EXPERIAN... The final battle commences

[finlander]

good...its a petition.... meant to be

[finlander]

Surely 10 years is statute barred?.... check with a mod but I'm pretty sure that they can't go after you for that and certainly can't register it:eek:

[finlander]

ALLWOOD,

 

You could always ask them for the £10000 you think they might owe you but you can't remember why exactly. It's just as much legally unenforcable, unprovable etc but they think it's ok so why can't you. In fact lets make it a nice round £1000000. while they are scratching their heads trying to figure out what your on about tell them to get lost ......

[finlander]

seriously tho allwood... these peole rely on the oxygen of verbal communication. It gives them a chance to brow beat you and act big. If they call answer the phone and as soon as it is apparent its a DCA just put it down.

keep the letters they send as future evidence but ignore any threats as the useless flatulance they are. Keep an eye on your credit file just in case they try it on with a default. but don't let them get you down. Its all hot air and rubbish.

 

AND DONT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT.

[finlander]

SOSUMI,

 

I agree they do have power and unfortunately access to all the info they need. And thats great for them and the labour party. For all care they can sit in the office and have information fights by throwing pieces of paper at each other all day. However the moment they publish it that becomes a different matter........ Its the law then.. and the defamation act is powerful....... I think we need the OFT involved as well... I have started a thread here..

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/campaign/153512-attn-moderator-please.html

 

go and have a look and put your comments down to see if we can get CAG to officially back this and sticky it on the front page....

 

We can stop this if we just stand together and get on with it.......

[finlander]

Now if Experian had just removed these defaults... I would have gone away.. but Millsy (good old Millsy) has p*ss*d me off a bit so Im in it for the longterm now.........

[finlander]

Im off folks...work finished home time... will be back tomorrow for some updates... who knows perhaps Millsy(good ole Millsy) will have written to me by then and we can move onto the next stage in the plan......

 

sweet dreams.......

[finlander]

Anyone who hasn't seen this thread

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/campaign/153512-campaign-oft-against-unfair.html

 

please have a look and see if you can give any ideas....

[finlander]

Well.... Im feeling quite unloved now...Millsy (good ole Millsy) hasn't written back yet........... bored... waiting is dull.....who can I annoy as I wait..... I know...... AA Car loans... we are about to pay ours off and I'm sure they charged us a late payment fee once....... will take it out on them

[finlander]

while i'm bored... this is quite interesting. 'the history of plastic cards'

 

As you can see it gets quite frenzied from 1990 on...you can see why so many CCA agreements were wrongly written...

 

APACS WEBSITE: PLASTIC CARDS – HISTORY OF PLASTIC CARDS

In the last half the twentieth century plastic cards have changed the way that we pay for

goods and services. Today, most consumers pay for at least half their purchases with a

plastic card, most large retailers, supermarkets and online shops take plastic as do an

increasing number of professional service providers.

The forerunners of plastic cards are a long way from the sophisticated and widelyaccepted

cards that we are now accustomed to but, none-the-less, laid the foundations

for the convenience and ease-of-use that we now enjoy.

Timeline and milestones

1880 First credit voucher product introduced in the UK by Provident Clothing

Group, a pre-curser to credit cards. Customers were issued with vouchers

that they could use in shops on an approved list and payment was made to

the Provident Clothing rep who called at the customer’s home. This was

the forerunner to credit cards in that (i) payment was made by voucher and

(ii) the customer enjoyed revolving credit.

1914 In the US Western Union provide metal cards giving free deferred payment

privileges to preferred customers, which became known as ‘metal money’.

1924 In the US General Petroleum Corporation issue the first ‘metal money’ for

gasoline and automotive services.

1930s In the US AT&T introduced the “Bell System Credit Card”, closely followed

by railroads and airlines.

1946 A New York banker develops a credit system called Charge-It. When

customers charged local retail purchases, the merchant deposited the

charges at Flatbush National Bank/Biggins Bank and the bank reimbursed

the merchant for the sale. The Bank later collected payment from the

customer.

1950 In the US Diners Club issues plastic payments cards aimed at diners; they

operate as charge cards. The key figure was Frank McNamara, who

launched with assistance of two retailers, Bloomingdales and Sneider.

