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    • Lowell has written to me concerning this debt on the 23rd of Jan 2020. letter states: We have noted the contents of your letter and we understand that you have no knowledge of this account. We are able to offer the following information regarding the account. • Agreement start date: 19/06/2014 • Application address: Flat 4, 3 Kempsford Gardens • Tariff Description: Phone BB Hardware • Disconnect Reason: Cessation by BT • Original Creditor: BT Retail Consumer • Mobile Number:02078351401 ( this is a landline ) • Client last payment date: 16/12/2014 • Client last payment value: 86.16 this is not £499.00 • Default date: 27/08/2015, this doesn't square with last pay date. • Airtime Debt Value:257.94 • Early Terminate Fee:241.99, can they charge this? • Billing Date:27/03/15 LOW105_230120 497503_ MACHINE \ 116\247 \ lof2 \ Airtime Debt is for the services used and the Early Termination Fee is calculated to reflect the remaining months of your contract which remain unpaid from the date of your account closure. We have requested from BT PLC a copy of the statements for the account to help clarify this matter for you. We will write to you further once we have received this documentation and in the meantime your account is on hold.   I obtain the SAR. it is attached: this is all they hold. 1. Can you explain the implications of the response  and the SAR as far as Lowell being able to collect the debt?   2. I responded to Lowell with this letter: Lowell Financial Ltd. 4875 Dear Sir: I write to you in response to your letter of 23 January 2020. Insofar that a relationship may have existed between myself and BT I cannot recall this account (Agreement) and request that you supply me with a copy of the Account/Agreement and other documents listed in the bullet points of your response. I  deny any breach  of the purported agreement. You have failed to supply me with a copy of the agreement requested . I have never received any evidence that you are the legal owner of the debt, by assignment, sale and purchase agreement or otherwise. I have never received and am unaware of any legal notice of assignment or Notice of Assignment pursuant to Law and property Act 1925 Section 136(1). This document is not referenced in your response. I deny that I have failed  to maintain the required payments to BT. It is denied that I have failed to respond to demands for payment sent by you and/or its agents. Lowell is put to strict proof that any such demands have been sent to me by you. a). Lowell appears to  admit it is the assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Lowell has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act 1925.  b). It is further denied any funds are due Lowell  because the Lowell appears to have sold this debt to another firm in 2019.  Lowell must therefore show how it has legal right, either under statue or equity to collect this sum from me. I  deny owing any money to Lowell  and you are required to produce evidence to support your claims that this sum is in default, due and owning this includes: a. Show how the I  entered into an Agreement. b. Show how I  have reached the amount claimed for. c. Show that I  failed to maintain the required payments and the service was terminated as claimed. d. Show that the statute of limitations on this alleged debt has not passed. 7. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4) it is expected that Lowell must  prove the allegations that the money is owed; having been provided with written requests for information under CPR 31.14 and to date have failed to provide any such documentation as detailed in its response letter.  8. Notwithstanding the above should the alleged amount claimed include an early termination charge(s) amounting to the entire balance of the remaining contract. OFCOM guidance states that any Early Termination Charge that is made up of the entire balance if the remaining contract is unlikely to be fair as it fails to consider the fact that the provider no longer has to provide and pay for their service.  You state that the balance due includes £241.99. You must remove this from any collection efforts, and I dispute that this and all other balances are owed by me. 9. Show that I was residing at Flat 4 3 Kempsford Gardens on the alleged defaulted date of 27/08/2015 or any other date after 16/12/2014.  Alternatively remove any debt you allege is owed  because back billing and billing for unused services is not allowed. 10. Please explain Lowell reporting to the credit bureaus that the debt outstanding to BT is £674. The account number concerning 3 Kempsford Gardens Flat 4 which I hold is another account number which is BT xx7 start date is 15/07.2013. 11. The account number you claim is owed to you is an original account number BT xxx 07. You claim the start date on this account is 19/06/2014. Please explain the discrepancy between these two accounts including ownership of both accounts, and why there are two accounts you allege for the same address with different dates. Alternatively, if you have no explanation: You must cease and desist from collection activity including reporting to the credit bureaus, pre claim letters and any other forms of collection activity with immediate effect. Please write to me confirming that you will take no further action. Failing this I will file a counterclaim and ask the court for costs. Kind Regards      I received the email below last night: "I can see that we also hold the following account details for you:   Account Number Original Client Original Client Reference Current Balance XXX192 Orange xxx321 £285.91 XXX875 BT PLC xxx207 £499.93   I can see that the above BT PLC account is currently on hold, as we are requesting information from BT PLC directly.   1. how long does BT have to respond? the date of Lowell letter was 23rd of Jan. 2. if BT doesn't respond within that time frame, what can I do to get the account removed from the Credit reports? . 3. how can I get Lowell to stop collection if BT doesn't respond? what is also interesting is I have a letter from Lowell for the orange account and also a BT account, but the balance is £199.11 and the account number ends in 192. There are too many account numbers with different balances for the same address. any suggestions how I address this with Lowell?   Lowell writes:   "The period for recovering your Orange account by court action has expired. We will not be issuing court proceedings to enforce payment. However, your debt still exists and legally we are within our rights to continue to ask you for repayment. With this being said, this account does not look to have a payment arrangement set up as of yet. How would you like to proceed with this account going forward? If you can let us know then we can look to assist you further".   If the time has expired to collect a debt from orange, how do they have a right to collect? seems the SOL runs for both. how should I respond?   In the meantime, I have placed your Vodafone and Orange accounts on hold for the next 30 days to give you time to get back to us.   Can you give me some suggestions on how I unravel this and respond? Thank you.  SAR_BT.pdf
    • Hello and welcome to CAG.   Could you tell us what your contract says about overtime please? It will help us to advise you.   HB
    • Hi there,   I've been on a on call rota for some years now which as been a 1 in 3 weeks and been paid a weekly allowance for this service and overtime paid extra should I be called out. My employer now wants to change this to a 1 in 4 weeks which now leaves me out of pocket just for the on call payments a year.   Do I have an argument that i am effectively been force to take a pay cut and that i should be compensaited accordingly ?   thanks in advance for any advise.   Fred.      
    • hi again     the original supplier was AO but was out of warranty with them so hotpoint took it up.    the oven was replaced around January time, with us notifying them we was not happy fairly shortly after delivery.  hotpoint said the exact same model, which was delivered HUD61PS - but is only the same on model number. (Which I think is naughty as they changed a major function)       
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jysmystry

