NCP cark paking fine HELP!

[nevinders]

Hi guys

 

i really need your help! i recently recieved a fine from NCP car parks, the fine was for raising the barrier in the car park. In my defense i stated that the machine buzzer wasnt working and no attendants were available in the hut and nobody turned up over and hour....below ive posted a copy of the letter i sent to NCP and a reponse from NCP - can you tell me what the next stage is? and what i can do? on the records they cant see at any time the buzzer being pressed but i have informed them that the buzzer wasnt even working and i did look around in there hut for an attendant!....please i really need your help as the fine is £200!!!!

 

 

letter to NCP:

 

i recently recieved a letter about being fined for raising a car park

barrier. I accept that the post in the car park was raised but the

reason this was raised as we tried contacting your ncp as we had a

problem with our ticket not working in your machines (the payment wasnt

being accepted). We heard no replys and there was no staff or security

at the site to help! we even asked local people if they know how to

contact ncp but they couldnt help...we understand it may have been late

but due to circumstances we had no choise! It was early in the morning

and we needed to leave so we could head back to walsall and waiting

around was difficult as the response was poor and no staff to help - i

am sorry about what has happened but as i was put in a circumstance

where there was no help and was waiting for over 60 mins in the car park

and still no reply..i was unable to do anything...i hope out of good

will we could look past this and i understand that these problems do

happen. This has never happened to me before and i have never been in

trouble with NCP EVER! i hope you understand that the problem would never have occurred if there were staff available and machines at the site working correctly...i hope to hear from you soon.

 

 

Response from NCP:

 

Thank you for your recent correspondence regarding the above notice numebr.

 

while i appreciate the circumstances that you have outlined, it does not preclude you from complying with the parking regulations.

 

In light of this i see no grounds for the cancellation of this notice. I request that you make payment of £200 within 28 days from the date of this letter in order to conclude this matter.

[Steve__M]

What does their original letter say?

[nevinders]

Response from NCP:

 

Thank you for your recent correspondence regarding the above notice numebr.

 

while i appreciate the circumstances that you have outlined, it does not preclude you from complying with the parking regulations.

 

In light of this i see no grounds for the cancellation of this notice. I request that you make payment of £200 within 28 days from the date of this letter in order to conclude this matter.

[nevinders]

sorry the original letter that was sent out to me i returned back to NCP - but i have requested for the original copy of the letter to be sent back....there was a time and date written on the letter head, is there anything i can do? i really need help!

[Al27]

Easy!

 

• do not pay

• do not contact them again

• ignore any further letters you receive, no matter how threatening

• they will give up and go away after 4 or 5

 

As you've discovered, there is no appeals process. You will always get back a standard 'appeal rejected' letter. This is a private invoice and a private company will never do themselves out of profit.

 

It's a [problem]. Private companies have no powers to fine people - they just make it sound like they do so you'll be intimidated into paying up.

 

NCP are well known here. You're taking it too seriously - just ignore them and their tricks.

[nevinders]

Hi mate

 

(below).Thanks for the reply - when i look back at the letter sent by NCP there is a final note on the bottom of the letter which i fogot to add on the post (below).

 

 

 

Payment can be made by either

 

sending a cheque or postal order to national car parks

debit or card payments

 

if the payment is not received within this time then the case will continue to progress.

 

You tell me to ignore there messages but they have warnmed me that if the payment isnt recieved then they will take the case further...yes but it my case it was raising a barrier as i had no means of exiting the car park - as a private company cant they send baliffs to my house to collect the payment?

[lamma]

you are in the right - they were detaining you in the car park. don't worry about it at all. post back when NCP send their next letter - they will send more as you contacted them so they think there is a chance you will fall for their [problem]. Not even NCP's greed would make them pursue this to court - you would hammer them in court and so would the judge. It is NCP that failed to fulfill its purported contract not you !

Edited October 28, 2008 by lamma

[nevinders]

Thanks for the messages guys - the only thing that stresses me out is going to court and im not one who wants to attend court!...has anyone been through a smiliar situation with NCP or had any problems about fines to reassure me!

[lamma]

it won't go to court. plenty of help here. fret = no. okay

[Vermillion]

Hmmm,

Reminds me of the story of a burglar who tripped in the dark and sued a householder for damages...

I wonder how long you would have had to wait before the barrier was raised? Could you sue them for false imprisonment, I wonder?