Initial membership was 200 with the card being accepted in 27 restaurants.

By the end of the year 20,000 people were using Diners Club.

1951 When customers of New York’s Franklin National Bank submitted an

application for a loan they were screened for credit. Approved customers

were given a card they could use to make retail purchases. The merchant

copied the customer information from the sales slip and called the bank for

approval of transactions over a certain amount (the first authorisations!)

1951 First UK credit card available when Donald McCullough launches Finders

Services after a trip to the US (possibly being regarded as the launch of

Diners – see 1962).

1958 American Express introduces its own charge card, and Bank of America

introduces a credit card called BankAmericard.

1962 Diners Club becomes the first major credit card company in Britain

following the merger of Finders Services and Credit Card facilities.

10 Sep 1963 American Express launches the first charge card in the UK with an annual

fee of £3 12s (=£49 in 2005) and a required income of £2,000 (=£27,250 in

2005). Additional cards can be obtained for half price. The card is usable

in 3,000 UK outlets and 83,000 overseas outlets. The only Bank of

England constraint is a £75 limit on a single item for overseas transactions.

1964 Swedish banker Wallenberg founds Eurocard as an alternative to

American Express.

1965 Bank of America develops licensing agreements with other banks enabling

them to issue BankAmericards, becoming the first ‘scheme’.

1966 Fourteen US banks form Interlink for credit card transactions as a rival to

BankAmericard.

29 June 1966 UK’s first credit card issued by Barclays. ‘Barclaycard’ was based on the

BankAmericard that had been issued a few years earlier in the USA. Very

limited international operability: Barclaycard could be used in

Malta/Gibraltar 1967, South Africa 1969 & France 1973, however, these

merchants were recruited directly by Barclaycard (still a 3 party model).

1966 Interbank Card Association (ICA) formed, forerunner to MCI (MasterCard

International)

1967 Four California banks formed the Western States Bankcard Association,

introducing MasterCharge to compete with BankAmericard.

1967 First cash machine (De La Rue) in the world installed by Barclays Bank in

Enfield, Middlesex. Launched in a press call with Reg Varney (On The

Buses; Love Thy Neighbour, etc.) on 27 June. Early dispensers were

designed to receive hole-punched vouchers of £10.00 each purchased by

the customer from the bank and used in the dispenser when needed.

1969 UK domestic cheque guarantee scheme is established.

1969 MCI expands internationally, entering into an alliance in Europe with

Eurocard. Eurocard becomes the sole company authorised to issue

MasterCards in Europe.1969 First ATM in the US in Long island, New York

installed by Chemical Bank.

1971 Bank America surrender control of its card by forming National

BankAmericard Incorporated (NBI) to manage the card in the US.

1972 NatWest, Midland, Lloyds & RBS join together to issue the Access credit

card under the Joint Credit Card Company (JCCC).

1972 Lloyds Bank ‘Cashpoint’ is the first on-line ATM using plastic cards with a

magnetic stripe.

1974 Consumer Credit Act (Section 75) provides protection to consumers buying

goods costing between £30 and £10,000 (£100 and £30,000 in 2005) on

their credit card: if the product turns out to be sub-standard, or fails to be

delivered, the cardholder can claim compensation from the card-issuing

bank. The Act (Section 84) also limits customer liability to no more than

£50 if cards are stolen, and used by someone else. This liability is often

waived entirely. If the fraud occurs while the card stays in the person's

possession, for example where card details have been stolen, they are not

liable at all.

April 1975 Access and Carte Bleu affiliate to the Interbank Card Association (which

becomes MasterCard in 1983), expanding acceptance internationally.

1977 BankAmericard becomes Visa, Barclays is a founder member. IBANCO

becomes Visa International. NBI becomes Visa US.

1977 Barclaycard issues the first UK company card – hitherto cards had been

issued only to individuals.

1 July 1977 Consumer Credit Act comes into force.

1979 MasterCharge becomes MasterCard.

1980s The UK moves to ‘duality’, i.e. banks begin to issue both Visa and Access

cards. Subsequently, the Access consortium begins to break-up, and

disappears as a brand as MasterCard gains recognition in the UK.