Jysmystry V's NatWest - Round 2

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Here we go,

 

This is a NatWest Credit Card Account, the scenario is described in my letter below. In sumamry the account is £1668.08 overdrawn and £1199.92 is the true amount, the rest is overlimit abd late payment fee's.

 

The previosu balance was cleared and that cleared balance contained a further £441 of bank charges. I'm not mentioning that yet though but of course as we all know this will mean the default notice was wrong :)

 

Further to that this account was passed to the monkies at Wescots who couldn't produce any agreement (details of that in the link in my sig).

 

I'm trying the nicely nicely approach that Car2403 (thanks for the letter bud) went down with O2 and we shall see where this gets us. a negative response and we go down the standard road (CCA, S.A.R - (Subject Access Request), s.10/20 notices) but i have my fingers crossed this won't happen as i'll be almost garenteed stay until after October :(

 

NatWest

Insolvency and Client Support

PO Box 5747

Southend-on-sea

SS1 9AJ

 

BY RECORDED MAIL

 

My Ref: XXXXX Your Ref: Acc No. XXXX

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Offer of reduced settlement, conditional on default removal; Account XXXXX

 

Having recently reviewed my personal financial position, along with a copy of my credit file obtained from Experian, Call Credit and Equifax, I was concerned to note that numerous missed payments and ultimately a “default” has been loaded with these “for profit” agencies against this account in my name – this is a situation that I would like to remedy as soon as possible.

 

As such I would like you to consider acceptance of a payment in reduced settlement to clear this debt – as part of this settlement, I would like to negotiate the removal of the default on my credit file. I feel it may be helpful If I explain the circumstances surrounding why this account ended up in this position. In December 2005 I moved house and as part of the Mortgage I arranged I borrowed money to consolidate my several minor outstanding debts which included this account. I rang NatWest and advised of my new address and believed the account closed as no further statements were received at my new address. It would seem however the account was not in fact closed

 

In March 2007 I received a notice of debt collection from Wescot Credit Services Ltd seeking the recovery of an unpaid debt of £1668.08 and this of course prompted me to seek copy statements from yourselves which I did in April 2007 as the amount was, as far as I was concerned, an extraordinary figure.

 

The statements you supplied explained the situation. 3 payments of £599.96 by Enterprise Rent-A-Car had significantly inflated the almost minimal balance and although one payment was returned the remaining two were not. Those payments were unauthorised, without my knowledge and fraudulent. I have been in discussions with Enterprise Rent-A-Car and they had confirmed this in writing. They have refunded me the payments they had taken and they have passed the matter to the Devon and Cornwall Police who they tell me are investigating the matter. I have correspondence from Enterprise with the finer details if you would wish to see them. NatWest have also inflated the outstanding balance significantly by the repeated application of late payment and over limit fee’s on a monthly basis thereafter.

 

As I believed the account was cleared, as I did not receive monthly statements to advise me otherwise, and as I am the victim of fraud I hope you can agree that it has never been my intention to avoid payment. Indeed, I actively sought to clear this debt in the first instance.

 

I am willing to negotiate settlement with you with the aim of avoiding such situations again in future. I am also further trying to improve my credit file, as I have a very high rate of interest being applied to my mortgage account, amongst others, that are a direct result of adverse credit, such as this account. With the exception of this specific account my credit file is in good shape and shows an accurate record of my payment history with my various creditors. Given the situation described above and in consideration of the make up of the current balance of the account I believe we can come to an amicable resolution which suits both parties.

 

To clarify, I am currently in a position to consider a reduced offer from you to settle this outstanding balance. As part of that settlement, I would like you to consider removal of the missed payment and default marker on my account for the reasons outlined in this letter, as a gesture of goodwill. If you can make a satisfactory offer of reduced settlement and agree to remove the default marker, I would be very keen to consider such an offer at this time.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Mr Jysmystry


************************

 

DCA Theats: Jystmystry V's Wescot - I Win (link)

Default Removal: Jystmystry V's NatWest - In Progress (link)

General Debt - Jysmystry v's Optical Express (link)

 

You can run but you'll just die tired

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Guest Old_andrew2018

any more news

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not a sausage as yet but they are always slow I have found.