I agree with advice so far - you sound like just the kind of person they target - pretty law abiding, frightened of getting on the wrong side of the law - fair game. Stand your ground.

[nevinders]

so are you all sure that NCP wont take things that far to court?...i have spoken to them on the phone and they are extremely unhelpful and there manager chris sharp at PCCN is useless!

[nevinders]

when i recieve the next letter ill post it on here and ill let you know what actions NCP are taking...Thank you all for the help again!

[lamma]

stop calling them. they care nothing about the rights and wrongs of this, they just want money. they are not going to get it.

[Steve__M]

Is this a slightly different scenario to the normal un-gated private carpark? Is it possible that the owner of a carpark might be a lot more sensitive to people forcing their way out (even if justified). What if the problem was with nevinder's payment card or coins, and they have evidence of another car successfully paying and exiting a bit later?

 

A middle option is to write to them stating that I'm appalled at their inability to accept responsibility for faulty machinery, and to offer only the amount that was due for parking in full and final settlement, stating that without further evidence I dispute their charge. Even if this is rejected it shows a willingness to pay what's due.

 

The small claims court is nothing to be worried about. It's 3 people in a room having a chat. But you need to keep copies of all correspondence.

[Al27]

This will never go to court!

 

You're under the impression that they have a) listened to a word you've said and b) are somehow entitled to £200 because you had the nouce to lift their broken barrier. I'm only surprised that you waited an hour before leaving.

 

Look again: "while i appreciate the circumstances that you have outlined, it does not preclude you from complying with the parking regulations."

 

Do you not see that this is a template letter? The same letter they send to everybody.

 

You're worrying over nothing.

[nevinders]

thanks guys i really appretiate everybodys feedback - ill keep you all informed about what ever happens.

 

PS anyone recommend any kind of template letters i should send out?...

 

Thanks user: Steve__M

 

A middle option is to write to them stating that I'm appalled at their inability to accept responsibility for faulty machinery, and to offer only the amount that was due for parking in full and final settlement, stating that without further evidence I dispute their charge. Even if this is rejected it shows a willingness to pay what's due.

 

im thinking of sending a letter like this to NCP but im not sure when to send it?...im sorry if you guys think im stressing over too much but the last thing i want is my fine to get bigger and i dont want to go to court!

[389shell]

Payment can be made by either

 

sending a cheque or postal order to national car parks

debit or card payments

 

if the payment is not received within this time then the case will continue to progress.

 

 

 

If you are still worried about court, then read the large text. Continue to progress = 4 more letters then we will give up. If they had a cat in hells chance then they would at least threaten to take legal action against you.

 

Worry not, and listen to the advise on here, they WILL give up if you just ignore them. It is a pity you weren't driving a large truck and had someone filming you smashing your way out, I'd give them £200 to see someone do that

[Vermillion]

Rowan Atkinson as Mr Bean? Sure I've seen something about car park problems...

Stick it out mate, post all you get on here. Keep all evidence. Don't reply, however tempting.

[Al27]

PS anyone recommend any kind of template letters i should send out?...

 

Do not send them a letter. As I've said, they will not listen to a word you say and just send you a letter saying paying up.

 

They are private company like Joe Bloggs Plumbers - they just want your cash.

[Vermillion]

I agree, they will just repeat their demand hoping you will give in.

[crem]

 

Look again: "while i appreciate the circumstances that you have outlined, it does not preclude you from complying with the parking regulations."

 

Do you not see that this is a template letter? The same letter they send to everybody.

 

You're worrying over nothing.

 

I agree with Al that there was no "appreciation of the circumstances". If there had been, I would have expected a reply along the lines of "we have investigated your complaint and having checked the machinery found evidence of vehicles successfully leaving the car park both before and after the time of your visit. Therefore we maintain the charge is due."

 

If they had used the second statement then you would at least know they have actually read your letter which, like Al, I doubt they ever did.

[Steve__M]

It certainly does look like a standard reply. But that doesn't preclude NCP from later taking the case more seriously than, say, a parking over the white lines fine.

 

If nevinders was happy to pay for parking in the first instance, I think he'd lose nothing by writing a stiffly worded letter to NCP noting their poor performance but also offering to pay whatever he was attempting to pay on the night stating that the offer is open for 21 days and that he won't negotiate without first seeing all relevant evidence.

 

Very likely they will reject or ignore the offer in the expectation that Nevinders will fold. But Nevinders then has the strong moral high ground which will prevent them later choosing court, and he could safely ignore all future letters. Alternatively, they will accept the offer at which point Nevinders is in the clear.