Affiliating to the international brands brings world-wide acceptance to the

UK-issued cards. Early/mid 80s saw the introduction of electronic

terminals.

1985/86 LINK cash machine network established (33 members including Abbey

National, Nationwide, Co-Operative Bank, Girobank etc), essentially

enabled by the 1986 Building Societies Act.

1986 Matrix cash machine network established (A&L, Anglia, Bradford &

Bingley, Britsol & West, Leeds, National & Provincial, Woolwich etc)

1987 Debit cards introduced: again, Barclays were the first UK bank on the

scene issuing the Visa Delta card under the Connect brand in June.

1987 Four bank cash machine network established (Barclays, Lloyds, RBS,

BoS)

1988 Switch debit card launched by Midland, NatWest and RBS, who later

incorporated Switch into a separate company and extended ownership to

other banks to issue the card. First Switch transaction October 1988.

1988 Visa test the world’s first multi-function chip card, the SuperSmart card, in

Japan.

1989 £100 and £250 cheque guarantee limits introduced.

1989 MINT cash machine network established (Midland, NatWest, TSB,

Clydesdale, Northern Bank).

1989 LINK and Matrix cash machine networks merge.

1990s The early 1990s see increased competition, notably with an influx of card issuers from the USA. Cards begin to be increasingly sophisticated, tailored more to individual customer needs, and exploit the so-called niche markets. Emergence of affinity cards and cards issued by non-financial

institutions.

1990 France introduces chip and PIN based upon France-only B0’ standard.

1990 Cashback emerges as a means of acquiring cash (7m transactions in

1990).

1992 MasterCard launch the Maestro brand for its international debit card.

1993 Half of UK adults are regular users of cash machines.

1994 Half of UK adults hold a debit card.

1995 UK debit card volumes exceed credit card volumes for the first time.

3 Jul 1995 Mondex public trials start in Swindon.

1995 Product innovation leads to the issuing of gold cards and, eventually, other

‘status symbol’ cards with additional features overtly marketed only to highincome

customers.

Mar 96 One-billionth cash machine transaction processed by LINK.

1996 The average UK cash machine withdrawal exceeds £50 for the first time.

1996 Visa Electron launched and…

1997 …the Switch Solo card is introduced to offer a closer level of financial

management. As every transaction is pre-authorised, banks are able to

market the card to a wider range of customers, especially to younger card

holders such as students, and to link cards to savings/investment

products.1998 UK debit card payments exceed personal cheques, and

account for more than half of all non-cash spending in supermarkets.

1997 UK chip trials in Northampton and Dunfermline ran between October 1997

and April 1998, with over 117,000 cards issued, 535 terminals installed in

463 outlets, and 14 ATMs. Over 90,000 POS transactions and 100,000

ATM transactions took place.

1997 VisaCash public trials start in Leeds.

1998 UK’s first cash machine not owned by a financial institution installed by

Bank Machine.

1999 Half of all UK adults hold a credit card. The average value of a credit card

purchases exceeds £50 for the first time.

1999 Internet card issuers (eg, Egg, Smile, Marbles) join the market place.

1999 Annual fees disappear, extras such as travel insurance, loyalty schemes,

begin to be offered to attract customers, who are beginning to hold more

than one card each.

1999 Euro comes into being, allowing euro-denominated transactions for the first

time.

2000s Aggressive pricing (eg, zero/low interest rate offers) position credit cards

as a cheaper form of personal short-term borrowing than loans.

2000 Cash machine networks consolidate at LINK.

2000 General withdrawal of charges for using cash machines across the bankowned

cash machine estate. First cash machines deployed by the

Independent ATM Deployers (IADs).

2001 More than half of UK retail spending is on plastic. More than 100 million

card payments are made on-line.

2001 First year that cash machine withdrawals exceeded one billion during the

year.

2001 Debit card expenditure exceeds credit card expenditure for the first time.

2001 Europay and MasterCard announce merger plans to become MasterCard

International.

2002 Chip and PIN announced in the UK – biggest consumer change

programme since, or including, decimalisation.