************************

 

DCA Theats: Jystmystry V's Wescot - I Win (link)

Default Removal: Jystmystry V's NatWest - In Progress (link)

General Debt - Jysmystry v's Optical Express (link)

 

You can run but you'll just die tired

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Ooooh, we have had a reply. This has to be THE most polite letter i have ever had from Wescots and is actually quite encouraing. They even have gotten a new logo so business must be booming!

 

Anyway, Natwest sent it on and i have been allocated a "Process and Complience Co-ordinator". I feel very special and am look forward to hearing more.

 

I will be interested to see what offer they can make bearing in mind they are nearly a full year outside the 12+30 days for CCA request, i never had a default notice, 60% of the bill was bank charges and the rest of the debt was the result of credit card fraud and oh lets not forget they have defaulted me every month for the past year for this single debt (which they dont have the agreement for of course).

 

I also wonder if this means Wescots have reached a conclusion to the "investigation" into the complaint i didn't even make last March (2007).

 

I guess we are gonna find out eh :)

 

Mind, so long as the 7 defaults they have registered gets removed ill be happy. Can always revisit the bank charges once the default is gone.

 

so many thoughts in my head right now, none of them evil ones so i'm just gonna see where this goes, can tighten the thumbscrews later if need be so will play nice whilst they are :)

 

Jy-Natwest1.jpg


************************

 

DCA Theats: Jystmystry V's Wescot - I Win (link)

Default Removal: Jystmystry V's NatWest - In Progress (link)

General Debt - Jysmystry v's Optical Express (link)

 

You can run but you'll just die tired

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K, the latest update...

 

Dear Mr Jusmystry

 

We are authorised by our client to offer you a reduced figure of *£400 reduction* in PARTIAL SETTLEMENT of the account. This is subject to the condition that full payment is made before 30th May 2008. You can pay by credit/debit card or by cheque clearly marking your account number of the reverse. Failiure to pay in full by the above date will result in the full amount becoming due and payable.

 

As regards to your credit file, upon reciept of your payment our client would amend your credit file to show as satisfied and this would remain on your credit file for a period of 6 years

 

And my response....

 

Dear Ms. Wescots,

 

OFFER OF REDUCED SETTLEMENT

 

Thank you for your letter dated XX April 2008.

 

Might I immediately turn down your offer of reduced settlement in partial payment of the account.

 

I admit to being disappointed at your response. I did initially feel there was a sincere desire on your part to negotiate a fair resolution to this issue however, having considered your offer, it strikes me as being a very limp olive branch indeed considering your position.

 

As such please seek instruction from your client as to the next steps. I remain receptive to an offer of settlement which includes removal of the default information loaded with the Credit Reference Agencies. Please note the removal of this information is my only concern and as such I am unable to consider any offer which does not guarantee this as the final outcome. That being the case however please do not mistake this as an attempt to avoid payment. I do not seek to avoid my responsibilities towards my creditors in any way shape or form. I do however have a honest and sincere dispute over the amount they state I own and the accuracy of the information they have processed in respect of this. Therefore I withhold any payment on the account whilst this dispute continues, a position I’m sure you appreciate. Further my withholding any payment on the account is, unfortunately, the most effective way to facilitate constructive consideration of the matters at hand.

 

In considering your response to this letter please understand that I am currently under no obligation to make you any payment of any kind. On 5th April 2007 I submitted to you a properly made request under S.78(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (c. 39) and to date you have failed to provide that information. You therefore committed the offence laid down by s.78(6) Consumer Credit Act 1974 on 25th May 2007. You have no authority to act on any instruction from your client in seeking to recover this debt and I shall consider any attempt to do so as harassment. Your only option should you wish to pursue this debt is to start litigation which would of course be defended most strenuously.

 

Please also bear in mind the following points: -

 

  • The alleged debt (both that already paid onto the account and the amount allegedly remaining) are largely comprised of bank charges which may, or may not, turn out to be unlawful. Beginning action to recover those charges from your client would seem to me to be my best option should you respond negatively and would of course be subject to the usual stay in light of the protracted test cases. You would of course be further prevented continuing collection activity whilst the account was subject to legal action.

  • Both your client and yourselves have failed to provide me with a copy of the Credit agreement and have as such both committed the offence set out in s.78(6) Consumer Credit Act 1974.

  • Your client has not provided me with a copy of the default notice making the debt unenforceable.

  • Even if they have a copy of a default notice (which I will swear on Oath that I did not receive) that notice will similarly comprise of bank charges and therefore be inaccurate.

  • With regard to both the above two points failure of a Default to be accurate not only invalidates the Default (Woodchester Lease Management Services Ltd v Swain & Co NLD 14 July 1998) but is an unlawful rescission of contract which would not only prevent the Court enforcing any alleged debt, but give the Claimant a claim for damages. (Kpohraror v Woolwich Building Society [1996] 4 All ER 119)

  • Your client has placed defaults with the CRA’s multiple times for the same debt. This in itself is unfair processing of data and warrants destruction of all that data in any case.

  • Any one of the above would offer me the opportunity to seek a court Order forcing the destruction of that data.