 

Nevinders, if you want to do this I'd suggest doing it now. I guess it partly depends on the exact circumstances on the night which course you take.

[nevinders]

Hey guys i managed to get hold of the original letter they posted out too me - tell me what you think of the letter and what actions should i take...i thought about what you guys have been saying about ignoring the letters but is that the sensible thing to do?

 

 

Notice of car park contravention

 

date of contravention 26/09/2008

date of issue 10/10/2008

time of contravention 02:47

 

on the 26/09/2008 you were register driver for the vehicle with vehicle registration number ******* when it was recorded by CCTV camera that the above vehicle was involved in the following contravention

 

Damage to Car park Equipment

 

Therefore national car parks believe that a parking charge contravention notice for the amount of £200 is now payable by you for the breach of terms and conditions as displayed in the car park.

 

YOU HAVE 28 DAYS FROM THE DATE OF THIS LETTER TO PAY THE FULL OUTSTANDING CHARGE

 

FAILURE TO PAY MAY RESULT IN NATIONAL CAR PARKS LIMITED INSTRUCTING A DEBT COLLECTION AGENCY TO COLLECT ANY SUM DUE. THE DEBT COLLECTION AGENCY MAY COMMENCE PROCEEDINGS AGAINST YOU IN THE COUNTY COURT AND OBTAIN A COUNTY COURT JUDGEMENT AGAINST YOU. THIS MAY AFFECT YOUR ABILITY TO BORROW MONY OR OBTAIN CREDIT. A WARRANT MAY THEN BE ISSUE TO COUNTY COURT APPOINTED BALIFFS TO RECOVER PAYMENT. YOU WILL ALSO BECOME LIABLE FOR THE ADDITIONAL FEES OF THE DEBT COLLECTION AGENCY, THE COUNTY COURT AND THE BAILIFF.

Edited October 30, 2008 by nevinders

[nevinders]

This is the latest letter ive sent to NCP

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: reference CP

 

I am appalled at your inability to accept responsibility for faulty machinery and the incompetency of your company of not having anyone to attend to a trapped customer late at night.

As is the normal practice, I tried to pay on my way out, but could not do so, due to the faulty machine. Having waited for over one hour for an attendant to come, I became worried and concerned as I was trapped. After many attempts to raise the alarm to my plight of being trapped behind a barrier, no help or assistance came due to faulty equipment. I had no alternative but to raise the barrier manually and thus leave the car park.

I am therefore only offering the normal amount that was due for parking fees as a full and final settlement.

If you don’t accept this final settlement then I will also be pursuing legal action against NCP for illegally detaining me within your car park as false imprisonment and for continuous harassment.

 

As you continue to send threatening letters on my father’s name, who had nothing to do with this, he will issue joint and separate summons for libel and harassment against your company. He has contacted you on many times over this matter.

 

I see your charge as unlawful, unenforceable and I am not liable. I will not be providing any payment and your continued pursuit of this matter will constitute an offence under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997 and “habeas corpus”. I consider this matter closed and I am explicitly instructing you not to contact me or my father again except to confirm the matter is now closed. You have been advised for the final time not to cause further distress and harassment to myself or my father.

 

Yours Sincerely

[Steve__M]

In addition to what I've said, I believe you are entitled to ask them for copies of all CCTV images of you or your car including possibly CCTV images of the engineers undertaking the repairs and/or other evidence of alleged damage, and/or copies of signs/contracts indicating such payments are due.

 

Basically you are either in a position where they are considering proceeding against you, or a position where they will give up and pass it onto debt collectors in the hope that you will cave in.

 

If the former, they should provide you with evidence before they can proceed, and at most they are probably entitled to get back no more than the cost of the repair of the barrier (much less than £200). For that reason, they may choose not to proceed once someone with a brain looks at the actual situation you have described and the time and effort required to collect the evidence.

 

If instead they pass it onto debt collectors it means that they don't intend to proceed. You simply write to the debt collector stating that you are in dispute over the debt and ignore further debt collector letters.

 

Do you think you actually broke the barrier? If so, did you break the mechanism or just the arm? I suspect that barriers are designed not to break if forced (or at least to be easily reparable), but I may be wrong. We have buses driving through the barriered site where I work, and they break about one barrier per week. At £200 a time our profits would be severely hit!