2002 More than half of all cash acquired by UK adults is acquired through cash

machines. Mobile-phone top ups become available at cash machines for

the first time.

2003 More than half of all UK adults regularly use debit cards. The average

number of credit cards per adult exceeds two for the first time.

2003 UK chip and PIN trials in Northampton.

29 Sep 03 The mainland UK’s first cash machine dispensing Euro notes installed at

Old Broad Street in the City by NatWest.

2004 Switch is re-branded to Maestro.

2004 UK card expenditure exceeds cash expenditure for the first time. The

average debit card user spends over £100 per week.

2004 HBoS launch the first cashback reward debit card.

Doesn't say '2008 all went tits up' tho so not that accurate;)

[finlander]

TheCteam,

Very interesting letter from Mr Hancock. I like the way he constantly goes on about the Cca and all it’s nice little ways of filing defaults and keeping people like him in stripey braces by registering them. There is only one problem with his argument and his constant references to the CCA just seem to draw attention to it.

The problem is that the CCA was designed outline your rights as a debtor and the lenders. It gives you all the prescribed terms etc to allow you to choose the best deal etc and then make your mind up. For the lender it gives them a framework to enforce the debt if you stop paying.

Naughty you.

What a great piece of law. However… If the lender breaks his bit and doesn’t give you what he should he forfeits the protection of the act. That is why it is not possible for the agreement to be enforced. Therefore all the lovely default notices described in the act don’t apply to someone who has already breached its basic principle. That is why the judge ruled in Wilson v First Counties Trust that it ceased to be a debt and became a gift. The CCA has as much relevance to your alleged debt as chalk does to cheese. And as the default can only be registered under the CCA it can’t therefore be lawfully registered.

I would write back to Mr Hancock and say that however interesting he find it listening to his own twittering on the CCA his musings have no relevance to this alleged debt as the OC has forfeited this right to the protection of this act. It is not his job to mediate in disputes over agreements but it is his job to ensure he prints the truth and he should damn well pray he is doing so now. He is certainly already in breach of the DPA and is further defaming your name on a daily basis. After not having a proper agreement they have as much right to put a ‘registered sex offender’ mark against your name as a default.

In other words NONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As to the arguments about conduct of account, 6 years etc. Wonderful..They admit it again..We have no intention of going to court. Of course they haven’t when they are going to lose. Prime example of judge, jury and executioner. They go to court quick enough when they have an agreement hence the amount of ccj's issued. Keep that letter we will need it soon in the campaign we started. We need as many of these self obsessed puffed up little napoleons incriminating themselves as we can get.

As I have said from the start. Write one more letter but this time bung in the Reply to defamation bit from my last letter. Get the ball rolling. Once you have started you can always wait in the wings until me and sparkie have finished before progressing.

[finlander]

i got to sit down and get this last letter(haha last my foot) right and to the point. im not the best letter writer so will be taking a bit of time to put it together. to send back to him

 

Ok mate if you need any help pm me...

[finlander]

I did say I was bored waiting for Millsy (good ole Millsy) and annoying Mr Hancock sounds like much more fun than chasing AA for 35 quid

[finlander]

Just to let everyone know..Millsy has replied..his letter is long, complicated and as far as I can see completelt deviod of any arguement that will stand up in a court. I will draft a reply and send it on to him in the next few days. watch this space;)

[finlander]

Ok a brief summary.........

 

Millsy was being vey obtuse........ basically a bit insulting and said 'go on sue us then'

 

oh by the way sparkie millsy says you can't sue for defamation in the county court!... well must be true millsy said it:rolleyes:

 

I will give a much more detailed breakdown later......... but I think I will be taking him up on the sueing bit.

 

will post more soon.

[finlander]

Ok.. Lets give you an outline of what Milsy had to say.

Be aware though that it is becoming increasingly apparent that Experian are reading this thread. So do not say anything that they can use as defamation against them.

From now on we are about to enter the court stage of this so the postings will get more vague. That is to avoid giving away tactics to the spy’s on here.

Ok well milsy’s response was divided into sections to address each point,

They basically consisted of this.