Whilst both your client and yourselves will no doubt disregard the above please do not fail to understand that this is a position upon which I’m utterly convinced. My sole interest here is default removal and I sincerely believe I have a strong and honest case to achieve this. Further to this I contend that my data has been processed unfairly by your client to blackmail me into paying. I do not wish to have to go to court to resolve this as I believe this may be satisfied between us amicably. Please note at this juncture that it was me who approached you seeking to resolve this matter. Wescot’s had, for the past 12 months, been “investigating” a complaint that I hadn’t made prior to my renewed intervention presumably on the basis that you realised recovery of the debt was not possible. Whilst I wish to avoid bringing this matter to the courts attention I will not hesitate to escalate the matter if you force me to do so by ignoring my concerns.

 

As such I offer you again the opportunity, in your now enlightened position, to make an offer of reduced settlement which includes nothing less than the full destruction of all data loaded by your client with the Credit Reference Agencies. Please note I will require a written guarantee of the removal of the data from your client, not yourselves and please also note that marking the debt as satisfied (given that doing so makes no difference at all to the damage caused to my credit record) will not be considered.

 

I look forward to your response. If your instructions are to respond negatively please advise me in writing at your earliest convenience. This will be necessary as I will wish to offer you written confirmation that this account is to be placed in dispute for the reasons given above and I do not wish you to continue your attempts to collect on the account whilst I begin litigation against your client.

 

I do not intend to pursue your non-compliance with my CCA request at this time however presumably once I begin litigation you will abandon all collection activity on the account. If this is not the case I reserve the right to begin making complaints as regards license fitness.

 

I look forward to your response.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Mr Jysmystry

 

 

Will they carry out another "investigation" or will they actually do something constructive? Watch this space.

Edited by jysmystry
removing my name!

************************

 

DCA Theats: Jystmystry V's Wescot - I Win (link)

Default Removal: Jystmystry V's NatWest - In Progress (link)

General Debt - Jysmystry v's Optical Express (link)

 

You can run but you'll just die tired

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Had a reply. I like these sort of letters.

 

Next steps...Probably the Surlybonds letter, a S.10/12, a SAR and a CCA to Natwest. I'll gather the info before i decide what to do.

 

img005.jpg

 

img006.jpg


************************

 

DCA Theats: Jystmystry V's Wescot - I Win (link)

Default Removal: Jystmystry V's NatWest - In Progress (link)

General Debt - Jysmystry v's Optical Express (link)

 

You can run but you'll just die tired

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Ok, I have thought about it and i want to be reasonable with them ("don't be, they arn't reasonable with you" I hear you cry) so i'm thinkign about sending them the attached.

 

I want to send them this because they have so far refused to talk to me at all so i have never really had the chance to make them any kind of offer. I'm also happy to give up the bank charges if they accept my first offer as it works out at about the same as if i claimed them back.

 

If they reply negativly then i'll go down the normal route and issue the request for charges back, lba then claim and include default removal as part of my PoC.

 

I'm posting this draft here for a) any comments if anyone is interested and b) just so anyone else going down this same road can see what im doing and how it works out.

 

Enjoy :)

 

Dear Sirs,

 

OFFER OF REDUCED SETTLEMENT, CONDITIONAL ON DEFAULT REMOVAL; ACCOUNT XXXXXXXXXX

I write in relation to the above account.

Please note that until recently this account was placed with your agents Wescot Credit Services LTD. Wescots have now advised me they have returned the account to yourselves and closed their files effectively ending their involvement in the matter.

It would therefore seem, in light of you having no-one else to pass the buck too, that you now have no option but to actually speak to me in a sensible and hopefully constructive manner regarding this account. I must say this is a situation that pleases me as I remain hopefully that we can come to an amicable agreement between our two selves without the need to involve any third parties.

Please also do not mistake this letter as an attempt to avoid payment. I do not seek to avoid my responsibilities towards my creditors in any way shape or form. I do however have a honest and sincere dispute over the amount you state I own and the accuracy of the information you have processed in respect of this. Therefore I withhold any payment on the account whilst this dispute continues, a position I’m sure you appreciate. Further my withholding any payment on the account is, unfortunately, the most effective way to facilitate constructive consideration of the matters at hand.

In essence I wish to advise you this account is in dispute and I would be grateful if you would firstly acknowledge that and secondly voluntarily suspend collection on the account so that we may discuss the matter. No doubt you have several other debt collection agencies ready to follow the same path Wescots did and for the avoidance of doubt I will not hesitate to immediately begin litigation against you to remove them from the issue if that does happen.

Since Wescots have now backed off I have sought legal advice. I have found this helpful as it has clarified that which I always knew to be the case. Before I discuss this further however my advice is to gather from you certain information and I’m advised to do this by a number of complicated sounding statutory methods which I shall go onto.

