Endowment churned

[lizzy40]

I was hoping someone could give me some advise on a endowment problem, however its not straight forward.

 

I need to provide the FOS with evidence that my orignal endowment was cancelled and a new one started on the advise of a mortgage broker.

 

This is bad advise but didn't realise at the time as it happened in the early 90's and my knowledge very vage on financial matters.

 

No more premiuns were paid into my 1st policy when the 2nd policy started the fos said this is not evidance however to me its obvious why would I start another poilcy all I needed was a top up on the 1st policy. I could understand if I wanted to continue with the first policy as an extra investment but their is no way I could have afforded to pay two polices for the full mortgage.

 

I've tried to get information from the company who my original policy was with but they don't hold details going back that far.

 

What I was wondering could I do a CPR on the company that my new endowment policy is with as I now know the adviser apparently worked for them. He may have documented key facts down you never no.

 

Just don't know what else I can do maybe someone can give me a glimmer of hope and advise me of what else I can try?

 

Lizzy

[tiglet]

Bump

[remorse]

I've tried to get information from the company who my original policy was with but they don't hold details going back that far.

 

What I was wondering could I do a CPR on the company that my new endowment policy is with as I now know the adviser apparently worked for them. He may have documented key facts down you never no.

 

 

Hi Lizzy,

 

I think from what you are saying that the policy that you hold now was sold by a tied adviser, therefore, I would hope that the current company that you are with would hold evidence of the current sale as well as details of why it was sold over a previous endowment. In theory (and in a majority of cases) a company should retain details of a customers policy 7 years post the end date of a relationship with a customer ie, surrender, termination etc.

 

The only potential fly in the ointment so to speak is if it was an introducer which is where the adviser works for another company but is authorised to introduce the business to another company. This would, therefore, mean that the endowment company will not hold records of why it was sold etc.

 

Request the information from your endowment provider and make sure they let you know if they are still paying commission (if that was how it was set up which tbh, was the norm for the period of your sale) and to whom. If the policy was sold by an introducer it is possible that they are still receiving commission and, therefore, they should still be holding the records.

 

If you need help with untangling any information you get, please let me know.

 

I'll also put my thinking cap on over the day to see if there is anything else you can do.

 

D x

[lizzy40]

Thanks for your help.

 

I do have a copy of the fact find but this to me seems like a complete waste of time there are lots of discrepancies with some of the information even the mortagae lender is wrong. Also my policy is stated as paid up not sure what I'm going to do with it at the moment but would the adviser still get commissions on a paid up policy?

[remorse]

Hi Lizzy,

 

From what you are saying your first endowment is still running albeit paid up ie, it still has a value. I would suggest that you get hold of a copy of the premium history as well as a copy of the letter in which you requested that the policy be paid up. This will give details of the dates and could tie in with establishing the new plan.

 

The factfind being incorrect is slightly concerning as it should have been explained to you that the advice being given was done so on the basis of the factfind. If the policy is noted as being paid up, when it wasn't and you have signed to it, the FOS may consider that the advice given was correct based on the information. I am, therefore, conscious that the 'reason why letter' which you should also have received may not mention why the policy was paid up as the factfind does not detail it as live.

 

A couple of things to try and get hold of would be from both providers: a copy of the policy schedule, t&c's of the endowments along with the sum assured which could show enough evidence of a churn. It is possible that the cover provided by the second policy was more superior than the first but this does call into question a few of the points ie, factfind showing the policy as paid up as you would normally expect that if you were replacing a policy with a more superior policy why would you show it as paid up.

 

I assuming that you are still paying into the 2nd policy so I would check with both of the providers about commission and whether it is still being paid and to whom.

 

HTH

 

D x

[lizzy40]

I don't think I have explained it correctly, it is a little complicated.

 

I already had an endowment policy with my exsisting mortgage provider. When I remortgaged with a different lender the exsisting policy wasn't used or topped up. I was told that I needed to take another endowment policy out for the full mortgage. The 1st endowment had only been running for about 3 years and this was cancelled. The 2nd policy is now stated as paid up.

 

(The 2nd policy was time barred and the company concerned wouldn't compensate me for mis selling but thats another story).

 

Regarding the fact find it states that I took a mortgage out with abbey but we didn't. It also says under the policy recommened section

which the adviser has wrote " whole of finances to be arranged to mitigate outgoings and allow better investment"

 

I think the better investment was for him?

 

All this only come to light when I was investigating my 2nd policy for being mis sold. I believe this to be bad practice and he shouldn't have advised me to cancel the 1st policy.

[remorse]

Hiya,

 

Thank you for the clarification. As the 1st policy was only running for 3 years and the company's comment that they don't hold records going back that far, I suspect that the policy had no value when you cancelled it and as they only need to keep records from 7 years after a relationship ends, I don't think they are going to be forthcoming. However, I would still write to them saying that you are in correspondence with the ombudsman regarding a churn of this policy and would be grateful if they could provide you with anything that they hold regarding your policy - premium history, copy of your cancellation letter and anything else they can provide that may assist your conversations with the ombudsman.

 

Your idea about asking for your file from the 2nd company is well worth doing, however, you need to make sure that the company you write to is the company that will be holding the sales information. If you want to PM me details of who holds your endowment and who the sellers company was I should be able to find out where you need to write to.

 

If I was adjudicating your case, I believe you but what is missing is the evidence which I fear may be hard to come by to prove your claim. If there is anything that I can do, please let me know.

 

Kind regards

 

D x

[lizzy40]

Your up early!

 

Thanks for getting back to me.

 

I have tried to get the information from the first policy company but all they can tell me is the date it was cancelled. What I need is for the endowment company to hold some kind of information or document which has come from the adviser authorising cancellation of the policy. I know I would have had to sign for this action but it would show he was in control of following up this action.

 

Regarding the 2nd policy I was under the impression that the adviser worked for the company the endowment is with.

 

Thanks so much for your help.

 

Lizzy

[lizzy40]

I was wondering if someone can give me some advise on what to do on how to retrieve my records from a endowment policy.

 

I get a little confused with a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) as I'm not asking for details of payments or debits I want to find out all written information they hold on my account from the date it was set up. Can I do a Civil procedure rules request or is this only used when court action is threatened?