage cases? Conversely, should I either follow the standard template sequence, or do nothing; or act differently

in this case?

 

I will find it difficult to relax and do nothing ...

 

Thanks in anticipation of any advice!

 

Regards

earwig

[Steve__M]

Ask them for CCTV footage of the alleged offence and for footage for the period prior to the offence (showing others doing the same). Don't admit you were the driver yet. Ask them for evidence of damage repair and for how much they have claimed from other people. Consider stating something bland like without accepting any fault you may consider a contribution to damage offset by a contribution from them for the inconvenience caused.

 

Likely you'll get a template letter rejecting your appeal which means that you can sit back and relax, ignoring all future letters as in the unlikely event they later change their minds and go to court you can show that from the outset you were looking to discuss the issue.

[Al27]

They seem to be asking the vehicle for the £200, which is impressive considering the vehicle has no money and didn't even touch the barrier.

 

It's a basic letter asking to reimbursement for the apparent damage, but doesn't even explain how they came up with the figure. It could cost £100 for a new barrier for example - what proof have they given you? They don't even explain how it was damaged.

 

I'd ignore them. If there is CCTV evidence of you merely moving a barrier which was preventing you from leaving, there's not much they can do and it wouldn't stand up in small claims, especially if every driver was moving it.

[gwc1000]

Surely if NCP claim you caused damage (especially if they have it on CCTV) then it would be a matter for the Police.

Personally I would ignore.

[crem]

I agree with gwc100 on that. I think the offence would be "criminal damage" and therefore a police matter, to whom they should have reported it.

 

As a counter claim of course, you could avise them you are taking them to court for false imprisonment by not allowing you to lawfully leave the car park as the barrier didn't lift.

 

To pursue such a damages claim they must have video footage of you "damaging" the barrier and you could deny it and say you will be happy to watch the video footage of your "offence", as well as the preceeding and following 1/2 hour of the tape in court with the judge.

[green_and_mean]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/parking-traffic-offences/165979-ncp-cark-paking-fine.html

[CAGuser12345]

Oops, found nevinder's thread after I'd started mine. Hope we can coordinate / offer mutual support!

[adamna]

...you could avise them you are taking them to court for false imprisonment by not allowing you to lawfully leave the car park as the barrier didn't lift.

 

You probably weren't being serious, but it wouldn't work. I took Ikea to court for loss of liberty when I was locked in their car park at night after shopping (I was the last customer). Judge said no loss of liberty as I could have walked away, but could have claimed for a cab home and back in the morning. As Ikea is in the middle of nowhere, a bit impractical. My actual escape was impressive.

 

Lesson learned, get your claim wording exactly right, and don't ask a solicitor to do it as I did.

[crem]

Well I was been slightly serious as I believe there are rules governing clamping situations that require the clamper to be available 24 hours a day to allow you to offer payment and get the immediate release of your car. Otherwise they are depriving you of your car unlawfully beyond their compensation for the "trespass" or whatever.

 

As NCP were depriving you of being able to drive your car away, the same should apply to them.

[nevinders]

Hi mate

 

really sorry about the late reply but check out my post and checkout the replys and tell me what you think...ive just updated it today with the latest letter from ncp

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/parking-traffic-offences/165979-ncp-cark-paking-fine-2.html#post1840938

 

many thanks

 

nev

[Al27]

You sound too rattled

 

They have shot themselves in the foot by talking about penalties and the like. The fools could have had a case if they could prove the barrier was damaged, proven how and by who it was damaged and proven how much it would cost to fix or replace.

 

Instead they go on about 'contravening parking regulations' and handing out fines.

 

They merely want to cash in. The barrier probably isn't even damaged.

 

Chill out and relax. They won't give up just yet, but remember that they have no case in law. Conversely, don't expect them to go away just yet because of your angry letter!

[Zamzara]

Were the two people this happened to in the same place? Is there any possibility that it was a 'business decision' by the parking company to not have the barriers work?

[CAGuser12345]

really sorry about the late reply but check out my post and checkout the replys and tell me what you think

 

Good afternoon Nevinders

 

I haven't responded to NCP and I haven't heard anything more from them either.

 

If they do up the ante, I might respond by asking for their video evidence - specifically asking them to demonstrate that I damaged their equipment in an attempt to leave the car park without paying; where as what actually happened was, I paid, and their barrier didn't lift to let me out.

 

Good luck with your own spat.

[CAGuser12345]

Thanks everyone, for your helpful comments and advice.

 

Currently doing nothing, by dint of sitting on hands

 

How many weeks before I can assume they've given up?

 

What makes me particularly cross is that people like NCP (and from a rummage around here it seems they're not the worst?) issue notices like this in the knowledge and expectation that the weak and vulnerable and uninformed will cough up. (Makes me feel a little guilty in consequence, which annoys me even more!)

[CAGuser12345]

Curses, NCP haven't gone away. I've just received a Pre Legal Notification saying if I don't pay £200 in 14 days they'll pass it to a Debt Collection Agency who may take it to the County Court.

 

Hmmmm.

[Al27]

Pre Legal Notification

 

ie. a final final warning

 

Expect a final final final warning next, or nothing.

[lamma]

usual stuff. and I fail to see how an agency can issue papers when they are not principle to any allegation. they do love to try and scare people despite being told off about it bu a judge.

[crem]

The DCA can't take it to county court, NCP would have to do that. Makes you wonder why they are referring it to a DCA though instead of just taking you to court. I wonder why.

[nevinders]

so what do u recommend? shud i reply or ignore them as baliffs cant really do anything but increase the fine

[lamma]

bailiffs ??? where the heck do bailiffs come into this ? (they don't)

[pin1onu]

bailiffs ??? where the heck do bailiffs come into this ? (they don't)

Just to clarify Lamma's statement. Bailiffs are appointed by the courts to collect unpaid fines or in your case judgements against you. As this hasn't gone to court, there isn't any judgement and bailiffs cannot be brought in.

 

The best they can do is refer it to a debt collector who have the same powers to enforce debts as you or I - i.e. sweet F.A.

 

NB: Some debt collectors do have a bailiff business as well. However in these cases their they can only function as bailiffs when they are instructed by courts.

[CAGuser12345]

This isn't going away, sadly.

 

Today I received a letter from NCP's Debt Collectors, Roxburghe, saying that if they do not hear from me within 7 days they will pass the matter to their Solicitors, Graham White.

 

Late payment charges have been added so they're claiming £240.

 

Still sit on my hands?

[crem]

Yeah, your getting near the end of their patience.

 

NCP (several) -> Roxburghe (2 letters) -> Graham White (2 letters) -> THE END

[lamma]

standard procedure from NCP. Roxburghe and G.White (actually just a trade name that has been in trouble with the SRA) very well known. Near the end by the looks of it.

[CAGuser12345]

Thanks for your reassurance both!

 

SRA = ?