Before I do so however please allow me to set out for you, in a very basic way, my contention. Quite simply you have defaulted me and I believe you have done so inappropriately, improperly and unfairly and my goal is to do all I can to seek a remedy for that. Without going into the specifics I am aware of several avenues I can take to address this issue. I am however advised to act as reasonably as possible with you at all times and to offer you the opportunity to address my concerns in an amicable way. Therefore I would be grateful if you would consider my background information together with the 2 proposals I outline below:-

In December 2005 I moved house and as part of the mortgage I arranged I borrowed money to consolidate my several minor outstanding debts which included this account, a store card and a student loan. I rang NatWest, cleared the outstanding balance, advised you of my new address and believed the account closed. This is evident as a payment on my account at the time. It would seem however that for whatever reason (likely the application of bank charges and interest from the previous month) the account was not in fact closed but as I had changed my address with you and as no further statements were received at my new address I was unaware of this fact.

I heard nothing more from NatWest until March 2007 when I received a notice of debt collection from Wescot Credit Services Ltd seeking the recovery of an unpaid debt of £XXXX (

The statements you supplied explained the situation. Three payments of £599.96 by Enterprise Rent-A-Car had significantly inflated the almost minimal balance and although one payment was returned the remaining two were not. Those payments were unauthorised, without my knowledge and fraudulent.

I have been in discussions with Enterprise Rent-A-Car and they had confirmed this in writing. I have successfully recovered the payments they had taken and they have passed the matter to the Devon and Cornwall Police who they tell me are investigating the matter. I have correspondence from Enterprise with the finer details if you would wish to see them. NatWest had also significantly inflated the outstanding balance by the repeated application of late payment and over limit fee’s on a monthly basis thereafter.

As I believed the account was cleared, as I did not receive monthly statements from you to advise me otherwise, and as I am the victim of fraud I hope you can agree that it has never been my intention to avoid payment. Indeed, I actively sought to clear this debt in the first instance.

Since that time you have defaulted me. Not being satisfied at simply defaulting me you then proceed to reapply that default each month since August of last year. I think we all know that this is naughty of you. I think you will, if you look at the account, see the extent to which you have applied bank charges to the account both prior to December 2005 (which I have already paid) and following that time and which now make up a large part of that balance.

I think we can also agree that it is possible that, subject to the inevitably protracted test case, those bank charges may be proven to be unlawful. This in turn would invalidate any default notice (which I deny ever having received), significantly reduce the outstanding balance you claim I am liable for and open you up to a claim for recovery of charges already paid.

You are no doubt inundated by such claims and I certainly don’t wish to take up more of your and the courts time then necessary in resolving this matter. Therefore might I suggest the following 2 proposals for your consideration?

1. That I make an immediate payment of £1000 to NatWest in full and final settlement of the account. As part of this arrangement I would surrender any potential for my claiming back any bank charges in respect of this account from yourselves. In exchange and as a gesture of good will you remove all the information you have loaded with the 3 credit reference agencies. Please note I am unable to consider your marking the alleged debt as satisfied and can only consider full destruction of all data.

Or

2. That, assuming you are unable to agree my assessment of the implications of the test case that I make a payment of the full outstanding amount in exchange for your removing all the damaging data loaded with the credit reference agencies. This would however be on the understanding that I immediately issue a claim against you with the County Courts for recovery of all bank charges.

If you are unable to entertain either of the above proposals please advise me at your earliest convenience.

Finally, as I stated earlier, I am advised to exercise various statutory rights in respect of our business with each other with the goal of gathering information I shall need should you respond negatively to my proposals above. In respect of this please note the attached Subject Access Request made under the Data Protection Act 1998 and the statutory request made under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

As regards the Subject Access Request please note that I am satisfied that you have already provided details of the charges you have applied to the account. The purpose of this second request is that I now wish to see everything you hold about me. I am happy for you to omit to send details of the charges you have previously applied.

 

I remain receptive to a response which will allow us to continue to progress this matter. In this respect I look forward to hear from you in due course and in any case within the statutory timescales imposed on you through my requests attached.

 

Yours faithfully

Mr Jysmystry


************************

 

DCA Theats: Jystmystry V's Wescot - I Win (link)

Default Removal: Jystmystry V's NatWest - In Progress (link)

General Debt - Jysmystry v's Optical Express (link)

 

You can run but you'll just die tired

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Right, well they totally ignored that letter and instead passed the account back to Wescots. Wescots made the mistake of ringing me at work. In a way i felt a bit sorry for the poor woman as she ran through her pre-written script of terror: -

 

Her: Hello there, could I speak to Mr jysmystry please?

 

Me: Speaking

 

Her: This is Wescot Credit Services Ltd, we are acting on the behalf of our clients the royal Bank of Scotland regarding an outstand debt of £XXXX. when can we expect payment?

 

Me: Never

 

Her: err, this relates to a NatWest credit card account number 4187....

 

Me: I'll thank you to stop there. You were about to hand out personal information regarding my private financial details on a publically accessible telepohone without having any assurances what so ever that you were in fact talking to Mr jystmysty. This would only add to your continued unlawful activities.

 

Her: errr, ok, what do you mean unlawful activites?

 

Me: Look, ill be honest with you. I'm surprised you have started rining me again, the last time i heard from Wescots you promised me in writing i would never hear from you again on accoutn of the fact that i believed you to be harrassing me, that you failed to provide a credit agreement, that the debt was in despute with your client and that the account is currently subject to legal action.

 

Her: ah, err ok, so i'll need to look at the file.

 

Me: yup, and to be honest once you have read the file i dont expect you to ring me again, if you do I'll refuse to speak to you and request you only contact me in writing.