Ø What Experian's responsibilities were? Printout of their terms and conditions

Ø A confirmation that the notices of correction were put on.

Ø A rebuke for to me saying that the case of a wrongly filed report incurring £1000 damages didn’t apply to me as the case was about a wrongly bounced check.

Ø A paragraph about how defamation can’t be heard in the county court, the pre-trial protocol don’t exist and that even though they don’t exist they deny all claims as there reply letter.

Ø A copy of a judgement concerning a couple called Rankin who tried to have their agreements ruled unenforceable but failed with a veiled ‘beware’ undercurrent.

Ø A denial that saying that ‘ it is not defamation to say you haven’t paid a debt when you haven’t’

Ø A denial of any breach of the DPA and copy of the ICO’s standard letter

Ø And lastly a statement saying we will defend all action please mark all papers for Milsy.

Ok as you can imagine Milsy, with his ‘Head of Intellectual property etc’ tag, has p*#sed me off a bit. His letter seems quite well written at first until you read it properly. Then it turns into the usual week, transparent claptrap.

What really annoys me is the misleading statements about not being allowed to take defamation to the county court, the pre-trial rules not applying and quoting a judgement that has about as much bearing on my case as the case of WINNE THE POOH v FIVE ACRE WOOD!!!

Well let battle commence. Sparkie any help with case law etc greatly appreciated.

Milsy (good old Milsy)…. YOU WANT A FIGHT…YOU’VE GOT ONE!

And by the way all letters will be marked for your attn and a copy sent to each member of your board. So when you lose they know whom to blame!

Mr Finlander , Head of the Sky remote control, Keeper of the Kitty Litter and Trustee of the Lawn mower.

[finlander]

sparkie,

 

He was being obtuse. Trying to say that I think that the case was the same when in fact it was the judges remarks concerning the importance of someones credit report that was the point. For the head of intelectual property he seems to be showing a marked lack of it. Never mind we shall educate him.

 

I forgot to mention. One thing he didn't enswer in his letter was 'WHAT IS THE DEFINITION OF A DEFAULT'

 

but his company bumf he sent through does.

 

It says that it is issued under the CCA and means that I have failed to keep to the terms of my agreement. Interesting ... what agreement...?

[finlander]

interesting...one

[finlander]

interesting one guest watching again.........

[finlander]

guset gone...surprise......

[finlander]

[finlander]

Sparkie...

 

Its all usefull and will be collated... as you can imagine what with Guests watching I am not prepared to lay all cards on the table. Needless to say Milsy will be getting a response soon but he will probably readit on here before it arrives in the post.

 

Wonder how the court will view spying on here when it says that you have to decalre who you are to a moderator.

 

Hope they arnt doing it from an experian computer. Thats tracable you know............

[finlander]

you know milsy said that the pre-trial protocol for defamation didn't exist?

 

funny that but.........

 

PRACTICE DIRECTION - DEFAMATION CLAIMS - This practice direction supplements Part 53

 

the government seems to think it does????????? does that mean Milsy didn't know this or that he wasn't being entirely honest with lil ole me......

[finlander]

Me thinks Milsy (good ole milsy) was flying a kite. Ok well next letter will include the copy of the judgement above describing a unenforcable agrrement as gift. A copy of the Pre-trial protocols and asking Milsy if he intends to abide by them or not.

 

I will also ask milsy for a copy of my credit agreement and all the documents he will rely on as evidence.

 

It will also combine some of the stuff sparkie has supplied and will basically say put up or shut up.

 

If he puts up it is an N1 to the high court next.

[finlander]

bluesmartie,

 

That would again appear to back us up. We accept that it is not a gift. But the judge is saying that the creditor has rights but they are unenforcable. If they are unenforcable then enforcment is not possible. therefore a default cannot be a pre-cursor to enforcement. IT CANNOT EXIST as NO ENFORCEMENT IS POSSIBLE.

 

The fundamentals of this is that a default is a method of enforcement or a precluder to enforcement. None of that is realsitically possible if the agreement is unenforcable. therefore it should not be registered. It would be avery twisted act that would forfiet all rights of enforcement but allow a default which is almost as destructive.