 

Her: ok, well i'll read the file then, im sorry about this, we have an automated call pick up system and this is showing as a new account for collection, i didnt realise we had already been in touch previously.

 

Me; ah, so they have sent it back to you for collelction again?

 

Her: yes, like i said this is a new accoutn we recieved 2 weeks ago, its showing as make first contact on the calling system, they must have sent this in the last batch for collection.

 

Me: ok, cool, thats interesting

 

Her: so ill read up on the file blah blah

 

Me: Great stuff, thanks bye.

 

She was nice enough like, she was fair and wasnt trying to bully me like they sometimes do. None the less i was felt feeling rather annoyed at Natwest because this means they totally and utterly ignored my last letters. I have now sent them this. I'll get the info and go from there. I really dont want to have to go to court but if they are going to keep on ignoring me like this i see no alternative :(

 

What i did find interesting though was that they have started ringing me at work instead of at home. Previously they were always contacting me at home but this time they are chasign me at work. Whilst this conversation caused my office to fall dead as they all listened in i really dont want to be talkign about this stuff in my office, Its private and i dont want my colleauges knowing i have debt collectors chasing me and these calls always leave me shaking a bit. Not sure if this is natwest giving wescot different contact details for me so they wouldnt realise its the same account or what. Not good though.

 

Dear Sirs,

 

OFFER OF REDUCED SETTLEMENT, CONDITIONAL ON DEFAULT REMOVAL; ACCOUNT XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX

 

 

I write to you today a grown man on the verge of tears such is the frustration and stress you cause me. I am getting married in 9 days time this supposing to be a joyous occasion but being ruined by the continued harassment of your agents yet again! I wish to now explain to you how you make me feel. Not because I expect you to care or reflect on my comments but simply because it will make me feel better!

 

For months now I have been trying to get you to talk to me about this on-going matter and you have constantly and consistently refused to do so! When I write to you you simple pass it to Wescot’s. When I write to Wescot’s they fob me off with rubbish. I am all but immune now to their aggressive phone calls to my employer and to their totally unfounded threats of legal action and of debt collectors visiting me. Unusually however I can appreciate their viewpoint. You have given them an impossible task in collecting this alleged debt and they now, thankfully, recognise this. Every time they return the account to you you send it back to them as a fresh account for collection. I am even becoming friendly with one of their operators and we chuckle over the situation as they explain their automated systems and how this one has “come up again”. I find I have to laugh over this situation sometimes because if I don’t I suspect I will go mad. When you ignore my letters yet continue to pursue this debt through your agents you cause me to feel stressed and harassed. You also breech OFT debt collection guidelines as this account is, and has been for over a year, most firmly in dispute. Your almost unbelievable incompetence absolutely appals me. That you are allowed by the authorities to bully and harass the naïve, the uninformed and the elderly like you do me also appals me. You are wearing me out, I don’t even care about this issue any more, It is the principal that you feel you are able to act in such a cavalier manner without fear of repercussion that frustrates me. I have neither the time nor the patience for your bully tactics, financial blackmail and blatant and complete ignorance let alone your virtually criminal harassment.

 

Whilst venting my frustrations above did indeed make me feel so much better I am well aware that this is not productive so I shall grit my teeth and try to avoid letting my emotions overtake common sense from hereon in. I don’t really feel inclined to attempt to explain this situation further but I feel that if I am not to sink to your lowly level it is necessary, at least in these early stages, to treat you as if you are at least partially capable of empathy or in the alternative have the business acumen to comprehend that the offer I put on the table is the best you will ever see in relation to this matter.

 

I have 1 key issue with you and I want you to discuss this issue with me following on from this letter and pretend that you care what I think about you and I want you to make me feel like a valued customer that you want to help out. This is all I ask from you and until you do so I will withhold all payment on the account. My contention is this. Quite simply you have defaulted me and I believe you have done so inappropriately, improperly and unfairly and my goal is to do all I can to seek a remedy for that. Without going into the specifics (I want to keep some powder dry after all!) I am aware of several avenues I can take to address this issue. I am however advised to act as reasonably as possible with you at all times and to offer you the opportunity to address my concerns in an amicable way. Therefore I would be grateful if you would consider my background information together with the proposal I outline below:-

 

In December 2005 I moved house and as part of the mortgage I arranged I borrowed money to consolidate my several minor outstanding debts which included this account, a store card and a student loan. I rang NatWest, cleared the outstanding balance, advised you of my new address and believed the account closed. This is evident as a payment on my account at the time. It would seem however that for whatever reason (likely the application of bank charges and interest from the previous month) the account was not in fact closed but as I had changed my address with you and as no further statements were received at my new address I was unaware of this fact.

 

I heard nothing more from NatWest until March 2007 when I received a notice of debt collection from Wescot Credit Services Ltd seeking the recovery of an unpaid debt of £XXX and this of course prompted me to seek copy statements from yourselves which I did in April 2007 as the amount was, as far as I was concerned, an extraordinary figure.

 

The statements you supplied explained the situation. Three payments of £XXX by Enterprise Rent-A-Car had significantly inflated the almost minimal balance and although one payment was returned the remaining two were not. Those payments were unauthorised, without my knowledge and fraudulent.

 

I have been in discussions with Enterprise Rent-A-Car and they had confirmed this in writing. I have successfully recovered the payments they had taken and they have passed the matter to the Devon and Cornwall Police who they tell me are investigating the matter. I have correspondence from Enterprise with the finer details if you would wish to see them. NatWest had also significantly inflated the outstanding balance by the repeated application of late payment and over limit fee’s on a monthly basis thereafter.

 

As I believed the account was cleared, as I did not receive monthly statements from you to advise me otherwise, and as I am the victim of fraud I hope you can agree that it has never been my intention to avoid payment. Indeed, I actively sought to clear this debt in the first instance.

 

Since that time you have defaulted me. Not being satisfied at simply defaulting me you then proceed to reapply that default each month since August of last year. I think we all know that this is unfair processing of data on your part. I think you will, if you look at the account, also see the extent to which you have applied bank charges to the account both prior to December 2005 (which I have already paid) and following that time and which now make up a large part of that balance.

 

I think we can also agree that it is possible that, subject to the inevitably protracted test case, those bank charges may be proven to be unlawful. This in turn would invalidate any default notice, significantly reduce the outstanding balance you claim I am liable for and open you up to a claim for recovery of charges already paid. This, combined with my own legal costs in researching and pursuing the claim and the courts discretionary power to award statutory interest and damages would erode away the outstanding balance significantly if not totally and offer me a most favorable scenario.

 

You are no doubt inundated by such claims and I certainly don’t wish to take up more of your and the courts time then necessary in resolving this matter. More importantly perhaps this matter is also one which causes my partner and myself considerable stress and it has so far contributed towards our being unable to acquire a mortgage and move our joint bank account. I also have no great desire to join the multitudes who seek to recover their bank charges as the time involved in doing so will only serve to exasperate the harm already caused to my partner and myself. Therefore I suggest the following proposal for your consideration.

 

 

The offer I place on the table before you is this. I make to you an immediate payment of £XXX (£400 less than they are asking for) in full and final settlement of the account. By my workings this amount is far in excess of the amount you would be due minus the banking charges applied to the account. As part of this arrangement I would surrender any potential for my claiming back any bank charges in respect of this account from yourselves. In exchange and as a gesture of good will you remove all the adverse information you have loaded with the 3 credit reference agencies. Please note I am unable to consider your marking the alleged debt as satisfied and can only consider full destruction of all adverse data.

 

The alternative to this is I begin litigation against you based on the application of unlawful bank charges, unfair processing of data, unlawful processing of data (i.e. continuing to default me each month despite having already defaulted the account 2 years ago) and harassment/financial blackmail. I shall also be seeking damages and costs against you. Think of this what you will, I am as interested in your views as you are in mine. Please however know that I am utterly convinced of my position and I assure you that whilst I shall always welcome an amicable resolution I am fully committed to resolving this matter. How much of your money and my time you want to waste defending against this, whether successful or otherwise, is up to you. I therefore urge you to consider this exceptionally fair offer. I would also point out my legal advise is to make you no offer at all but simply to begin litigation yet I am choosing to offer you this one last olive branch in an attempt to find what dwindling common ground still exists between us.

 

I have no doubt you shall ignore this letter as you have my previous letters as you have proven to be utterly incompetent in every aspect of my dealings with you. Therefore please note that I have also sought legal advice on this specific regard and I am advised to exercise various statutory rights in respect of our business with each other with the goal of gathering information I shall need to build my case against you should you respond negatively to my proposal above. In respect of this please note the attached Subject Access Request made under the Data Protection Act 1998 and the statutory request made under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

As regards the Subject Access Request please note that I am satisfied that you have already provided details of the charges you have applied to the account. The purpose of this second request is that I wish to see everything you hold about me not just the copy statements you have already provided under my original request. I am happy for you to omit to send details of the charges you have previously applied.

 

 

I remain receptive to a response which will allow us to continue to progress this matter. I am also open to your own alternative suggestions for resolution so long as any suggestion you might make includes removal of the default marker and adverse data. In this respect I look forward to hearing from you in due course and in any case within the statutory timescales imposed on you through my requests attached.

 

I have copied this letter to NatWest’s Customer Services Response Unit in the hope they can consider this letter as being sufficient to instigate your formal complaints procedures. If not I would be grateful if they could provide me with a copy of NatWest’s complaints procedure including details of how I can make a formal complaint and details of how and when I can escalate that complaint to the Financial Ombudsman.

 

To summarise I require the following actions from you: -

 

  • Consider and respond to my offer in bold above and advise me of your views;

  • Comply with my enclosed Subject Access Request within the statutory timescale;

  • Comply with my Consumer Credit Act Request within the statutory timescale;

  • Provide me with details of your formal complaints procedure including details of how I might escalate that complaint about you to the Financial Ombudsman Service.

I look forward to your ignoring this letter and passing it to Wescot Credit Services at which time I shall immediately begin litigation against you for the reasons outlined above and against them for harassment.

 

 

Yours Sincerely

 

Mr Jysmystry

 

CC

NatWest Customer Service Response Unit;

NatWest Data Protection Manager

Edited by jysmystry

************************

 

DCA Theats: Jystmystry V's Wescot - I Win (link)

Default Removal: Jystmystry V's NatWest - In Progress (link)

General Debt - Jysmystry v's Optical Express (link)

 

You can run but you'll just die tired

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Why are you wasting your time with them?

Write to the bank telling them to remove the default within fourteen days from receipt of your letter. Failure to do so will result in you taking legal action to have it removed without further notice. And then do it.

You should be in line for a payment of at least 8000 grand if you go to Court.

That should encourage them next time someone writes to them.

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I think that perhaps I had the slightest glimmer of hope that they would care about their customers. Very nieve of me i guess :(

 

I'll wait for the sar and cca. I want to see the agreement and if there is any record of a default notice then i'll send them my LBA and draw up my PoC.

 

I know i'm wasting my time with them. I just have to make sure they really don't give a flop. Plus all this stuff helps when it gets to court. That i endlessly tried to play nice with them and that they ignored me and forced the matter to court and only try to talk to me at that stage isnt going to hurt my cause.


************************

 

DCA Theats: Jystmystry V's Wescot - I Win (link)

Default Removal: Jystmystry V's NatWest - In Progress (link)

General Debt - Jysmystry v's Optical Express (link)

 

You can run but you'll just die tired

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Just to give you an idea if you haven't read RICHARD DURKIN v. DGS RETAIL LIMITED+HFC BANK PLC, 26 March 2008, Sheriff J K Tierney

you will find that apart from any other considerations, if the default was wrongly placed then the minimum compensation according to that Judge is £8000 [see section 121].

Tell them that you will be invoking the Durkin case if they don't act and then they can't say they haven't been warned.

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Guest Old_andrew2018

Would quoting the above case in claimes be useful in England and Wales.

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Even though Scots Law is different, things such as compensation are much the same and would be used as a yardstick in an English Court. It may well be that a slightly higher charge may be suggested especially for the South East. And the Consumer Credit Act is the same North or South of the border.

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This is really helpful info. Ill be looking into this. They really would be mad to run the risk if this superseeds the previous default compo cases :)

 

thanks bud


************************

 

DCA Theats: Jystmystry V's Wescot - I Win (link)

Default Removal: Jystmystry V's NatWest - In Progress (link)

General Debt - Jysmystry v's Optical Express (link)

 

You can run but you'll just die tired

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They do keep updating them. I believe it was around £100 back in Victorian times so the figure is probably about right.

Westcot may not have issued you with a default notice which would compound their problems since that would make the default invalid regardless of whatever other reasons you may have for dispute.

 

You could be in a position to get the default removed, the debt repaid and

a tidy sum in your pocket too. Just needs a letter...................

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By way of an update had 3 letters, nothing exciting really..

 

From Wescots: -

 

Regarding our recent phonecall of XXXXX please accept our apologies for this. It was passed to us as a new account and treated by our operaters as such. We have again closed this account on our systems and you will not be contacted again by ourselves in relation to this matter. I hope this resolves the situation to your satisfaction, if not please do not hesitate to contact us on...

 

Which obviously i'm pleased with. then from NatWest i got the standard acknowledgement of the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) shortly follwed by a request for the exact date and time of my phonecalls to them if i want transcripts along with a reminder that not all phonecalls are recorded.

 

Im ignoring this stupid request. It hardly seems reasonable for them to only release transcripts if i can remember the date and exact time of the call!!! Idiots methinks!


************************

 

DCA Theats: Jystmystry V's Wescot - I Win (link)

Default Removal: Jystmystry V's NatWest - In Progress (link)

General Debt - Jysmystry v's Optical Express (link)

 

You can run but you'll just die tired

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So, I've only gone and gotten that default removed haven't I!!!

 

I met a guy whilst out on the razz who was a natwest bank manager in a nearby branch. Told him how much I hated Natwest, he asked why, I explained and he gave me some great advice. Go into your local branch, tell them you have been a victuim of credit card fraud (which I had) and they HAVE to speak to me about it - blanket policy.

 

So I did, went in, cried fraud got an hour meeting with the main branch manager. Explained my situation, said i'd been endlessly ignored and that i felt the default was unfair and unrepresentative and that my only recourse now was legal action.

 

She rang client support and insolvancy who told her to get me to write to them with all the details and my evidence which i did (even got it sent in Natwests interbranh internal mail).

 

Got a "we are investigating your complaint - will get back to you in 10 days" letters then got another letter this week saying return your account to a nil balance and we'll remove the default and all the adverse data.

 

I paid them, the default is gone. Its like I never had an account with them!

 

As an extra bonus I now have a much much simpler bank charges claim which will be a breeze compared to this one!

 

2 years of writing long and boring letters that they endlessly ignored and good old face to face chat with my bank manager sorted it all out in less than a month.

 

My case was a bit unusual in that i had clear mitigating circumstances as I was defaulted due to fraudulent transactions however they had not issued a default notice, there were £1200 of bank charges and I could prove i'd changed my address with them get they never changed my address ont heir systems thus i never knew about the debt but if you have a good case against the default like i do definatly go speak to your local bank manager - worked absolute wonders for me :)


************************

 

DCA Theats: Jystmystry V's Wescot - I Win (link)

Default Removal: Jystmystry V's NatWest - In Progress (link)

General Debt - Jysmystry v's Optical Express (link)

 

You can run but you'll just die tired

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